Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World Council of Arameans (Syriacs)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. No support for deletion. Renaming the article can be discussed on the article talk page. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 00:11, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

World Council of Arameans (Syriacs)

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I could not find any in-depth, intellectually independent coverage of this organization as required by WP:NORG. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  13:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  13:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:48, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:48, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:48, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Comment. In order to be preserved, this article should be improved significantly, since there is enough information on the subject, published in various peer-reviewed publications: I could add some of those sources, but the present state of this article would require additional improvements. The organization in subject is of some interest to researchers who are working in the field of ethnic and religious studies related to the modern Near East, particularly since it became one of the main proponents of radical "pan-Aramean" policies. Sorabino (talk) 21:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Google Books Search for the Syriac Universal Alliance
 * Google Scholar Search for the Syriac Universal Alliance
 * Google Scholar Search for the World Council of Arameans
 * Looking through these results I see mostly passing mentions which don't count for notability. Would you mind posting the top 3 sources which give in-depth coverage of the organization? I'm happy to withdraw the deletion request if there turns out to be something I missed. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  21:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hm, how did you manage to assess all of those sources just in three minutes? Sorabino (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I looked through them already before nominating the article for deletion. The one source that looks like it might count for notability is this one but WP:NORG specifically requires multiple sources that give significant coverage. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  22:13, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Is your attempt to delete this article on the main international organization of Arameans (Syriacs) connected with your recent removals of referenced terms "Aramean Genocide" and "Syriac Genocide" from the lead of the Seyfo article? Sorabino (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   13:59, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Aramaeans or Syriacs are an Eastern Christian denomination. They will have been one of a number of millets (quasi-ethnicities) within the Ottoman Empire.  Along with the better known case of Armenians, they were subject to persecution during WWI, often claimed to be genocide, because the Turks considered that (as non-Muslims) they would be disloyal.  A result of this is that like other Christian millets, they have a diaspora.  This is clearly an attempt to create a multi-national umbrella organisation for this diaspora.  As such, I cannot believe it is NN.  Questions of sourcing and citations are matters for editing, not deleting.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:41, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Er, actually, organizations aren't considered notable unless they've received sufficient independent coverage. This organization's notability is separate to the notability of Arameans/Syriacs as an ethnic group or diaspora. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  19:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Based on the sources, it seems to me that organization is question is quite notable, both within the Aramean community and also internationally. Its activities are also covered in peer-reviewed works, but the main problem with the article remains: currently, it is poorly sourced, and needs much improvement. It should be kept, and improved. Sorabino (talk) 12:38, 6 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep -- Since nobody else did, I rewrote the article and added some referenced content. Now it is much clearer that the organization in question is notable enough to have an article, and it seems to me that its content is now brought to a basic level. It can be improved further, if someone is interested to do that. Sorabino (talk) 12:44, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This article should be kept. The organization in question has cooperated with the United Nations and the Council of Europe, and I added some referenced content on those subjects. Sorabino (talk) 07:47, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep, if only as a target article for all the redirects of members's pages who are not independently notable. Bearian (talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That is an useful proposal. Instead of creating several minor articles on member-associations within WCA, basic information can be provided within "Membership" section of the WCA article. Sorabino (talk) 01:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment. Activities of this organization, including its public presence on the internet, have been the subject of a special case study in this work: Vanessa V. Dos Santos (2017): "The effect of frame and format on online engagement: Shares, followers & donations for an NGO by social media", Master's thesis, University of Twente: Faculty of Behavioural, Management & Social Sciences. The very fact that that there is a master's thesis on the internet presence of this organization should be taken as an indication of the notability of this article and its subject. Sorabino (talk) 02:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Masters' theses are usually not reliable sources for Wikipedia. See WP:SCHOLARSHIP. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  02:28, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If those scholars from the University of Twente assessed that this organization and its public presence on the internet are notable enough to be the subject of a special case study, it would be unusual for us here to delete this article, that exists since 2008, and had been significantly improved since this deletion process was initiated. So far, I do not see any support for the deletion of this article among users who took part in this discussion. Sorabino (talk) 02:41, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 14:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to World Council of Arameans. Explaining the keep: article meets the WP:GNG. Explaining the rename: Clarifying words in organizational titles (words in brackets) should not be copied into our titles. gidonb (talk) 00:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion regarding that additional word in the title (Syriacs), it seems that the word in question is part of the English title of that organization, but the title of article itself could be simplified, if necessary. In official documents of that organization, and other sources (documents of UN, EU, Council of Europe) the title is given in its full scope as "World Council of Arameans (Syriacs)". Sorabino (talk) 03:48, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep and rename to World Council of Arameans. Djflem (talk) 19:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.