Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World Indoor Football League (2007)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was The result was keep all. -- moe.RON   Let's talk  18:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC) (non-admin closing)

World Indoor Football League (2007) and teams
Non-notable football league, I only got about 900 direct google hits. I been prodding several of these semi-pro leagues, but unlike them, all the articles on the teams has been created as well. The other pages listed on this AFD is Augusta Spartans, Columbus Lions, Daytona Beach Thunder, Osceola Ghostriders, Carolina Bombers, Charleston Sandsharks, Rome Renegades, and World Indoor Bowl. Delete all Jaranda wat's sup 23:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. Big  top  23:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Wikipedia has lots of articles about professional sports ventures, minor baseball leagues, defunct hockey leagues, etc., and, believe it or not, there is an entire subculture of "sports historians" who keep track of this stuff. Probably the articles about the various teams can safely be deleted, but even this venture is notable enough to be kept.  The Javan Camon incident, where the player died on the field, was national news.  This is an existing organization, which makes this a strong keep.  If it were defunct, it would probably still need to be kept. Mandsford 00:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a semi-pro arena football league though, even less than a minor league, the defuct hockey leagues article were minor league hockey leagues, not semi-pro ones. Several semi-pro leagues has been deleted before I remember, the league is only known for the death of the player (about half of the google hits were on his death), and the league reliable sources only come from his death and from the team site so finding Reliable sources for the league is a issue. It's not a completely professional league, and WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS isn't a valid keep agruement. Jaranda wat's sup 01:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete - I looked through their site and found that player salaries are "$250. Per game plus $50. Win bonus". I think this tells a lot about the notability of the league.  Corpx 01:57, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep based on all the media coverage Corpx 17:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry not convinced, half of them are from the 1988 league that never played, and should be deleted as well. The rest involves the death of that football player, and one sentence headlines on the local newspaper. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. For sources, go to this page on OurSportsCentral.com   It has plenty of sources for the World Indoor Football League.  And Jaranda still hasn't answered my question about deleting the other indoor football leagues. Tom Danson 15:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:N and WP:CRYSTAL, per the article this is about four teams that began play in 2007. Not sure if WP:SPAM applies but it's close.  Jeepday (talk) 03:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep I don't see any reason whatsoever to delete any of the minor league sports material on Wikipedia, and the arguments above don't sway me. The entries are useful for research into the hobby.  I'd further suggest that, if anything, World Indoor Football League should redirect to the 2007 league, since the 1988 proposed league never even played. HipsterDad 19:04, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't minor leagues though, it's semi-pro, it's much different Jaranda wat's sup 19:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's just about the finest example of hair-splitting I've ever seen.HipsterDad 00:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep The players of course are not notable, but that does not mean the teams are non notable. There are tens of thousands of such instances: a company is notable, but not all the executives; a school, but not the students. This is on the same level as much similar recreational material. DGG 20:21, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Even semi-pro leagues can be notable, such as the Empire Football League; if this one were defunct, I could understand, but there's no indication that it's insolvent. Sports, as with television, recorded music and other entertainment, has a lower threshhold of notability or encyclopedic content than other subjects in Wikipedia.  Mandsford 20:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep If you're going to delete this, then why not delete Continental Indoor Football League or American Indoor Football Association? While you're at it, how about Intense Football League?  (The WIFL is as notable as all these other leagues).  Better yet, why not the National Indoor Football League or the Eastern Indoor Football League (The WIFL is much more professional than these two.)  This AfD is pure nonsense. Tom Danson 01:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep The league exists, played all of its scheduled games in 2007, as well as its playoff & championship games. I don't understand why it is even being considered for deletion.  The fact that it is a legitimate entity should be enough to warrant its place here on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dubs1964 (talk • contribs)  — Dubs1964 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. ,
 * Strong Keep This league actually has slightly higher pay than every league that is considered lower than the AFL, including af2, so you can throw out that issue. Also, 3529 people showed up at the championship game. You don't see that many people attending semi-pro football games. You have a different view of semi-pro than a majority of minor league sports fans, who consider pay-to-play leagues semi-pro. I think that should be taken into context, as most of your argument consists of saying that the article should be deleted because the league is semi-pro by your definition. TNT44 5 July 2007
 * Keep League and teams have satisfied notability requirements. Alansohn 03:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Among indoor leagues, this is one of the more well-run ones. Although they started with 4 teams, this league will likely have more teams next year.  One final suggestion is when checking for information on sports leagues is to look at individual teams.  Many times the teams will get coverage in local newspapers or local news and rarely will the league they play in be mentioned.  Below the major league level, you will find teams are generally independent of their league and switch leagues.  I can tell by your deletion request you haven't attempted this.  I did a google search for one team (Columbus Lions) and got more responses that don't mention this league (I only checked 2 pages though).Mateinsixtynine 06:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: In addition, of the 6 team pages in the articles for deletion, 5 were teams that played in other leagues.  This should prevent those from being deleted and suggests also the person nominating didn't research the AfD very well.  As for the article on the World Indoor Bowl, I think this could be deleted as it offers nothing special that can't be contained in the main WIFL article.Mateinsixtynine 11:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep I suspect that many of those in the "Delete" camp are misinformed regarding the sport of indoor football, and its business model; allowing prejudices about what constitutes "real" football to cloud judgement. Do some research first, please. monkeythong 5 July 2007
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 12:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep The sport is legitimate and is notable. Dagomar 04:11, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep It is an upstart organization with history. The number of Google hits should not justify deletion.  Mark @ DailyNetworks   talk  12:49, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I have read the league's website. It is a viable league that completed all of its games. Unfortunately a player died on field during the season and they got some publicity from that. However, seeing as it is a currently functioning league, albeit a 'minor' league, there is no reason to delete it. Defunct leagues still have pages on Wikipedia, and there are those of us who have an interest in minor league sports that appreciate having this as a resource to find information that would not be easily found elsewhere. Also, there are players in these 'minor' football leagues who move up the ranks to the Arena Football League, or even the NFL. Definitely keep this article. Steve C
 * Keep all. The teams are notable, doubly since some of them came over from other leagues. Could the league's article do with improvement? Likely, but that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As far as it being minor/semi-pro, the standard for notability in the English soccer system went further down the line than this league did. —C.Fred (talk) 01:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I cover one of the teams in this league for the local paper. These teams are not "semi-pro", they are professional in every sense -- they are paid to play football. The WIFL was a 4-team league in 2007 only out of business necessity, it will be expanding to at least 6 teams in 2008. The Osceola Ghostriders averaged over 1,000 fans a game, which was probably the lowest of the 4 teams. As a member of the National Indoor Football League (now THERE's a league begging for deletion) they had an owner who didn't pay the players for all their games in 2005 and had a league commissioner essentially throw them out of the playoffs in 2006 when Osceola's ownership called bull$@#% on the NIFL. There were no stories of that in the WIFL, which will build on its impressive first-year endeavor. The WIFL is more legitimate than leagues that have pages that you overlook for deletion. Jaxen 9-9-07
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.