Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/XVII International Chopin Piano Competition


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:58, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

XVII International Chopin Piano Competition

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Not notable per WP:N. The only reference on the page links to the hosts website and a search through Google has brought up nothing in terms of reliable, third party sources. Skamecrazy123 (talk) 01:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  Everymorning   talk to me  02:01, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  Everymorning   talk to me  02:01, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. I found a few sources describing the preliminary competitions, for example the Australian qualifier and the Paris qualifier and the One American qualifier and Another American qualifier, the Canadian qualifier etc.  The fact that this is a regularly scheduled, notable event, it does not seem unreasonable that Wikipedia should have an article about the event.  We have plenty of sources to flesh it out, the competition itself is generally considered notable, as Wikipedia has an article on the event itself in general, International Chopin Piano Competition.  While currently there's not much about the event, it seems like a waste of time to delete an article for a few months, only to recreate it later.  -- Jayron  32  02:05, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * If that is the case, then would it be ok to move it into draft space until the event has occurred? --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * You do what you gotta do. I wouldn't object, but now that you've started this AFD, there's going to be a lot of people who want to comment and who would be short circuited by your pre-emptive action.  Moving this to a draft would be fine by me, but you've just invited all of Wikipedia to comment.  You should probably wait to see what others say.  I don't have any objection, but I am one out of  users at Wikipedia, so my opinion only counts as much as any one of them.  Perhaps you should wait until this AFD is complete before making any unilateral action.  I'd support that idea, however.  -- Jayron  32  02:13, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 02:16, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica1000 03:56, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi. I have some comments regarding the deletion. In my world this is a definite keeper. Here's why:

1. References Alas, the only reference comes from the hosts website. But as with most future competitions, this sadly usually is the case. As we go into 2015, many of the enlisted qualifiers will appear. Trust me. Then we will have several sources (the host, home pages of the performers, newspapers, classical websites, etc). The fact that the arranger is the only source is simply because no one has qualified yet. So patience, please.

2. The size of the event In classical music there are probably thousands of different music competitions in the world. In piano, probably around a hundred (not counting the tiny ones). Some of them are quite new, some quite old, some arranged every single year, and others more or less when the host "get around to it". In Norway alone (just over 5 million people) we have several piano competitions, most notable the new International Edvard Grieg Piano Competition (don't look for it on Wikipedia - it doesn't exist). There are bunch of competitions in honor of pianists, such as the Gould, the Richter, the Rubinstein, etc. Counting the legendary ones, you have in Russia the Tchaikovsky, in Hungary the Liszt, in USA the Van Cliburn. But the truly epic one is in Warsaw: Here you have a competition that takes place every five years, and has done so since 1955. It is in the memory of the "pianist's composer", and is one of very few competitions where performers must play exclusively pieces of Chopin. Some of the greatest pianists (here we can argue, of course!) have set foot in the Chopin: Argerich, Pollini, Zimerman, Uchida - the list goes on. It's an event in not only classical piano music, but in classical music as a whole.

3. To conclude What I find truly interesting about the deletion issue, is that this never ever would occurred in the case of sports. No one would even dare to put a deletion tag for (say) the FIFA World Cup 2022. Or even the 2026 Winter Olympics. And neither should they. This is Wikipedia, and we all know that these huge events will take place in these respective future years. But now you're suddenly telling me that the Chopin competition in one - 1 - years time doesn't deserve an article? Because of the missing third party sources? In the wiki article for the 2026 Winter Olympics we find lots of sources, sure. But what are they all saying? Simply that this and that country have placed this and that bid for the competition. In the Chopin Competition the sources are lacking because they aren't needed. The event always takes place in Warsaw every five years … because it always takes place in Warsaw every five years.

Best regards, Thuen (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In answer to the comments raised above:

1 - My personal opinion is that, if the consensus here is keep, then I will propose that the page be moved into your draft space until such times as these sources you have claimed to appear, appear (I believe it should have been kept there in the first place, but that is largely irrelevant given its introduction into main space). It is, however, worth noting that the pages for earlier competitions have only the host page as their source. What happened to the references from the home pages of performers, etc etc?

2 - The size of the event is irrelevant as far as its inclusion on Wikipedia is concerned (see WP:GNG)

3 - The sources are needed if this article is to stay. Simple as that. As to comparisons between the World Cup and this competition as far as deletion goes, you can discuss it further on my talk page if you wish, but I will not be drawn into debate over it at this venue, where it has no relevance to the discussion.

--Skamecrazy123 (talk) 02:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Then you do what you (and others) choose. I have said what I wanted to say, but after reading the WP:GNG you do make a point. I'll rewrite the article after the event takes place next year (with complete final score, sources, etc). Regards, Thuen (talk) 18:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep for the same reasons we keep articles on near-future sporting competitions and political elections. This is one of the most notable music competitions and we may be confident it will take place as scheduled. It's precisely the kind of event that WP:CRYSTAL specifies as appropriate for a Wikipedia article. ReverendWayne (talk) 03:01, 22 November 2014 (UTC)


 * To me, the sources say otherwise. I have found no reliable third party sources at present, and none of the articles on previous competitions provide any. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 11:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
 * This remark from Jayron32's talk page made me LOL: "Unless you can see into the future and tell me whether or not this competition will definitely go ahead in October 2015, I don't see how it could be anything other than speculation at this point." Speculation? From one of the most legendary music competitions in the world, arranged every 5 years since 1955? Then please let me allow an experiment, Mr Skamecrazy123: I hereby predict the year 2015 will never happen, because it has not happened yet. There you go! I'm still waiting for those reliable third party sources. Thuen (talk) 14:17, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
 * If it was so legendary, then where are all the sources? Why is it only being promoted by the host? As for the sources, I have had no luck in finding any, hence the deletion request. If you can do any better, then I suggest you do so, because sitting here and trying to mock me won't do anything to help. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 15:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no intension in mocking anyone, this is simply an outburst from a lover of classical music (especially piano). I'll make a real effort in answering some of your questions: A good place would be to start with the previous competition, held in 2010. As for the competition's status as a total, Gramophone (founded 1923) writes: "The competition, one of the oldest and most prestigious in the world, was launched in 1927 and is now held every five years." Source: Gramophone Oct 5th 2010. The magazine wrote an article after the competition was finished: Winners. An article from BBC Music Magazine the same year: Avdeeva wins. The article states: "The International Chopin Piano Competition was founded in 1927, and – after the interruption of World War II – has been held regularly every five years since 1955." I can't answer for the sloppy wiki articles about the previous competitions, but promise to do my very best for the 2015 version. Regards Thuen (talk) 17:29, 22 November 2014 (UTC)


 * keep One of the major events in classical music. ( Perhaps it shouldnt be seen as a strict comparison, but considering the     we keep in some more locally popular fields, this is a matter of necessary balance.   DGG ( talk ) 02:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep verbatim as DGG, I'm rather disappointed that this was even nominated. User:Skamecrazy123 do you not have access to a university database or suscriber magazine access? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:13, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * No I don't, and neither does anyone else if the state of sources for this article and others related to it are anything to go by. And before you complain about me jumping straight to the deletion process, I used the resources available to me to try and find sources. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 11:57, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.