Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yair Kless


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Skomorokh 23:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Yair Kless

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Notability not established (using WP:PROF or WP:MUSIC) and there are no sources to verify any claims made. In compliance with WP:BEFORE, the article has been marked as an advert for over 2 years with no sign of any editor being interested in sorting out the fundamental re-write issues. Ash (talk) 15:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:BEFORE is not about you doing nothing but waiting on the sidelines for two years. It is about you searching for sources yourself, before nominating articles for deletion. What effort did you put into doing that? There's no mention of your doing any searching for sources yourself in your nomination.  Don't sit on the sidelines doing nothing and then complain that editors are sitting on the sidelines doing nothing.  This is a collaboratively written encyclopaedia.  See User:Uncle G/Wikipedia triage for the long-standing procedures in this regard.  If you think that something lacks sources, your first response should be to try to find them yourself. It should not be yet more tag-and-wait-on-the-sidelines-doing-nothing, with a deletion nomination. "no sign of any editor being interested" means that you, too, are part of that very problem.  If you think that it's a problem, be the editor who takes an interest.  Writing the encyclopaedia is not Somebody Else's Problem. Uncle G (talk) 14:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I used Google and noticed nothing that would satisfy WP:PROF. Again please direct me to a real bit of WP guidance rather than your user pages if you intend to educate me.—Ash (talk) 19:36, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The guidance is right there, and you have already been pointed to it. It is, as pointed out, policy of long standing.  Read.  Learn.  And put deletion policy into actual practice in your nominations. Uncle G (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't you just leave his dang AFDs alone? You aren't helping! Joe Chill (talk) 02:37, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  —John Z (talk) 20:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * keep afd is not an improvement process. show it isn't notable or notable, or some other qualifying reason to be here. looks like it could be notable to me.--Buridan (talk) 15:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Interesting point of principle here. Is it the duty of the authors of an article to demonstate its notability or the duty of the deleters to demonstrate its non-notability? What is WP policy? Xxanthippe (talk) 00:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC).
 * Wikipedia policy is Deletion policy. The responsibility is to show either that sources exist or they do not, and it is incumbent upon everyone.  That is the decision criterion, and everyone is supposed to work towards making that decision correctly.  Nominations based upon doing nothing but expecting other people to do something for two years, with no effort on the part of the nominator to look for sources to see how deletion policy applies, do not put that policy into practice.  There is no deadline.  Uncle G (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess this is what you are referring to: "Articles for which all attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed". One might quibble logically that it is not possible to prove that something does not exist as one simply might have failed to find it. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC).
 * (clarification) Reliable sources exist, as shown in a google news search, but as per the nomination text none of these sources address notability as defined by WP:MUSICBIO. Persistent claims by here and now in several AFD's making personal assumptions about me are inappropriate.—Ash (talk) 11:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep: I've just added two refs (sorry not inline cites I'll come back & do later if I remember) which list him as a pre-eminent teacher of violin. If he is not notable as a player (which I believe he is) suggests he is notable as a teacher (WP:PROFESSOR not really relevant, as his notability is in hands on tutoring, not academic) Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As per the original nomination, if you think he is notable but the available sources fail to address WP:TEACHER or WP:MUSICBIO then I am not sure of your argument as he is only known for being a musician and a teacher.—Ash (talk) 20:11, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand me. WP:PROF applies to an academic.  Music teachers are more in the way of instructors - a category for which there isn't an agreed definition of notability.  Therefore, WP:N applies in its general principal, and I'm looking for more secondary evidence.  I also believe he meets notability for WP:MUSIC, I just need to locate the right sources. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have had a close look at the 8 results available at Google Scholar and (excluding the Music Educators Journal which I do not have access to), I agree that there is nothing to support WP:PROF as his mentions are tangential and none is a publication by him.—Ash (talk) 21:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bearing in mind that WP:PROF WP:MUSIC etc are only guidelines, not policies, and that they have to be used with a degree of common sense, I would have said that the posts that he held at the Jerusalem Academy of Music and Dance (previously the Rubin Academy of Music) satisfy criterion 6 of WP:PROF "The person has held a major highest-level elected or appointed academic post at an academic institution or major academic society."  He was head of the academy at one time, and it is a prestigious institution in Israel. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:11, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Head of the Music Academy sounds like a pretty good rationale for notability so long as the sources are clear about it. Well done for working through the detail.—Ash (talk) 22:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

In an odd piece of trivia, it appears that one of the Slovenian musicians in the 2009 Eurovision Song Contest studied under Yair Kless. Oh, the irony. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:16, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Evidence of notability has not been produced. If it is I may change my mind. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC).


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.