Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yeshiva Torah Temimah


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeshiva Torah Temimah

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Sending to AfD for discussion because the PROD tag was removed. Does not appear to have sufficient notability per our school guidelines. The prod tag was removed because there was allegedly an instructor there at one point who was a suspected pedophile.  Enigma msg  06:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. The aforementioned pedophilia scandal received substantial reliable source coverage; see this version of the article before it was stubbed.  It's part of the history and functioning of the organization, not just information about an individual connected to it, so this is not a COATRACK situation (this appears to have been the rationale for suppressing the information).  The sources mentioned demonstrate international reliable source coverage of the organization, so it satisfies WP:ORG.  The article should cover more than the pedophilia scandal, but that's a reason for article editing, not deletion.  Baileypalblue (talk) 06:53, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —Cunard (talk) 07:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. As per Baileypalblue's comment. Extremepro (talk) 08:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - multi-campus school backed up by reliable sources. TerriersFan (talk) 17:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment In that case, this article needs to be rewritten entirely per WP:UNDUE and WP:COATRACK. Any volunteers?  Enigma msg  00:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have done some editing, and I encourage others to join in as well. Baileypalblue (talk) 20:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as meeting V and N, but with an encouragement to expand the article to non-controversy related material. Per WP:NNC we don't have to limit the article to solely what's covered in reliable sources. Jclemens (talk) 23:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep because it is a very notable established Haredi yeshiva in Brooklyn worthy of an article on its own positive merits. True, unfortunately, it has been the place where there has been a problem with dealing with allegations of sexual misconduct by a teacher and a subsequent cover-up, but that is not what makes the yeshiva notable nor important as a yeshiva per se. Similarly, Dallas is not notable only because JFK was shot there! But it is obvious that looking at the editing history of the two users here who have worked on portraying only negative information, and  that they themselves may well be bordering on a number of problematic behaviors that need to be monitered more closely such as WP:NOTSCANDAL; WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND and WP:LIBEL and due to the limited and identical nature of their edits they may well also be in violation of WP:SOCKPUPPET. Scandals and legal problems are interesting but while they may make for good yellow journalism it is not the same thing as writing and building a reliable WP:NPOV encyclopedia. IZAK (talk) 06:38, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I noticed that somebody on the article talk page has suggested splitting out the sexual abuse controversy to its own article, presumably as a way of reducing the weight it is given in this article. I don't support this -- I don't think the subject merits its own article -- but I thought I'd mention it here, while we have a quorum.  Baileypalblue (talk) 10:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Baileypalblue: Seems the suggestion was made by an anonymous editor who simply wanted to move out controversial stuff. It's a bad idea and the only ones who would gain from it are the POV-warriors who are out on a rampage to create as much negative PR about Orthodox Judaism as they can. If anything, the story about the sex offender allegations should be shrunk down to a size that does not make it appear that the entire yeshiva's claim to fame is because one teacher and its principal were accused of wrong-doing. Suicides, rapes, prostitution, harrasments and murders happen with students on almost all secular college campuses over time, but that is not what makes them notable educational institutions. IZAK (talk) 13:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment This is clearly going to result in a Keep, but I will not withdraw it because the article needs to be discussed and I'm afraid it won't be discussed further if this AfD is closed.  Enigma msg  17:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.