Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yesterdays (band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 19:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Yesterdays (band)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I don't see any evidence of third-party, reliable sources covering this band. There are few Google hits (Yesterdays +Bogáti-Bokor gives just 400. All the external links are commercial sites, self-published ones, blogs and things of that sort: no newspaper articles, for instance. Biruitorul Talk 17:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak delete in the absence of sources. I'd have rather seen the article tagged for improvement of the references first. Since they're a Hungarian band, there could be language and transliteration issues with searching for online sources. That said, if reliable sources turn up, my recommendation will likely switch to the keep side of the equation. —C.Fred (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. The nominator's reasoning is faulty. The number of google hits is irrelevant. It is the quality of the hits that matters. And both external links and references can be commercial (most are) or blogs. It's quite likely the reliable sources are in Hungarian or Romanian which requires someone who actually knows those languages to make the evaluation. - Mgm|(talk) 20:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree the quality of the hits is relevant. As it happens, those hits are of unacceptably low quality: MySpace, YouTube, blogs and the like. Per WP:SPS, blogs are actually not acceptable: "self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, knols, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable". Per WP:V: "If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." Once those are adduced, I'd even be happy to withdraw this nomination. That has yet to happen. I was unable to find much in Romanian on this band, but I've asked a Hungarian editor to see if anything is available in his language. -- Biruitorul Talk 21:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Seems notable. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to sound abrasive, but notability is established through reliable sources, not through "seeming" notable. (See also WP:JNN.) -- Biruitorul Talk 01:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Based on the sources I could find and the information in the article I think it's notable based on Wikipedia guidelines. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Biruitorul, please visit the listed Reviews and you will find that there are many reliable resources. Please put away your feelings about the Hungarian minorities in Romania (I strongly have the feeling that your submission for deletion is something personal... please look at the relevance of the hits, or read the reviews which are published on very reliable websites... Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 11:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And let's not forget, that Progarchives (www.progarchives.com) is the best and the most reliable source for progressive rock music on the internet! Here's a quote from their Yesterdays entry:
 * "About six months ago, I heard YESTERDAYS for the first time, and was really impressed with the exquisite combination of 70's Symphonic influences with Hungarian folk elements, so after I asked the team, the addition was approved immediately."
 * So, I don't see why this submission for deletion is relevant (if there aren't any personal issues of course...). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 12:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't checked the full history of the page, but Progarchives does not have an entry on the English Wikipedia. That calls into question its prominence as a source, but not necessarily its reliability. Also, please keep the discussion on the article, the underlying subject, and the related sources; this discussion is not the place for discussion or personal attacks regarding any involved editor. —C.Fred (talk) 12:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that comment, C.Fred, and just to clarify: it seems preposterous that when I nominate an article for deletion for its failure to have reliable sources, that somehow would translate into my "feelings about the Hungarian minorities in Romania" -- which I have neither stated nor have any relevance whatsoever to this nomination. 86.105.122.11, please do review WP:AGF before repeating such a charge. -- Biruitorul Talk 15:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Long comment to assess the reviews. I just hit the about page for each review's website, and:
 * Arlequins is an Italian fanzine dating back to 1990. It has a strike against it for being a fanzine, although it is a long-standing one.
 * Musearecords.com is the band's website label and is not independent.
 * DPRP is a website dating back to 1995 and maintained currently by a staff of 16 editors.
 * Progressor is an official representative of Musea Records in Russia, so its independence is questionable.
 * Music in Belgium is unclear. I can't find an FAQ document on the site.
 * ProGGnosis likewise lacks an explanation.
 * Progarchives appears to be fan-edited, which generally fails the reliability test.
 * Babyblaue appears to have evolved from a maillist, which would put it in the realm of non-reliable and fan-edited.
 * In my opinion, DPRP meets the editorial rigor standard that goes along with WP:RS and the general notability guidelines, and I'll give Arlequins the benefit of the doubt. —C.Fred (talk) 12:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I must correct You, Musea Records is not the band's website, please check it again. The band's website is www.yesterdays.hu Musea is a well known French record label, dedicated to the promotion of Progressive Rock. Since we are talking about progressive rock (which is not a popular musical style), resources and articles are very hard to find. Musea - in my oppinion - is a very reliable reference (since they only promote quality music... just have a look on their website...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 12:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My bad. Musea is their label. Same issue with independence, though. —C.Fred (talk) 17:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If we are talking about their article about the band, You are right. But if you are familiar with progressive rock music labels in Europe (Inside Out is the bigest, Musea is the second one and has a big reputation all over the World) than for a band is a very serious reputation being released by Musea and this is why I consider this a reliable reference for the band.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 14:00, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that Musea isn't reliable. I said that, for purposes of the general notability guidelines, Musea isn't independent. —C.Fred (talk) 15:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak/provisional keep. The DPRP and Arlequins coverage are sufficient to keep the article around—at least for now. After their second album is out, I'd like to see more independent coverage of the band. If the second album doesn't happen, and if the article doesn't evolve from its current state, then another AfD would be warranted (though not for at least six months to a year, IMHO). —C.Fred (talk) 12:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Note I don't really have time now to look into this very much. After a quick search I've found an online available interview with them on HirTV (basically the Hungarian Fox News, or conservative CNN if you wish). Squash Racket (talk) 16:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * After a little google research I found 4 other resources (in Hungarian) about the band (I will continue to look after more articles):
 * - on a Hungarian Art Portal (based in Hungary) about the MiniProg Festival 2007 in Budapest (featuring ex-Yes guitaris Peter Banks)
 * - in a Romanian Newspaper called "Szabadság" (some thoughts/report after a Yesterdays gig)
 * [] - a long interview after Yesterdays released its first album in 2006 on Romania's most important political/cultural portal www.transindex.ro (in Hungarian)
 * [] - some photos from a Yesterdays gig in 2007, on the Félsziget Festival's website (one of Romania's bigest rock festivals) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 23:17, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * and some more:
 * [] - a very long interview in English in the German Progressive Newsletter
 * [] - a review about Progfarm Festival 2006 (The Netherlands) including Yesterdays - in Dutch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.105.122.11 (talk) 23:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.