Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yu Cai Middle School

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. ugen 64 21:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yucai high

 * del non-notable high school. Mikkalai 04:22, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as woefully incomplete two-sentence nanostub by non-native speaker. - Lucky 6.9 05:48, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC) Changing vote to keep the rewritten version.  Still stubbish, but I'm convinced there's enough online info available to justify keeping it. - Lucky 6.9 07:38, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, a school that is notable by nature. This article needs some more Organic Growth. Is there a board of chinese wikipedian's who might be able to work on this article? The article should also be moved to Yu cai High School. Klonimus 07:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it looks like organic growth is not going to be allowed in this case. Kappa 20:29, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Kappa, if you feel this article passes the Toowoomba Grammar School test, then list in on User:GRider/Schoolwatch. Klonimus 16:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, schoolcruft. Megan1967 08:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - BEEFSTEW score of 0. Thryduulf 10:15, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not to invalidate your vote, but under the latest revision this article achieves a BEEFSTEW score of 6 (items A, B, D, F, H, and J) and still holds a great potential. &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 09:32, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * keep notable high school. What gave you the idea this was non-notable? Kappa 10:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Who gave you the idea that an average high school is notable? There should be a solid proof. Why teaching music makes in notable? What is "Yu cai" in Chinese? there may be plenty of reasons that the schools were named "yu cai". For all I know from Chinese, i.e., less than zero, it may mean "comprehensive school" or something. The article is useless as it is. Its existence in this form is bad precedence to pump millions of high, middle, secondary schools over the world without sufficient reason. With all due respect to the education system. Mikkalai 15:25, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Being founded as an experiment by a famous educator makes it notable, or at least important to the history of education in China, although I don't suppose wikipedia has any ambition to cover that. He only founded half-dozen or so schools. "Yu Cai" (&#32946;&#25165;) means something like "cultivate talent". Thanks you for clarifying that this important school is being deleted in order to prevent the addition of other schools. Kappa 19:19, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * All schools are worthy of inclusion into a truely great encyclopaedia. Klonimus 16:19, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Please don't confuse the notions of deleting an article and disallowing an article. Many people believe that bad stubs actually do more harm that no stub at all. Please think what will person learn about thye school fom the text. If it is prominent, it must have a prominent article. Otherwise a person reads the article, just like me, and shrugs: "why is so much fuss about this school?" As for amition, no reason to be so pessymistic. If you care much about the subject, please drop a notice at the China-related topics notice board. If they will not address your concern, then alas... Mikkalai 20:04, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * They will learn that it was built by a prominent educator during wartime in a partially occupied country, and they will get some idea of the theories he was testing, and how influential it was. How can wikipedia grow if everything has to be created as a full-size article? Kappa 20:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I fully sympathize with your bitterness. I myself tried to defend a couple of miserable articles about things that looked important to me. But so far even the referenced link don't impress. From the link I see that it was one of numerous Tao's schools. From wikiarticle it is even unclear whether the school exists at all now. Google does give some hits, but it is not at all clear what are they. I suppose if I searched in chinese language, I'd got more. That's why I suggested you to talk to the Chinese board. Another issue is verifiability. You cannot base a wikipedia article on a short paragraph from another internet site. As for full-size, please don't overkill. No one requires a 1000 thousand text. Mikkalai 20:53, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This stub does enough to establish notability and proves that the subject deserves to be allowed organic growth. If it wasn't a school, it would be left alone. Kappa 21:09, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The referenced link isn't "a short paragraph on another internet site", it's a paragraph about halfway through a peer-reviewed journal article -- exactly the sort of reference we want. --Carnildo 22:23, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, notability not established. Radiant_* 12:35, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * When a notable band releases an album, that's generally considered notable enough for an article. When a notable author writes a book, that's generally considered notable enough for an article. But a prominent educationalist founding a school... doesn't establish anything. Kappa 21:09, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Not exactly so. We don't have articles for every book, do we? A book establishes the notability of a person. Why don't we start from an article for the undisputably prominent educationalist Tao Xingzhi? If the text about this school in the Tao Xingzhi article will be long enough, no one will forbid you to make it into a separate article. Mikkalai 23:16, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * When an author's book is published, we generally agree that the author is notable - but we list the book in the author's main article unless there's something exceptional about the book. The same applies to schools - they are created by (the government of) a city or town. The city or town deserves an article. I hold that we should list the school in the city's main article unless there's something exceptional about the school. Radiant_* 08:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * If someone writes an article about a book by a notable author, we don't delete it, even if it's a stub and the author doesn't have an article. Also the fact that this is a prototype school not a "copycat" one makes it exceptional, a creative and influential work. Kappa 18:01, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete lots of good reasons already given. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 13:15, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete gibberish, notability not established. --InShaneee 19:08, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No longer gibberish thanks to Kappa, so I took the liberty to strike this out. Mikkalai 23:19, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable school with low BEEFSTEW score. Dave the Red (talk) 19:52, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * del or establish notability. as an experimental school that many others were based upon, it may be notable, but the article as it is fails to establish notability. BigFatDave 23:09, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails to establish notability. Jayjg (talk)  21:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Just "making sure my voice is heard". &mdash;Korath (Talk) 22:09, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * That would be a "delete all schools, even the notable ones" vote then? Kappa 22:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Just the ones where there are attempts to pack the vote. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 22:46, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your honest reply. Kappa 22:50, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. A quick Google search shows at least half a dozen schools named after it, so it seems to have been notable. --Carnildo 22:19, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Lincoln High School gives 123,000 hits, but we have only Abraham Lincoln High School (San Francisco) and don't have the very first one, probably long forgotten. Besides, what makes you think they are named "after it"? "Cultivate talent"-school (see explanations above) may well be a standard buzzword, kind of "Academy of Arts". Mikkalai 23:06, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The source says many schools are named after it. Kappa 00:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * And still another source says that Tao founded Yucai Middle, not High. The article is extremely poor and unconfirmed. Mikkalai 00:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - its a high school, its notable, enough already with these repeated VfD's to make a point. EVEN JIMBO IS AGAINST DELETING SCHOOLS!  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 23:57, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that this school exists at all? Mikkalai 00:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this Vfd was more because it was a substub and may not establish enough notability for people who haven't heard of Tao Xingzhi. Kappa 00:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, and reading unverifiable and contradictory info in wikipedia does not help to learn about nim. Mikkalai 00:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * &mdash;this has gone on long enough. It's OK though, the horse doesn't feel a thing.  &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 01:01, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, only because of the Li Peng connection. -- Dcfleck 03:40, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC)
 * Delete, one notable graduate is not enough. Imagine millions of chinese schools aricles! Oh, the pain! Grue 19:37, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thankfully Wiki is not paper, so that isn't a problem. Klonimus 22:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * How many notable graduates do you need? and would it be better if they were American, not Chinese? Kappa 22:16, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep T h e St ev e  21:20, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * keep as rewritten please Yuckfoo 01:31, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, obviously. --Zero 04:01, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, a notable school in China. -- M P er el ( talk 07:08, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A good encyclopedia article could be written on this subject. This is not it. A good encyclopedia article is not cobbled together from short mentions on a pair of websites. A good encyclopedia article does not leave one with the feeling "Is all of this true?" or "Does this place even exist?" Gamaliel 07:19, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It's a lot better than the first stubs on some very big topics. Oliver Chettle 23:23, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, Ejrrjs | What? 22:46, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - notable -CunningLinguist 02:03, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep There is a place on Wikipedia for schools. --ShaunMacPherson 03:50, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Houshuang 00:59, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.