Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yuval Bronshtein


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 23:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yuval Bronshtein

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non notable poker player. Makes claim to notability via winning 3 FTOPS tournaments thus avoiding CSD, but barely. FTOPS is not a major tournament and only has significance insofar as Full Tilt Poker gives is such credence. In the real world, people don't really care. --- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 15:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Notified WP:Poker about this AfD
 * Speedy delete. Only three Ghits: this article, a link to this article, and a site that only mentions his name in passing. THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL 15:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It might end up being a SNOW close, but there is a claim to significance/importance---won a record three Full Tilt Online Poker Series (FTOPS) tournaments.--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 15:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Did you even look for sources?, , , without even trying.  There are more sources out there: .  I'm getting kind of annoyed at how readily some people nominate articles for deletion when there are easy-to-find sources covering the topic in detail.  Cazort (talk) 19:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And did you bother to look at most of the links listed in 4? Having 37 ghits is not proof of notability, if you looked up my real name, I have over 200 different ghits, and I am not notable.  Half of them are from Bodog (where Yuval is part of their professional team thus the website tries to hype and cannot be considered a RS) or are dead links .  Most of the rest are dealing with other events simply citing starting chipstack  or providing commentary  on the status of a tournament which might give a sentence such as Boatman was the next elimination when he bricked out in Razz against Yuval Bronshtein, leaving in 12th place for £6,562 or The eight players who made the final (Jennifer Harman, Gary Jones, Joe Beevers, Kirk Morrison, Thomas Bihl, Yuval Bronshtein, Alex Kravchenko and Chris Ferguson) had a combined nine WSOP bracelets among them.  (Yuval did not count towards the count, he was simply one of the eight.)  In other words, there is no interest in this guy except for his one accomplishment---winning back to back FTOPS events (as cited in your examples 1-3).  Winning an FTOPS event is not something that people are going to remember or care about.  We are talking about $200 and $500 dollar buy in's in an online tournament.  Winning two back-to-back is a side note, but does not establish this guy as notable.  There are a lot of non-notable poker players who win 200 and 500 events online.  At best this guy deserves a mention in the FTOPS article, not an article on his own.  Oh Wait, the FTOPS is not a notable enough tournament to warrant an article on its own, it is merely an entry on the Full Tilt Poker page. --- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 20:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that if he is on Bodog's team, those sources would not be independent and should not be counted. What about the other sources?  I also agree that the articles just showing him in a list don't establish much.  But here's another article with significant coverage:, and a brief mention in ESPN: .  The ESPN source I presume is reliable.  Another source with some coverage: .  I am willing to discuss more.  I see significant coverage.  In order to be convinced to delete you would need to convince me that the www.gamingalerts.co.uk, www.pokerlistings.com, and www.cardplayer.com sites are not reliable sources.  Cazort (talk) 21:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The only claim to significance is that he won back to back events in the FTOPS. That is what got people to write some articles on him---Full Tilt undoubtably sent out a press release in an effort to garner attention to their non-notable tournament.  Those sources, in turn wrote short blurbs about the accomplishment.  I mean, the tournament where he placed isn't notable enough to warrant an article.  If an article did exist on FTOPS, I would suggest merging this into that article, but can a person be notable for winning something that is non-notable?  I mean, this is much less impressive than many non-notable bands/groups that might get a press release.  It is less notable than the pig farmer who gets a press release for winning the county fair and then the state fair!  Basically everything out there is A) a drive by mention (including the ESPN article which isn't about Yuval, it just happens to mention him) B) by Bodog Poker (or an obvious Bodog Poker release) C) a dead link or D) about this single accomplishment---which got a press release and a few sources wrote short articles about the accomplishment.  None of them are about Yuval.  None of them are substantial about him.  ALL are minor and/or about the event.  There are scores of 200 and 500 dollar online tournaments every week!--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 21:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with your reasoning that if FTOPS is not notable, then this guy is clearly not notable. Also, your concerns of these sources originating as press releases are valid and I think they convince me that these are not reliable sources for arguing notability.  On these grounds I change my recommendation to a delete.  Thanks for being patient with me and thoroughly explaining your points!  Cazort (talk) 22:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Redirect/Merge FTOPS is plainly notable, whether it has a separate article or is part of the Full Tilt article. Whether this guy has enough independant sources or not is an open question (though he very likely does have enough coverage).  However the bottom line is at this point the coverage relates to a single event, so since the coverage involves a single event and is not overwhelming, per WP:BIO1E the article should redirect to the FTOPS section of the Full Tilt article, and content from this article added there.  It clearly is notable in the context of the FTOPS that someone won events back to back. 2005 (talk) 23:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete clear-cut per WP:BIO. Eusebeus (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, and thanks for the exhaustive and civil answers to Cazort Power.corrupts (talk) 09:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.