Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yves Lapierre (civil servant)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After almost a month on AFD there does not seem to be any prospect that another relist will get us closer to consensus. Stifle (talk) 10:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Yves Lapierre (civil servant)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Non-notable French civil servant. Subject fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:NPOL. Of the two sources cited in the article, neither provides significant independent coverage of the subject. The Who's Who entry is misleading. It is not a biographical entry on closer examination. The French language text is primarily about the celebrations of the 20th Anniversary of INPI and not about Lapierre who is only mentioned briefly. Further, it reads like a press release and has no contributing author; which makes me doubt the independence of this source. The other is a publication of the INPI; of which Lapierre is the director. It also lacks independence from the subject. 4meter4 (talk) 02:20, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. AllyD (talk) 07:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: There are a few interviews with the subject regarding his then-role at INPI and passing mentions relative to that role, but I don't regard that organisational role as inherently notable, nor see evidence of attained biographical notability beyond that role. He is mentioned at the National Institute of Industrial Property (France) article in a list (which I have refreshed for subsequent appointees), which could be an ATD redirect target, though the article's bracketed naming makes it an unlikely search term. AllyD (talk) 07:22, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Tentative keep. I have just added a few references, among which one from Le Figaro and another one from Les Echos. I think both newspapers can be qualified as reliable and independent of the subject. --Edcolins (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ I have to disagree. The first article from Le Figaro is a routine announcement of an appointment and doesn't really substantiate anything significant other than he got a job. The second is an interview of Lapierre in Les Echos. As an interview it is directlty connected to the subject and lacks independence. So neither of these would count towards WP:SIGCOV for notability purposes; although they certainly could be used as sources if the article remains. Best.4meter4 (talk)
 * Thanks 4meter4. I don't know whether the article titled "Yves Lapierre à la direction générale de l'INPI" from Le Figaro is a routine announcement, as you wrote. 85 % of the article is behind a paywall. Have you been able to read the remaining 85 % of the article? If so, can you share it? Regarding the article titled "Yves Lapierre Un « manager du défi » à la tête de l'Inpi" from Les Echos, you write that this is an interview, although it is presented as a "portrait", which is basically a detailed "description" of a person. To me, the article from Les Echos is clearly more than an interview. --Edcolins (talk) 16:07, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it's illegal to share content behind pay walls which are protected by copyright from unauthorized distribution. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the issue of independence with the second source. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I am a bit confused. Were you able to read the content behind the pay wall? Edcolins (talk) 16:25, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 08:12, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Why would he not pass NPOL? He was the head of a national government agency and thus held national-level office. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:38, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Incorrect. The INPI is one of many departments inside the Ministry of Economics and Finance (France). Therefore, the head of the agency is the Minister of Economics and Finance who oversees all of the departments and the leaders of each individual department. Being a departmental director over one department inside a large government agency doesn't pass NPOL. 4meter4 (talk) 01:41, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thank you for clarifying. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 02:30, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks Presidentman and 4meter4. The INPI is basically the French Patent and Trademark Office. Thus, it is as important in France as the USPTO in the U.S. I doubt that anybody would say that heading the USPTO is insufficient under WP:NPOL. I think the argument can be made, under WP:BIAS, that the same should apply to the French Patent and Trademark Office. In summary, he held for six years the position of head of the French Patent Office, which is clearly a national office per WP:NPOL. [edited] --Edcolins (talk) 16:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Thanks for comments. Would you mind separating out your vote into a standard format instead of burying it an indented discussion. This helps visually for the closer, and also for later participants in this thread. On a side note, I can't find a single article on a head of the USPTO (except Kathi Vidal who has a more significant role as Under Secretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property) on wikipedia; whose leaders aren't even mentioned in that article. If you are making a cross-comparison it would be helpful to demonstrate we have similar coverage of Americans in that role to bolster your somewhat novel interpretation of NPOL. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 16:28, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I have just moved the "Keep" mention, or more precisely the "Tentative keep", to the "right" place. --Edcolins (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Update, I just found List of people who have headed the United States Patent Office. Which I do think is somewhat parallel post. I will give this argument some more thought. I do note that many of the people in that list were notable for other things already, or after they held that post (including some US Presidents). So its a little difficult to say whether the role itself is notable, or if we have articles because many of the people in this role did other things that made them notable. 4meter4 (talk) 16:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, 4meter4. The recent heads of the USPTO, i.e. Kathi Vidal, Andrei Iancu, Michelle K. Lee, Teresa Stanek Rea, John J. Doll, and Jon Dudas, appear to be notable mainly (or, for some, exclusively) because they headed the USPTO. Edcolins (talk) 16:55, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes... I am actually considering whether or not to take some of these to AFD. The Vidal article for example is largely sourced to non-independent sources (i.e. the US Government), and routine post announcements. If we had secondary sources covering their actual work in the role after they got the job I would be far more likely to view it as a notable post. But it seems like the only time we ever hear about it is when someone is entering and someone is exiting. This is similar to the issue with Ambassadors of the United States where we have now come to a consensus that the role itself is not inherently notable, and we require more than post announcements and exits for an article.4meter4 (talk) 17:03, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.