Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Złota Baba


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Whether the material found by Piotrus should be added to the list he mentions is a matter for discussion by editors of that list.  Sandstein  12:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Złota Baba

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Highly dubious it is a "Polish goddess". The only refs I see are for polish texts about "Golden woman" in Siberia. -M.Altenmann >t 22:40, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - I'm having trouble finding any good English language sources. Unless it gets references it should probably be deleted. NickCT (talk) 23:37, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Slovakia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. The myth was Russian, not Polish, clearly defined in Polish historiography as the Russian roadside attraction in the far north.[] Poeticbent talk 00:30, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment, if it is a Russian idol and not Polish goddess, shouldn't be it re-purposed then? Cleaned up, expanded, and sourced instead of deleted? Renata (talk) 02:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * For that, we would need an actual Russian source confirming that the story was real and not invented by the Polish traveler Maciej z Miechowa who in 1517 mentioned the roadside idol in Latin as the Aurea Anus. The Polish Museum of King Jan III's Palace at Wilanów says that it is impossible to verify anything today. Poeticbent talk 04:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * @Renata: The thing is, there is nothing to "repurpose" in the current article. As for Aurea Anus, I started an article Golden Woman which already exists in wikipedia in several languages, unfortulately, poorly footnoted, so I created a minimal en: stub. In Russian language there is huge amount of texts, but I don't really care to wikipedize the topic. -M.Altenmann >t 04:46, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, for the article (it's exactly what I had in mind). In such a case, a redirect would be best IMHO. Renata (talk) 14:59, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * She appears to be associated with the Laima here; . A modern neo-pagan book seems to claim her as one of their goddesses, identified with Baduhenna and any others. See . Mentioned here but I translated it and barely understand it even then since it is in latin.. I recommend redirecting to Altenmanns article.  JT dale Talk ~ 11:25, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You should know that "modern neo-pagan" books is usually bullshit and at best may be a reference to this bullshit itself, not to historical or ethnographic information. The Latin text quotes Guagnini about Golden Woman, but it is known (and quite seen from this fragment) that he plagiarized Maciej Stryjkowski; the latter used Maciej Miechowita among other sources, and unlike Fletcher, the first two did not bother to indicate sources of their wisdom. But this piece obviously is lifted from Miechowita's. Re "Laima": it is not associated with Laima, it is listed together with Laima. I did see mentions of zlota baba, in similar contexts in old sources about Wendian and Sorbian paganism, which seem to match with your source ("Teutonic Mythology" Jacob Grimm), the latter refers to a Hanusch, I guess, Ignác Jan Hanuš, especially keeping in mind Czech spelling in Grimm: 'zlotá babá'. Anyway, it is hardly Polish baba. -M.Altenmann >t 16:43, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * re:Laima I did find a (quite long) text of Hanuš about 'Zlata-Baba'. He starts from Guagnini's ref 'de idolo Aureae Anus'; then naively asks a rhetorical question how come the Russian name is assigned to a non-russian idol and then proceeds through a long speculation, linking various things: deity Laima (literally, good luck, happiness)=golden-haired lady, 'povivalnaya bab(k)a'="old lady folk obstetrician", counterposing Zlata (i.e., golden, i.e., good) baba against Yaga Baba, i.e., bad baba, and so on, so forth, making up a universal Balto-Slavic deity. In any case, whatever rant he wrote, it is hardly a reliable source by modern scientific standards. -M.Altenmann >t 03:48, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge to the List of Slavic deities. I was going to call it a hoax, but it is briefly mentioned in, through only along the lines that "all that is know about her is that a gooddess with that name was probably worshiped by one particular tribe".  might be more extensive, but the snippet view prevents me from analyzing it more; all I get is "might have been a goddess of the Polabian Slavs - more or less what the prior source stated. So there's something to be said about "Golden Women" being a deity of non-Russian tribes, through the nom is totally right that it also appears in the Russian context. A  gives about a sentence-long description (probably based on a figurine), but attributes it to a Russian (Siberian), not Polish tribe. Ditto for ; both are 19th century sources. So it appears there's enough to confirm this is not a hoax, but it is unlikely the article can every grow beyond a stub (substub) size, and as such I'd suggest merging it to a list or another larger article; this topic doesn't appear to have stand-alone notability due to, well, nobody being able to write more than one or two sentences on this (probably all traced back to a single medieval mention or such). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  14:17, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Allow me to politely disagree. may be is not a hoax in a sense of deliberate deception, but it looks like scientific incompetence. These single-sentence mentions simply mean that the authors didn't know shit; they just blindly copied from each other by a long chain starting ages ago, e.g., from Hanuš (who clearly wildly speculated) or someone else. They even don't mention sources of their wisdom. There is no meaningful information about this "deity". Therefore these blurbs about "zlota baba" at best may be described in wikipedia as "some authors briefly mention the existence of...". -M.Altenmann >t 17:27, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:42 and Altermann. Bearian (talk) 22:23, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.