Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Z-Clan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. \ Backslash Forwardslash / (talk) 05:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Z-Clan

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I originally speedily deleted this article but the author objected on my talk page. The article claims that the group own and administer the most popular Battlefield 2142 "Titan" servers in the world, but the source provided doesn't verify that as far as I can see. ... disco spinster   talk  13:43, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 13:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, just another gaming clan as far as I can see. No coverage in reliable, third-party sources worth speaking of. Stifle (talk) 15:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Errr, no it's not "Just another" gaming clan. Firstly, Z-Clan is a club or cooperative just as there are many on Wikipedia ranging from soccer clubs to boating cluns to strip clubs only doesn't have a physical location and I don't think this should be treated any differently. Secondly, apologies if this is posted either incorrectly or in the wrong place previously. Since this was deleted as it was apparently too verbose for the place I originally posted I have reposted here. I presume this is the correct place.

I created and article in Wiki entitled Z-Clan which was immediately selected for Speedy Deletion with the assertion A7; which I presume alludes to "An article about a real person, individual animal(s), an organization (e.g. band, club, company, etc., except schools), or web content that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant". I have posted on the Talk page of the person who deleted it (DiscoSpinster) requsting an explanation as to why but have yet had no response (I'm not being critcal, I realise that we all have a life and other things to do). Since I didn't have a reply, I posted the following on the Talk page of the Admin BorgHunter and this is his subsequent reply.

Hi BorgHunter Sorry for dumping this on you but with my being a bit of a "Trekky" it serves you right for having a Trekky Username !!!

I'm looking for some advice. I posted an Article which I had written with title Z-Clan with the reason A7; which I presume alludes to "An article about a real person, individual animal(s), an organization (e.g. band, club, company, etc., except schools), or web content that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant". The article was deleted by an Admin named DiscoSpinster. I have left a message on her talk page requesting an explanation and advice but have had no response. The reason that Z Clan is notable is that it is the No.1 gaming group in it's field, it operates and administers the No.1 ranked servers in the world and is the only gaming organisation in the world (again, within it's field) that own and operate servers on different continents.

A few examples of Wiki articles (not related to my Article)I found within a couple of minutes that seem fall well short of A7 and have nothing "Notable" about them are these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Motorcyclists_Alliance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_House_Cruising_Club

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burneside_Clay_Shooting_Club

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racquet_Club_of_Chicago

I'm not saying that these should be deleted at all but there seems to be no consistancy. I can't see anything important or significant in any of these where as Z-Clan Own, operate and administer the top ranked gaming servers in the world and the only ones to do so on 2 continents.

Could you please help me understand what the requirement would be to fullfill this criteria in my instance as it seems, on the face of it a certain amount of

hypocrisy and predjudice with regards to this?

Many thanks

Carlos

Carlosfundango (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

You may have a point that the article, as it was written, didn't really meet the criteria for speedy deletion, though I'm not sure that it wouldn't eventually be deleted for failing notability. Your best bet is to wander over to deletion review and list it there; it might get listed on AfD to give a

chance for comment. —BorgHunter (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I would like the Admins to reconsider the inclusion of this article in Wikipedia on the following grounds that define it's significance and notability.

Z-Clan/Z gaming is not the normal run-of-mill clan/gaming collective formed by a few kids. It's members are professionals whose average age is around 35 and the current eldest member is a retired Admiral in the US Navy who is in his mid 70's. The only "Kids" are those children who are the sons or daughters of members. It currently has a membership of nearly 300 making it probably the largest Clan of its type. The Z-Clan/Z gaming website has between 5000 and 7000 "Hits" per day which is clearly not in the same league as BBC.co.uk or Microsoft.com but is a truly remarkable figure for what it is and demonstrates our sigificance.

Z-Clan/Z gaming was formed in the beginning of 2008 and is thus a mature organisation and very unlikely to disappear in the near future.

Z-Clan/Z gaming owns, operates and administers the No.1 ranked public gaming server in the world (in it's community). (Verifiable  ). Ironically, this will show that we are currently at number 4 or 5, this is due our servers having been targetted by hackers over the last month and a half which has had a devasting effect on our server population. Unfortunately being ranked No.1 in the world has its disadvantages too. As soon the hackers are brought to justice or get bored we shall return to No.1. The history shows us at No.1.

Z-Clan/Z gaming owns, operates and administers multiple public gaming servers in 2 continents (Verifiable  )- the only Clan/gaming cooperative in the world to do so. This covers the North America, South America, Europe, Africa and Middle East. We shall soon be increasing this coverage to include Asia too making Z-Clan truly Global.

Z-Clan/Z gaming is the only Clan/gaming cooperative in the world (within its community) to regularly have public free to enter competitions with prizes. ( Verifiable )

Z-Clan/Z gaming recruits members not on the basis of nationality, ability or "Who you know" as other Clans do. We recruit on the basis of adherence to theethos "Think Different" covered in the Article I wrote. It's a case of quality not quantity. This again makes Z Clan unique.

Z-Clan/Z gaming serves a community of around 180,000 active users. There are an unknown quantity of inactive users. This is not an insignificant amount of people.

In terms of Notability, We cannot get more "Notable" within the boundaries of what we are and our policies with perhaps the exception of committing some heinous crime. It is unlikely that you will find a secondary source whereby Z-Clan is talked about apart from forums; it's just not the nature of the beast that we are. The times that we have been requested to talk publicly about Z-Clan were politely declined. We are happy to sit at the top - quietly. We just don't feel neither need to pubicly extol our virtues or self gratify. Which, clearly in this case is to our detriment but none the less a position with which overall we are happy with.

I have cited above, a number of random Wiki enties that seem on the face it to have no Notability associated with them whatsover and yet are included. Equally, I fail to see their "Significance" neither, but again they are none the less included and have been for some time. By this, I conclude that Notability and Significance is not an "Absolute" requirement but more of a guideline for an entry in Wikipedia and with this I would ask you to reconsider the inclusion (re-written if need be) of the Z-Clan article.

Thanks for your time

Regards

Carlosfundango (talk) 16:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - and speedy should have stuck. An article needs independent, reliable sources giving nontrivial coverage (explaining in some way why it should be considered notable instead of just mentioning it) to be a Wikipedia article. This doesn't have a single one. It looks promotional, and nothing about the group even sounds remotely notable enough for an encyclopedia article. DreamGuy (talk) 16:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Lack of verifiability or notability (WP:V, WP:N). In response to the above users: For the purposes of this discussion, inclusion is not an indicator of notability. Your group's demographic is not notability. That you are a mature organization is not notability. That you run "the No.1 ranked public gaming server" does not make you notable, with our without hackers. Your competitions, recruiting process and number of users do not make you notable. If we are "unlikely to find a secondary source" for Z-Clan, then by definition this information does not belong in WP, a tertiary source. Marasmusine (talk) 17:22, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: User:Carlosfundango claims that I have not responded to the question left on my talk page — this is untrue, as I left a response before I initiated the AfD discussion (see ). ...  disco spinster   talk  17:58, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that you had responded to my question and thank you for that. I unfortunately copied the aricle in it's entirety from a previous post. I apologise if I made it seem as though you ignored my question. Mea Culpa.

Carlosfundango (talk) 18:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. ...  disco spinster   talk  19:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I would like to ask Carlosfundango to please note WP:TLDR. Stifle (talk) 21:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per the lack of reliable sources. I could not find any sources on Google and Google News Archive. Cunard (talk) 21:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, crystal-clear A7 speedy imho. --Stormie (talk) 23:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, notability and verifiability issues, article consists almost entirely of soapbox material. 12:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong delete – Wikipedia is not your own web host. Borderline speedy deletion as spam. MuZemike 20:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:N, possible conflict of interest. Anyone in any gaming clan will claim that their gaming clan is not "just another gaming clan". Una LagunaTalk 15:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong delete per MuZemike. Also pointing out other articles doesn't make a difference per WP:OTHERSTUFF --Teancum (talk) 14:09, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.