Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zeek (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 00:57, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Zeek
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Still unchanged company advertising as the history shows, which also shows 1 suspiciously active IP, 92.20.196.186, adding only what the company would advertise to its clients and it happens to be geolocated near the company, so that itself shows no one has successfully improved the article beyond despite assurances about it, and also considering the past attempts; joining the past SPAs, the forementioned IP, Ymd2014, Nicoleblanckenberg, Eyaladam0 and Yofisimon, all suggestively showing employee accounts. To analyze the current sources: 1-5 are all clearly labeled company-POV announcements (including the supposedly best coverage), 6 is an empty link, 12 is actually the same link as #2 before and 7-11 & 13-17 and 19-22 are all labeled funding achievements and advertised columns. None of that satisfies WP:CORPDEPTH which states: [Unacceptable sources are] Brief announcements, simple statements, press releases, anything by or for the company, or where it talks about itself, wherever published", and although searches here and here found links, the majority of them are simply fitting the above "unacceptable" criteria, even when considering the few stories about the CEO's imprisonment; closely analyzing each page simply found immediate changing to 2012, showing the in-depth bareness. WP:What Wikipedia is not and WP:Paid have always taken importance when evaluating Wikipedia and its purposes, because No Advertising has always been one of them. Also examining the article closely again shows the separated timing: March, August and December 2014, April, May and November 2015 and January and July 2016. SwisterTwister  talk  20:07, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "Though the app has an easy-to-use graphic interface, its complexity lies in the logistics of transferring the credit from person to person in exchange for money. Zeek serves as the connection between the two parties, in place of a face-to-face meeting, but the process is still somewhat clumsy. This is due to the fact that the retailers refuse to accept physical or digital copies of store credit, only originals. ... Zeek’s business model is still not entirely clear, and the two founders are in talks on the matter with the retail chains, but they emphasize that no matter what, for users, the buyers and sellers, there will be no charge for use of the app or transaction fees of any sort. The company is beginning with a pilot in Israel, with hopes of entering additional markets, such as Asia, Latin America, and Europe, in the future. The US is irrelevant, because store credit is very rarely used there. For the time being it only has a Hebrew website. The first investor in the company was Uri Levine, former president and co-founder of traffic app Waze, who today is chairman and co-founder of financial fees comparison site Feex. He is also an angel investor."  The article notes: "In many cases, consumers find pursuing a refund more trouble than it’s worth, so they take the line of least resistance – settling for a credit, in the hope that they will find something else they want from the same store. But for those who can’t, Zeek has a solution – a platform that lets buyers, sellers, and barterers of store credits to find each other, no matter where they are. According to Zeek CEO Daniel Zelkind, retailers are cleaning up on this system, to the detriment of consumers. As much as NIS 600 million ($175 million) in store credits go unused every year. The Zeek app, available for Android and iOS, allows users to scan a copy of their credit and upload details to Zeek’s cloud. Users name their asking price. Zeek categorizes and tags the credit by store, product, style, gender and age appropriateness, and any other criteria users potential buyers would search for. Buyers pay no commission, and depending on store policies, sellers can often sell different chunks of their credit to different customers, allowing them to maximize their sale coverage. While Zeek is clearly a made-in-Israel app – it could have evolved only in a country where refunds are not a matter of course – the app is useful abroad as well. Zeek has tens of thousands of users in Israel, as well as in Europe and the US, where it is used to buy and sell gift certificates. The ability to break certificates into smaller chunks is a useful one for users abroad, according to Zeek. Plus, the fact that it’s all cloud-based makes Zeek convenient and user-friendly. “When you sell the gift vouchers or store credits, all you have to do is send it to us,” the company says. “Once it is received and approved, you will be contacted and we will forward you the money in the most convenient way: either check, PayPal or directly to your bank account. If you purchase a store credit or voucher, this item will be sent to you by mail.”"  The article notes: "Zeek looks to combat this age-old frustration by setting up a digital marketplace where unloved gift cards can be bought and sold with ease. It’s simple really - Agatha’s ungrateful sod of a nephew uploads a picture of his gift card and sets a price, all via his smartphone. The app then lets willing buyers pick up the gift card at the discounted value – Zeek reckons it sees an average 20 per cent skimmed off – and find it in their postbox shortly thereafter. Money goes direct to into the seller’s bank account or PayPal, and the buyer is now free to spend his or her new gift card as he or she pleases."  The article notes: "Zeek is a mobile app and website that allows users to buy gift cards and vouchers from their favorite brands at a discount and sell unwanted gift vouchers for cash, providing a solution to the estimated $100 billion of unused gift cards globally. ... Zeek was founded in 2014 by CEO Daniel Zelkind, VP Marketing Itay Erel and CTO Ziv Isaiah and has 35 employees in Israel and London. The company has raised $12.5 million to date including the latest financing round."  The article notes: "If you thought gift cards didn’t have traction, think again. Israel-based Zeek announced a $9.5 million Series B funding round led by Scale-Up Venture Capital on Wednesday. That financing includes contributions from major players like Blumberg Capital and Qualcomm Ventures. The company’s site and app sells gift cards to major brands, as well as resells unused or unwanted gift cards. Reselling would presumably put a dent in what Zeek‘s press release says is a staggering $100 billion in unused gift cards, up from an estimated $41 billion in unclaimed gift cards between 2005 and 2011. ... Zeek was founded in 2014 by CEO Daniel Zelkind, Itay Erel and Ziv Isaiah. Zeek will direct a chunk of the new round toward expansion in the UK market." </li> <li> The article notes: "Zeek is on a mission to rescue $100 billion worth of unused gift cards and vouchers for users. Zeek is a web-based and app marketplace platform that allows users to buy gift vouchers for over 350 leading UK brands at discounted rates as well as sell their unwanted gift vouchers quickly and easily. zeek.me"</li> <li> The article notes: "If you’ve ever received a gift voucher for a store you rarely or never shop in, then Zeek could prove useful. The marketplace and mobile app lets you buy and sell unwanted store credit, including gift vouchers, credit notes, gift cards and e-vouchers. The seller gets to offload credit that is of no use or before it expires, and the buyer gets to purchase credit at a significant discount. Meanwhile, Zeeks take a commission on each transaction. Win-win-win, you might say. Today the Tel Aviv-headquarted company is disclosing that it’s closed a $3 million Series A round from Blumberg Capital, Qualcomm Ventures (the chip maker’s venture arm), and Waze founder and existing Zeek investor Uri Levin. Originally launched in Israel before expanding to the U.K. in December 2014, the startup plans to use the new funding to “expedite” further European expansion."</li> <li> The article notes: "Originally launched out of Tel Aviv in 2014, Zeek has since expanded to the U.K., which is now a key market for the startup and part of the reason for today’s announced fund-raise. The new capital will be used to consolidate its position in the U.K. and for further international expansion. This will include a hiring drive as Zeek plans to increase headcount in order to accelerate that growth. The company’s app and marketplace lets you trade unwanted store credit, including gift vouchers, credit notes, gift cards and e-vouchers. The seller gets to offload credit that is of no use or before it expires, and the buyer gets to purchase credit at a significant discount. In turn, Zeek takes a commission on each transaction. It’s a model identical to extremely well-funded U.S. startup Raise, which closed a $56 million round of Series B funding early last year, putting Zeek’s bank balance into sharp contrast. With that said, in a statement Alex Lazovsky, General Partner of Scale-Up VC, is talking up Zeek’s unicorn potential, although I tellingly failed to get the startup’s current valuation."</li> <li> The article notes: "Fresh off a $9.5 million Series B funding round, Zeek is planning on expanding beyond its Israeli headquarters and moving into Europe. The company already has a presence in the U.K. — it’s been there since December 2014 — and it now looks as though demand and additional capital will be taking this gift card-specific marketplace to new horizons."</li> <li> The article notes: "Zeek, an Israeli app company for unwanted store credit, lets you sell store credit (those receipts you get when you return an item that usually ends up getting washed in the laundry), gift cards and e-vouchers below face value. Zeek recently announced that it has raised $3 million in Series A funding from Blumberg Capital and Qualcomm Inc. through its venture investment group, Qualcomm Ventures and Waze founder Uri Levin. Zeek said it will use this new funding to facilitate its expansion into Europe this year."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Zeek to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 21:49, 5 March 2017 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Comment I was impressed that you put so much effort into looking for references that would establish notability. Unfortunately it appears you have a different interpretation to WP:RS and WP:CORPDEPTH than others including me. Sources must be secondary - that means they shouldn't parrot PR releases or extensively quote from corporate officers or investors. Also, funding rounds or investor participation is not considered useful for establishing notability. Looking at the 11 references you provided:
 * 1. Classic advertorial. Describes the problem (straight off the corporate data sheets and website) and then the flash of insight by the founders and the solution including selected quotes from the CEO and a mention of investors. It's not intellectually separate, relies on Primary sources and fails both WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:RS.
 * 2. Just to save myself typing the same things over and over ... please refer to what I said in 1. above. Same thing applies here.
 * 3. And again.
 * 4. Fund raising does not establish notability. It's also another advertorial. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * 5. Same as 4. above.
 * 6. Same as 4. above.
 * 7. Same as 4. above. Also being on a list of similar companies also fails WP:COPRPDEPTH.
 * 8: Same as 1. and 4. above. Also, just be aware, Techcrunch is just about never an independent source.
 * 9. See 8. above
 * 10. See 1. and 4. above
 * 11. See 1. above but mainly see 4. above.
 * It's a shame that for so much effort I don't agree with any of your choices for sources that establish notability. If you've any questions about the interpretation of sources above, fire ahead and I'll do my best to answer them. -- HighKing ++ 16:06, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not consider bylined articles published in reputable Israeli newspapers to be advertisements. The assertion that the journalists are publishing advertorials is a vicious attack on the journalists' integrity. Such attacks should not be made without clear evidence that the journalists' independence has in fact been compromised by payment from the subject, for example. That a journalist has asked for and included quotes from the subjects of the articles is proper journalistic practice. That you disagree with the newspapers' journalistic and editorial judgment about what should be included in their articles does not render the sources unreliable. Fundraising articles do establish notability when the articles provide deep coverage of the subject. From WP:CORPDEPTH, "Deep coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond routine announcements and makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about an organization." The articles I listed here clearly "extends beyond routine announcements" by discussing the products and history in detail.  Cunard (talk) 06:04, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well that explains why we have different opinions. I'm wasn't sure why you highlighted "reputable Israeli newspapers" - what about others like Digital Trends and Techcrunch which are mainly North American? Anyway, the articles speak for themselves. An article that follows the well known formula of "problem, lightbulb moment by entrepeneur, company solution, funding, selected PR quotes from a founder or CEO or other company officer" is a Primary source with no evidence of independent fact checking. You'll find that when a company has established real notability, this formula tends to disappear very quickly. You say that fundtaising articles do establish notability - which is true, but only if those articles are independent. If you read a little more from WP:CORPDEPTH you'll come across Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. You'll also find that acceptable sources include all types of reliable sources except works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as quotations from an organization's personnel as story sources. You'll find that a primary test of notability is whether people independent of the subject itself (or its manufacturer, creator, or vendor) have actually considered the company, corporation, product or service notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial, non-routine works that focus upon it except for press releases, press kits, or similar works which is where that "formula" for the articles come from. The bottom line is that none of the *facts* can be verified by an independent secondary source, since the sources are getting their facts directly from the company.  -- HighKing ++ 21:57, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well that explains why we have different opinions. – I don't consider journalists to become non-independent when they interview their articles' subjects. I don't attack journalists' reputation by saying they are writing advertorials when they are following the standard journalistic practice of including quotations from their subjects, have a writing style I don't like, or include content I consider unimportant. I'm wasn't sure why you highlighted "reputable Israeli newspapers" - what about others like Digital Trends and Techcrunch which are mainly North American? – the Israeli newspapers have covered Zeek in substantial detail so are the strongest sources about the company. The bottom line is that none of the *facts* can be verified by an independent secondary source, since the sources are getting their facts directly from the company. – you are making an assertion unsupported by evidence. The sources could have independently verified the information in their articles during fact-checking by the sources' editors. Since no evidence has been provided to show otherwise and exceptional claims require exceptional sources, I will assume good faith that these sources, which have a reputation for fact-checking, did in fact do their due diligence and are not blindly publishing advertorials masquerading as actual news articles.  When you say journalists writing news articles are not producing independent articles, you are claiming that the journalists are committing journalistic malpractice. Reputable publications that have determined a journalist has committed journalistic malpractice will fire the journalist for failing to do his or her job. Journalistic malpractice is a serious charge to make and should not be made without clear evidence.  Cunard (talk) 07:34, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * These are the same exact sources that were analyzed in the first AfD: "Though the app has an easy-to-use graphic interface, its complexity lies in the logistics of transferring the credit from person to person in exchange for money. Zeek serves as the connection between the two parties, in place of a face-to-face meeting"...."The company is beginning with a pilot in Israel, with hopes of entering additional markets, such as Asia, Latin America, and Europe, in the future"...."In many cases, consumers find pursuing a refund more trouble than it’s worth, so they take the line of least resistance – settling for a credit, in the hope that they will find something else they want from the same store. But for those who can’t, Zeek has a solution – a platform that lets buyers, sellers, and barterers of store credits to find each other, no matter where they are"...."While Zeek is clearly a made-in-Israel app – it could have evolved only in a country where refunds are not a matter of course – the app is useful abroad as well. Zeek has tens of thousands of users in Israel, as well as in Europe and the US, where it is used to buy and sell gift certificates. The ability to break certificates into smaller chunks is a useful one for users abroad, according to Zeek. Plus, the fact that it’s all cloud-based makes Zeek convenient and user-friendly. “When you sell the gift vouchers or store credits, all you have to do is send it to us,” the company says. “Once it is received and approved, you will be contacted and we will forward you the money in the most convenient way: either check, PayPal or directly to your bank account. If you purchase a store credit or voucher, this item will be sent to you by mail.”...."If you’ve ever received a gift voucher for a store you rarely or never shop in, then Zeek could prove useful. The marketplace and mobile app lets you buy and sell unwanted store credit, including gift vouchers, credit notes, gift cards and e-vouchers. The seller gets to offload credit that is of no use or before it expires, and the buyer gets to purchase credit at a significant discount. Meanwhile, Zeeks take a commission on each transaction. Win-win-win, you might say"...."Originally launched out of Tel Aviv in 2014, Zeek has since expanded to the U.K., which is now a key market for the startup and part of the reason for today’s announced fund-raise. The new capital will be used to consolidate its position in the U.K. and for further international expansion. This will include a hiring drive as Zeek plans to increase headcount in order to accelerate that growth"...."The company’s app and marketplace lets you trade unwanted store credit, including gift vouchers, credit notes, gift cards and e-vouchers. The seller gets to offload credit that is of no use or before it expires, and the buyer gets to purchase credit at a significant discount"....In turn, Zeek takes a commission on each transaction. It’s a model identical to extremely well-funded U.S. startup Raise, which closed a $56 million round of Series B funding early last year, putting Zeek’s bank balance into sharp contrast"...."Fresh off a $9.5 million Series B funding round, Zeek is planning on expanding beyond its Israeli headquarters and moving into Europe. The company already has a presence in the U.K. — it’s been there since December 2014 — and it now looks as though demand and additional capital will be taking this gift card-specific marketplace to new horizons"....Zeek, an Israeli app company for unwanted store credit, lets you sell store credit (those receipts you get when you return an item that usually ends up getting washed in the laundry), gift cards and e-vouchers below face value. Zeek recently announced that it has raised $3 million from....". None of that satisfies WP:CORPDEPTH because the sources contained clear pricing information, costs, servicing information, etc. (certainly not satisfying WP:GNG, since anything with pricing information is sure to not be independent), and it wouldn't even satisfy WP:What Wikipedia is not, our main policy. Even if the sources were acceptable, the violations of WP:Paid, alone are non-negotiable. SwisterTwister   talk  00:01, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per wp:ADVERT Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 22:32, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - Promotional. Fails WP:CORP. Article has been "reference bombed" mostly by IP 92.20.196.186 (37 sources are referenced in 6 sentence lede!) which do nothing to establish notability as they are either direct press releases or derived from company press releases or articles where over half the article is quotes from a company executive which are not independent sources per policy WP:PROMOTION and guideline . WP:GNG requires a topic to meet all 3 requirements of "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Strangely, the article has 22 sources listed and, with the possible exception of the CNN Money article, none seem to meet the "independent" requirement.  CBS 527 Talk 03:52, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * What are your thoughts about this article from The Times of Israel and this article from Globes? Cunard (talk) 05:50, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the majority of the content about the company in both articles is coming from a primary source, either a company press release or from a company executive. Since the references are derived from primary sources they are not sufficient to establish notability.  CBS 527 Talk 01:27, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Significant portions from the two articles are not attributed to the company executives. What specific company press releases is the material from The Times of Israel and Globes articles reliant on? Cunard (talk) 06:04, 9 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:PROMO and lack of notability; the company is not yet encyclopedically relevant. The coverage presented at this AfD is about company plans, aspirations and funding, with the news of its funding repeated multiple times, such as "A gift card startup just raised $9.5 million to solve the unclaimed gift card problem". This is insufficiently independent coverage, and strongly suggests that it's WP:TOOSOON for this company to have an article. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:17, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:CORP and the sources listed above fail WP:RS as they are not independent and rely on Primary sources. -- HighKing ++ 15:40, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * From Identifying reliable sources: "Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources, i.e., a document or recording that relates or discusses information originally presented elsewhere." It is permissible for Wikipedia articles to be sourced to reputable secondary sources that have obtained information from primary sources and then validated that the information is accurate through fact-checking. Cunard (talk) 07:34, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep, sources highlighted by Cunard are reliable independent sources giving the company and its history significant coverage. Sources such as Times of Israel and Digital Trends pass WP:RS, it really is that simple. If that's not enough here is a source from CNN giving the subject significant coverage. Valoem   talk   contrib  19:42, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The CNN coverage has the same issue as all of the above -- it's not fully independent. For example, the article states:
 * "Zeek co-founder and CEO Daniel Zelkind said his app has been downloaded 200,000 times and has helped people buy and sell over $200,000 in gift cards since launching earlier this year."
 * So we have solely the claims of the company on why it's significant and notable. This cannot be used to write an NPOV article, hence WP:TOOSOON applies. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting the entire CNN article is a promotion written by the company, or that one quote used from the company invalidates CNN as a source. Regardless, I fail to see how WP:TOOSOON applies. Valoem   talk   contrib  01:42, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. The remarkable similarity between most of the references indicates their common origin as a press release. One or two are more extensive interviews by the founder, in which they say whatever the choose to say. This is firmly established as unusable for the purposes of establish notability--and for almost anything else except what they choose to give as their opinions. It is highly unlikely that a company of this minute size would be notable--almost no firm in the A or B rounds of financing is, though there are exceptions. At that stage these ae firms that are in great need of advertising and publicity, as they usually have very little else to offer. It is not the purpose of an encyclopedia to help them establish their business. The elaborate defense above of some of the references loss its point, when one reads what they actually say. Some such presentations in detail do succeed in establishing some degree of notability, and can be a perfectly valid way of arguing. In this case, it just confirm the lack of notability .  As just one example "Zeek is on a mission to rescue $100 billion "; considering their total funding is under $30 million, this extravagent goal clearly shows how far they are from having actual significance.   DGG ( talk ) 02:13, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The articles from The Times of Israel, Globes, and CNN are not "remarkably similar". It is highly unlikely that a company of this minute size would be notable--almost no firm in the A or B rounds of financing is, though there are exceptions. – firms of any size or any round of financing are notable if they pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". It is an unbelievable claim to say that The Times of Israel, Globes, and CNN are not reliable sources or to say that The Times of Israel, Globes, and CNN are not independent of the subject. That an Israeli company received significant coverage in the American news station CNN and in the UK publication TrustedReviews strongly establishes it is notable. A non-notable firm would not receive international significant coverage in respected publications.  Cunard (talk) 02:57, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep - coverage from CNN, Times of Israel, and Globes is non-trivial. A quick search also brought up mentions in the guardian, MarketWatch, and the economist (a short data piece - but actually quite interesting (from a finance perspective) - they compared discount-rates by chain on Zeek's website - by scraping data from Zeek - would seem this is independent research) - which I'm placing in the article. As this is a consumer-facing business dealing with a common consumer problem (in some markets) - it is receiving more coverage than a typical series-B startup. . These are not promotional pieces - they are covering a few companies in this "gift card resale market"  Icewhiz (talk) 07:01, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Quick note - looking at the press, it seems "gift card coverage" is an annual recurring staple around Christmas. And it seems Zeek (and 2-3 other startups) have worked themselves into this recurring coverage - so whomever is covering the "gift card angle" on the yearly piece at various outlets - is working them in - which shows notability.Icewhiz (talk) 07:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - per nom. DGG's analysis is spot on, so nothing further to add.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 16:08, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, and per DGG's concise WP:POLICY-based analysis, which is unclouded by waffle and which ignores off-topic suggestions to look at squirrels. Narky Blert (talk) 00:11, 14 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.