Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zehra Say


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Withdrawn per WP:HEY. (non-admin closure) power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 17:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Zehra Say

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The claim of "first officially married Turkish woman" is so bizarre I assume it is a translation error. Notability issues; this seems to be an ordinary high school art teacher, and I can't find anything about her art career that suggests WP:NARTIST is met. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 21:27, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 03:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 03:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment please see the documentation of the official certificate of marriage in the original old Turkish. The marriage is considered the: "Türkiye cumhuriyeti'nde ilk resmi nikah" which according to me means first official marriage in the Republic of Turkey. Perhaps can provide a better translation? GlobalSecretary (talk) 17:47, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per GlobalSecretary. CeeGee 08:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * the republic was officially proclaimed on 29 October 1923, and this woman was married in 1926. Are you asking me to believe that no official weddings took place in Turkey for over two years, and cite that only to her marriage certificate? power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 16:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I rather suggest you to believe it. "Officially" means here, according to the marriage law passed the parliament sometime later than the proclamation of the republic. The implementation of reforms took some time.  CeeGee 18:38, 6 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. The subject of this article passes WP:GNG. The fact that many of the sources are in Turkish does not mitigate this as this is a global project. Bmbaker88 (talk) 18:23, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - GNG clearly met - as a side note, if the sources cannot be understood by the nominator, the usual course of action is to ask for help from someone familiar with the language the sources are written in. Exemplo347 (talk) 22:41, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment as nom - I'm not convinced GNG is met. The references are entirely in Turkish (which is permitted, but makes my life harder), and include things such as Facebook pages and trivial mentions, as well as more substantial coverage .  Simply being the first woman to enter a civil marriage in the Republic of Turkey isn't a claim of notability, it would be WP:BIO1E (and trivia).  power~enwiki ( π ,  ν ) 01:10, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Even if you do not understand the Turkish references, the substantial coverage spanning several decades is enough to show you notability.--GlobalSecretary (talk) 13:25, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 09:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Sufficient evidence of notability has been provided. The beginning of civil, secular marriage in an Islamic society is far more significant than the nominator seems to realize, which is why there is a monument to the first marriage. The nominator should refrain from comments about "life" being "harder" when foreign language sources are used, as that is not a valid reason for deletion. This is the English language encyclopedia of the entire world, not the encyclopedia of the English speaking world. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  17:08, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I simply meant that it would be helpful if the "meets GNG" voters would describe *which* of the references are reliable secondary sources. Beyond that, enough has been done on this article that I'm more worried about the promotional nature of the articles on her relatives Emel Say and Fazıl Say than the notability here. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 06:45, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep though the text needs one serious improvement, especially in terms of its English. I agree with Cullen328 above, about the contested article, but about Wikipedia in general a thorough debate might be needed, since, for starters, we cannot reasonably expect the content of each Wikipedia across languages to be identical. Of course, this is not the place for it. -The Gnome (talk) 07:00, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I did not intend to argue that content between various language Wikipedias should be identical or even close at this time. Instead, my argument is that this English language Wikipedia is written in the English language but ideally should cover all notable topics, even if the notability of these topics is established by references to reliable sources in other languages. As the largest Wikipedia, we also should be the most comprehensive, although the other top language Wikipedias come close. The reliability of a given source has nothing whatsoever to do with the language it is written in. This is a matter that I care about deeply,, so we can discuss it further on my talk page if you want. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:26, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.