Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zeta Chi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. No problem with re-creating as a dab page if articles on more notable groups are created. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:20, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Zeta Chi

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

I can find no references outside Baker--and an extremely small fraternity of this sort is very unlikely to be notable. But I had considerable difficulty searching--there seem to be other organizations withthe same name, and some very well known fraternities with Zeta Chi as part of their name.  DGG ( talk ) 19:51, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I was asked on my talk p. to re-examine, in light of added sources. Being listed in Baird's manual of American college fraternities.  shows WP:V, not WP:N -- it's a indiscriminate directory. The others are either about members of the Baker students who happened to belong to the fraternity, or are local documentation of minor incidents.   DGG ( talk ) 22:40, 19 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. I see a (non-independently sourced) claim of being the oldest surviving independent university west of the Mississippi. If a source can be found this may merit a single line in the main (and very short) Baker University article. Otherwise consensus has been to delete such pages. Abductive  (reasoning) 23:02, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:58, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Well, according to WP:LOCAL, a local place deserves its own article as long as there is sufficient information that can be attributed to a reliable source; such seems to be satisfied by the Baird's manual with supplementary information from Zeta Chi's website (considered a self-reliable source as per WP:SOURCES as long as it isn't unduly self-serving). Considering that WP:LOCAL did not make it as a guideline on account that many people considered it overly exclusionistic and that this article may still meet its standards perhaps says that it should be included. Moreover, I believe the WP:GNG--which specifically states that neither fame, popularity, nor even importance are necessary--are at least weakly satisfied here due to the existence of independent sources which address the fraternity. For example, in addition to Baird's, there is this article (note: link doesn't quite send you in right location; look for the yellow highlighted portion in the right panel) which discusses at length the building of an addition to the frat house, though I admit it is debatable whether such is "routine" coverage.
 * All things considered, I think it's worth keeping this article, though perhaps, since I have found other fraternities and a sorority of the same name during my research, it should be moved to Zeta Chi (Baker University) (currently taken up by a redirect) and Zeta Chi be turned into a disambiguation page (perhaps incorporating material from the deleted Zeta Chi (Disambiguation) page, which may or may not have something).
 * Nonetheless, this Zeta Chi is older than any of the others I've found, older than any of us here, and may well be here long after we who discuss this AfD are long gone. There's information here that may be of interest to posterity, such as the fact I dug up yesterday that Zeta Chi tried to obtain a charter from Delta Upsilon in 1925 (which I suspect is unknown even to the living members of Zeta Chi who may think that the frat has always been about independence from other frats). — Code Hydro  14:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:20, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Zeta Chi (Baker University) because other Zeta Chis exist, such as this sorority, and turn this into a disambiguation page, as per my arguments in the above comment. — Code Hydro  18:37, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete. There is consensus that student organizations at single universities are not notable. This little frat at a little university has no claim to notability except its age "west of the Mississippi", and that claim is not backed up by any source. As can been in this search, many frats make this claim.  Abductive  (reasoning) 02:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Zeta Chi doesn't claim to be the oldest fraternity, but the oldest independent fraternity that has been continuously operated. Using this search, you find that Zeta Chi is the only one really making that claim. There are a few results for Delta Psi Delta at Linfield College, founded one year earlier but it was a club, not a fraternity, until it was reorganized in 1913. While there's no obvious independent source to back Zeta Chi's claim, there seems to be absolutely nothing to refute the claim independent or third party. Moreover, whether or not the claim that "There is consensus that student organizations at single universities are not notable" is true or not, we cannot say this one fraternity is not notable based on the collective, as per WP:NOTINHERITED. — Code  Hydro  17:43, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * In other words, it sort of might be the oldest independent local frat in a restricted geographical construct we call "west of the Mississippi" which means next to nothing to people outside the US. Abductive  (reasoning) 21:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.