Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zettai Ryōiki (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 02:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Zettai Ryōiki
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Simply a definition to a Japanese neologism. References used are blogs and other wikis. Farix (Talk) 15:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment If this survives I suggest removing the tag, it's of questionable scope to the project Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Commnet Previous AfD discussion includes references that are not blogs/other wikis. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep You already tried once to delete it. It is a legitimate term, as they proved in the last discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Zettai_Ry%C5%8Diki Having read the past debate, I say keep. Dream Focus (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think what you're looking for is WP:NOTAGAIN. I would agree, but right now the article is in WP:DICTDEF territory.  Compare with, say, tsundere.  Now, if the article were expanded, I think we could say "keep" a little more easily. 159.182.1.4 (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge Neologism at best. Isn't there a list of anime terms somewhere where this could be merged? Certainly doesn't seem to merit a standalone article. §FreeRangeFrog 19:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment This term is more of a sexual fetish then it is an anime or manga term. --Farix (Talk) 21:09, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Abstain Not my cup of tea ;) I reposts here the two references that tipped the balance of the previous Afd Akiba Kazei Shumbun Colloquialism dictionary entry up to you to assess their worth again. A pity that people didn't amend the article with those refs. KrebMarkt 20:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Based on a Google translation, the Akiba Kazei Shumbun article appears to be something else entirely, body shaped PC cases, with just a briefly mention the term and the Colloquialism dictionary only provides a definition. While these sources verify the content of the article, they are not the significant coverage needed for inclusion. --Farix (Talk) 21:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * A "brief mention"? The article is about those PC cases following the "golden ratio of zettai ryouiki"! If you think that's not enough coverage, it's trivial to come up with more:
 * Another article from Akiba Keizai Shimbun about a zettai ryouiki photobook.
 * A column in Mantan (Mainichi Shimbun) solely about zettai ryouiki and thigh-highs.
 * An article in Asahi Shimbun on Akihabara culture going over the definition of zettai ryouiki.
 * Interview on ITmedia about some video game focusing on why one of the characters lost her zettai ryouiki in the sequel (a symbol of maturity and adulthood, apparently).
 * New-Akiba article.
 * Need I say keep? It's crystal-clear that the subject is notable, as the previous AFD should have demonstrated. I don't have time for article writing at the moment, but then AFD is not the place to ask for article cleanup.
 * As an aside, AkibaBlog, despite the name, is not a blog but a personal news site. It's certainly no less of a reliable source than Anime News Network, say (if only because it is not unusual for those ANN reporters that aren't Japanese illiterate to use AkibaBlog as a single source). Bikasuishin (talk) 23:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have two objections to this. Firstly, Akibablog is most definately a blogsite - from their about page "AkibaBlog is for people who love Akihabara. This blog is written and updated by Mr. Geek (pen name) and he talks about what is going on at Akihabara.Unlike Akiba PC Hot Line, which talks about news about PC and its relations, AkibaBlog gives you information about stores, figures, comics, DVD, CD, magazines, cosplay, games, events, etc. Mr. Geek goes around Akihabara 360 days/year including New Year’s Day and Christmas". Akiba blog is basically someone going around Akihabara blogging special offers, quickly selling items and the latest eroge products. It is most definately not remotely as reliable as ANN, which is a site that reports "proper" news and not someones casual observations. Dandy Sephy (talk) 03:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * AkibaBlog is a published, third-party, independant source with a reputation for reliable fact-checking, hence meeting the criteria for WP:RS. The fact that it's mostly a one-man operation that commonly reports on pornographic material is hardly a reason to dismiss it. I don't know what "proper" news is, but I do understand that Geek has ample industry recognition, and reports on actual facts as opposed to the kind of gossip and rumors that is frequently found on ANN. Not that all this is really related to the issue at hand, but still. Bikasuishin (talk) 11:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep This article exists on three other language Wikis, establishing notability. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work like that Dandy Sephy (talk) 03:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete As I wrote in the previous deletion discussion, "Delete for the following reasons, quoting the entire text of the article:
 * "Zettai Ryōiki (絶対領域, Zettai Ryōiki?) is an anime/manga related term for describing the area of bare skin exposed on the thighs between the skirt and socks for female characters." This is a dictionary definition. "The socks are preferably over the knee type." This is one editor's opinion. "It is a common Tsundere/Meido attribute." This is original research. "The term Zettai Ryouiki loosely translates to Absolute Territory in Japanese." This is plausible, and has no apparent relation to the meaning of the term. "The ratio of exposed skin to the skirt and the socks is generally agreed in standard anime geek/otaku lore as 4:1:2.5 (Length of the skirt : Skin on thigh exposed : Length of the sock above the knee)." This is unreferenced, and I don't anticipate a scientific poll of anime geeks/otaku to find its way into scholarly literature soon. We may have to settle for a careful meta-analysis. "The term is said to have been inspired from the Neon Genesis Evangelion's AT field, but this has no relation to its present meaning." This is unreferenced, and even if a reference were provided, would not elevate the article above a dictionary definition of a neologism. One wonders how much information having no relation to the meaning of the term being defined belongs in its definition. "Anime characters known for their Zettai Ryouiki include Rin Tōsaka from Fate Stay Night, Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, and Karen Stadtfeld from Code Geass." What is the charactistic of their "zettai ryouiki"? Who has noted them? Is there any reason why Wikipedia should have this statement? References: Two blogs and a user page (I think) on some wiki. In short, this is a one-sentence dictionary definition of a term that, as a neologism, does not deserve coverage in Wikipedia, and refers to a concept that itself is not worth an article, even if mentioned on Japanese television (what's not?), used in the porn industry (that doesn't help its case) or trademarked (making something a trademark doesn't contribute to its being noteworthy). Apart from the article, Google claims hundreds of thousands of matches, but #871 is the last one it serves up." The offending text had mostly been deleted, and the article was stable for several months, but the original research with weasel words ("is generally agreed in standard anime geek/otaku lore") and the copyrighted illustration with no fair-use rationale for this article have all been restored. Fg2 (talk) 02:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Sources provided above (and previously) make it clear this is a notable subject about which an article can be written that is more than just a dictionary definition. Complaints about the current state of the article amount to pointing out it needs cleanup and better sourcing, or WP:NOEFFORT. AfDs are not about the current state, but about the subject itself. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions.   —Quasirandom (talk) 03:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as non-notable original research unless non-trivial sources other than the current wiki/blog pages are added. --DAJF (talk) 05:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wiki is not a dictionary. Besides, it's an manga-related slang word, not a standard noun. Oda Mari (talk) 08:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. It's unquestionably otaku lingo, and the article is unquestionably in pretty bad shape. Neither points are serious reasons for deletion, though. Don't you agree that a good, encyclopedic article can be written about this subject? Reliable sources are a-plenty. Bikasuishin (talk) 11:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete The article doesn't have reliable references and I couldn't find any either. - Mgm|(talk) 08:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as an insignificant neologism. Last time, people wrote such comments as I would like to say that people don't decide what's notable, sources and verifiability do. Uh huh. So let's take a look at the three "references": tvtropes.org: "We are not Wikipedia. We're a buttload more informal. There Is No Such Thing As Notability, and no citations are needed. ... We encourage ... original thought". donmai.us: unreferenced blog. akibablog.net: "アキバBlog(秋葉原ブログ)は、『アキバが好き』という方のための、管理人であるgeek(ペンネーム）が運営しているアキバ情報サイトです." Well thank you Mr or Ms person calling him/herself "geek" (pen name). If Bikasuishin (above) is so certain that there are better sources, then Bikasuishin is welcome to rewrite the article accordingly; and then I'll look at those sources too. -- Hoary (talk) 15:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Personally, i stumbled only once on Zettai Ryōiki while reading anime-manga related blogs so it's a kind of anime Fringe theories. I also looked for others anime related neologism in WP and noticed that something more covered like GAR was absent. KrebMarkt 08:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.