Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zion Square assault


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Szzuk (talk) 15:32, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Zion Square assault

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Brawl (at a location in which several other altercations occured over the years - beware in searching - there are several other events at this square) with one serious injury (though later determined to be a cardiac condition not directly related to the brawl). A whole bunch of coverage in August 2012. A little bit of trial / plea bargain coverage in 2013 - and then mostly nothing. No LASTING effect or SUSTAINED coverage. Icewhiz (talk) 15:26, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2019 (UTC)


 * SPEEDY KEEP - Even a brief review of the sources cited in the article shows sustained coverage of the incident (e.g., this book reference from 2015). FOARP (talk) 15:45, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * A few sentences. Fails INDEPTH.Icewhiz (talk) 16:46, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * And this book that has a whole chapter on it? FOARP (talk) 18:49, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That is a book with very small chapters - in this case 2 pages per the index. It was also written close to events (2013), so not an indication of SUSTAINED. More importantly, it is not a RS - Max Blumenthal writes for RT and AlterNet and is not known for factual accuracy.Icewhiz (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, this isn't very convincing. Two pages is quite significant for coverage that "addresses the topic directly and in detail". The year after most definitely is sustained coverage. And this is still only one of two dozen references in the article. FOARP (talk) 21:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Not a RS - and trial coverage (which is what Blumenthal's two page meandering essay is) written during the trial is not an indication of SUSTAINED. This event created a whole bunch of WP:NOTNEWS coverage in 2012. A tiny bit of coverage in 2013 during the trials of a few participants (coverage dying for the most part - since subsequent investigation revealed the event to be less severe than initially reported) - and then nothing. For WP:SUSTAINED we would typically look for sources after the crime and trial in question. Icewhiz (talk) 08:46, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep — I will AGF here. The incident forced Israeli society to consider their issues of racism and lack of tolerance ; I see that as having significance. News cverage existed for a year, maybe more, and I will review some of the hits I am seeing in academic journals.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:49, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * While there are several academic journal hits for "Zion square" - per my review they refer to other incidents and topics (e.g. a spate of violent incidents in 2014-2015, political rallies, safe spaces for queers, etc. etc.). The location itself is very well studied (possibly the most studied modern street location in Western Jerusalem) - both due to its use in political rallies, and being a focal point / intersection point for youth in the street - however coverage of other incidents/phenomena in Zion Square does not make this 2012 incident notable (though it does complicate BEFOREing). Icewhiz (talk) 08:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Page title is wildly inaccurate as a description of a teenage rumble between the Sharks and the Jets, with highly overblown language and use of some highly partisan sourcing. Rumble in Zion Square would be more like it, although, if we are going to write an article about every time two groups of young men hanging out on the street corner start throwing punches....E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:15, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That you can describe a hate attack where a group attempted to beat someone to death as a 'west-side story rumble' is so amazingly offensive I am surprised you are even allowed to edit IP articles. The Judge described it as a lynching. I suppose he was 'partisan' too. I suggest you restrict your comments to actual policy-based arguments instead of bullshit. Only in death does duty end (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Folks, let's keep it civil here. It doesn't matter what the nature of what took place is. What matters is whether there was sufficient significant coverage in reliable, independent sources to indicate notability. FOARP (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep More typical Wikipedia Zionist bullshit, where every dead Israeli Jew merits an encyclopedia article but no Palestinian qualifies for an article unless she or he can be maligned. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:42, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Articles for deletion/Lions' Gate stabbings, Articles for deletion/2017 Halamish stabbing attack and Malik Shabazz. If we are going to have an article for stabbings of settlers in occupied territories, which the person who nominated this article say clearly belong in the encyclopedia, then lynchings in Jerusalem with coverage well beyond either of those articles certainly pass that same standard.  nableezy  - 01:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * We have articles on events that have SUSTAINED coverage. Some attacks do, many do not. This particular incident - does not have such coverage - possibly since while it was a sensation in the initial August 2012 news cycle - the subsequent investigation and trial resulted in a less sensationalist outcome. Icewhiz (talk) 06:57, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * So, reporting that went on for a year in the Israeli national press.... sounds pretty sustained to me. FOARP (talk) 12:13, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Less than a year. One major (national and international) coverage spurt in August 2012. Minor coverage (brief) on a plea bargain in May 2013, and additional coverage on 8 July 2013 (verdict). So - no - far from continuous coverage that "went on for a year in the Israeli national press" - and one one would expect, for a notable event, sustained coverage after the end of the event (e.g. from 2014-15 onwards). Icewhiz (talk) 12:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * And, as noted, plentiful references for those years exist. 1 2 3 4 5. Your point here is that even with the references in the article the coverage lasted "only" ~ten-eleven months and "not a year"? This should have been Speedy Kept TBH. FOARP (talk) 13:23, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep The sources used talk for themselves. -- M h hossein   talk 16:33, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * This AFD is already in WP:SNOW territory. FOARP (talk) 21:15, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.