Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zoar, Delaware


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:51, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Zoar, Delaware

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As far as I can tell, this was never anything more than the Zoar Church, an early Methodist congregation now housed in a much more recent building. There is a state historical marker, but there's no settlement, and the spot has no labels at all until relatively recently on the topos, though the church itself shows up all the way back to 1917. Perhaps the church itself might merit an article, but that is not this article. Mangoe (talk) 16:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:16, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Delaware-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:16, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per my rationale at Articles for deletion/Dublin Hill, Delaware.  Dough   4872   22:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Mangoe, you are doing important work, and it needs to continue. That being said, it's been fairly easy to source this article using Newspaper Archive and Google Books, and I may try to find some additional sources tomorrow. According to my research, Zoar Church actually dates to the 1700s, according to several sources, although it is now on its third building. The references to the Zoar church are in the hundreds, and tend to drown out references to the place, but they are there: NewspaperArchive has several articles which mention people living "in Zoar" or "near Zoar". Books like this have been calling Zoar a settlement since at least 1966 (that's the earliest I've been able to find, but there may be earlier references). And Google maps shows there are houses within 300 feet of the church, despite your position that there is no settlement, only a church. Per WP:NPLACE, "Cities and villages anywhere in the world are generally kept, regardless of size or length of existence, as long as that existence can be verified through a reliable source." Wikipedia is a gazetteer in addition to being an encyclopedia, which is why we have articles on communities. Because this project is WP:NOTPAPER, here's no reason to delete this article on a community noted as being a populated place and which appears as a community on on local government maps in addition to US Geological Survey sources. Firsfron of Ronchester  09:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "Populated place", as has been noted many times before, is first of all a fairly broad classification, and second, is frequently incorrectly marked in GNIS. And the problem here is the characterization of this as a village or the like appears to be unfounded. It's not just that it takes reasoning to get from "there were people reported as from X" to "X is a settlement"; it's that the reasoning often enough is refuted by reality. And yes, there are houses there now, as there are houses nearly everywhere in Delaware these days, but all of those houses are relatively recently built, save the farmhouse west of the church. Aerials even as recently as the 1980s show that framstead, the church, and no village/town/settlement around them, just a crossroads. Mangoe (talk) 23:44, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * While I've occasionally seen errors in GNIS, and it's possibly reasonable to want additional verification that this is a community, the Delaware Place Names source additionally confirms (on page 122) that this is a settlement; this contradicts your AFD rationale, that there is no settlement here, only a church. Firsfron of Ronchester  01:09, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * - While I have no comment on the above article because I haven't gotten around to researching it yet, I will note that GNIS's "populated place" is rather error-prone. See Articles for deletion/Fish Pond, Kentucky which was about a GNIS "populated place" or Articles for deletion/Hartle Ford, Missouri also a populated placed in the GNIS.  Mayflower, Imperial County, California was PRODded so there's no discussion, but it turned out to be an instance where the name of a canal went past a place on a map, and GNIS interpreted the name of the canal as referring to the map point.  So when GNIS is wrong, it's often spectacularly wrong. Hog Farm Talk 02:10, 31 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per the rationales above and the existing coverage. BuySomeApples (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep satisfactorily referenced.17:45, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, as it is a populated place, and thus passes WP:NGEO.Jackattack1597 (talk) 11:04, 5 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.