Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/Message board/Topics/Archive 2

New Membership Meeting Call
Our tireless coordinator Alex756 has obviously had too much on his plate to organize another AMA Membership Meeting so Wgfinley has offered to step forward and organize it. He is presently gathering preferences on a meeting date to hopefully be held on IRC this weekend. Please leave a message on his talk page if you can't make the meeting. The meeting will be Saturday, 14 May at 1800 UTC.

Also, he has started a mailing list which may aid in communication across the vast timezones we encompass. Feel free to stop by and sign up. More information will be posted here shortly!

Preliminary Agenda Items

 * 1) Request for Assistance Page Standards
 * 2) Meeting Schedule
 * 3) Mailing List Usage

Agenda discussion

 * These topics are boring. Boo.

Sam Spade 23:41, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Fine, 6. Entertainment for Sam


 * Is that better?? :P --Wgfinley 03:21, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * How about we shorten the list to say 1 or 2 items, and focus on what we intend to achieve. Results would be very entertaining. Sam Spade 10:04, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry all, came down with the flu and spent the appointed hour sleeping on my couch, just got on now, will try to reschedule. --Wgfinley 23:43, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Haha.. Did anybody show up? Where are the minutes? Sam Spade 06:27, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Was me and one other non-member! I was told that this was called too quickly and was too late in the day. So, I'm going for next Saturday at 1800 UTC. Hopefully this will work for everyone. --Wgfinley 08:55, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Alternatives to IRC
I am not an IRC user and it would be inconvenient for me to use it. Although I wish I could be more active, I am content to be just a rank-and-file member of AMA, so to speak, I was wondering what other ways I may participate. Obviously I can propose ideas here on Wikipedia. Are there any plans for other sorts of discussions, such as via AIM? As the organization grows we may find it wise to provide alternatives. --BDD 21:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I could set up a PHP Chat room on one of my servers that would be accessible from any browser I suppose. I just think IRC is much more useful and helpful than that option (particularly for keeping a log). Firefox has an IRC client to get and use (Chatzilla) that I know a lot of people are using and is relatively painless to use as are most of the IRC clients that are out there. As far as AIM, I just can't see everyone coming to an agreement on that since there are so many diffeent messenger platforms in use. --Wgfinley 21:31, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hey, a meeeting might be ok...
feel free to contact me, or somebody else, if you feel a need... 04:59, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

This page is messy
I propose that all discussion not related to the next meeting be archived. I will consider lack of comment to be approval of my proposal ;) Sam Spade 22:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The silent applause of approval is most welcome, your too kind,


 * Sam Spade 23:40, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * And again. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 04:59, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


 * ... (echo of one clap)... (pause with silence and cricket sounds) ... (pause)... (echo)... --CyclePat 20:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * p.s.: and the reallisation that we're alone in the room sudenly makes the clapping stop. Sounds good to me anyway! --CyclePat 20:45, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Hearing Requested re:Aeon1006, for actions unbecoming of an Advocate
I am concerned about the recent behavior of Aeon1006, a volunteer advocate of Wikipedia’s Association of Members’ Advocates (AMA).

It has come to my attention that Aeon1006 violated the trust of his client, Insert-Belltower, and acted in such a manner that was unbecoming of an advocate.

The facts of the matter are as follows:

On July 11, 2006, Aeon1006 agreed to be an advocate for Insert-Belltower, who was seeking help defending against hostile efforts of editors Amerique and WHS.

On July 12, 2006, Aeon1006 sought statements from Insert-Belltower (I-B), but strangely, also an opposing opinion’s from I-B’s direct opposition, Amerique and WHS. He did so without consulting with his client, I-B.

On July 12, 2006, Aeon1006 requested that ElKevbo bring his opinion into the discussion. ElKevbo was a party known to oppose I-B, and his testimony was in opposition to I-B’s cause.

On July 13, 2006, WHS (opposing side) complained to Aeon1006 that Insert-Belltower had made unauthorized changes to his user talk page. In response, Aeon1006 wrote “Thank you I will investigate that and notify Mackensen [admin].” Instead of advocating on behalf of his client, Aeon1006 attempted to bring charges against Insert-Belltower with the admins. In fact, he ratted out his client to this admin on his talk page.

On July 14, 2006, Aeon1006 attempted to required all editors to obey the “fairness of tone” policy in their TALK discussions. However, Aeon1006 erroneously applied WP:NPOV#Fairness_of_tone to TALK discussion, when this rule specifically applies to article content.

On July 15, 2006, Aeon1006 demanded, in a public discussion, that his own client apologize to individuals for sockpuppetry, even though I-B’s alleged sockpuppetry did not actually affec any of these particular individuals (occurred at a different time).

On July 15, 2006, Aeon1006 wrote that his client was “stubborn.”

On July 16, 2006, Aeon1006 began assisting I-B’s direct opposition, Amerique – volunteering to submit an RfC against I-B’s side of the disagreement. As an advocate, Aeon1006 had access to privileged and confidential information from I-B – Aeon1006 now violates that privileged role and has agreed to use his knowledge to support the party that originally opposed his client.

A quick read through each of Aeon1006’s statements on his desk reveals that NONE of his comments were in support of his client. About a third of them were in opposition to I-B, and another third were essentially praising I-B’s opposition. As you can see, even from day #1, (July 12), Aeon1006 failed to fulfill his duty as I-B’s advocate, despite his promise to do so. It is certainly possible that Aeon1006 did not agree with his client’s position. If that were the case, then the appropriate and responsible action, under his duty as AMA advocate, would be to let I-B know that he couldn’t represent him. Instead, Aeon1006 took actions that hurt his client’s position. Aeon1006 never gave I-B the benefit of the doubt, or discussed with him in private the best way to handle the case. A quick review of I-B’s talk page will reveal almost zero help from Aeon1006. The last straw, was when Aeon1006 took advantage of his role as confidant and privileged position as I-B’s advocate to file an RfC against I-B’s party on behalf of Amerique, I-B’s direct opposition.

All of the above can be confirmed by reading Aeon1006's talk page, where he supposedly acted as an advocate for I-B, but instead hindered him and supported his opposition instead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Aeon1006/AMA

REGARDLESS of whether I-B was in the right or wrong (and I believe I-B has been a valuable editor), Aeon1006’s conduct as supposed-advocate was a breach of trust and highly unprofessional. In fact, Aeon1006 would be hard pressed to demonstrate that he offered any advocacy at all, especially in the context of all the harm he did in his role. Such behavior is not consistent with the core goals and values of the Association of Member’s Advocates. Aeon1006 should not have the opportunity to violate the trust of another editor again. As such, I hereby request that Aeon1006 be removed from the AMA.

UCRGrad 05:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur with all of the above. I will add more information later. -I-B. Insert-Belltower 16:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Seeing that there is currently no procedure for dealing with such a request, that our Coordinator position is vacant, and that I am acting organizer. I am not sure how long it will take to process your request. However, the AMA will take it into due consideration and investigate things thoroughly, so I must ask you to remain patient while we continue our reorganization. אמר Steve Caruso ( desk / poll ) 22:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm leaving IB and UCRGrad alone. There opinons on my being an advocate meen nothing to me. I dought the issues they have with me will stop, but I'm going to ignore them, why bother getting into it with them when I can be doing other things. Aeon Insane Ward  01:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)