Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/Requests/March 2007/Jalabi99

Case Filed On: 22:36, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedian filing request:



Other Wikipedians this pertains to:



Wikipedia pages this pertains to:


 * AfD log for 'List of multiracial people' (see here: )
 * Our correspondence on Kingboyk's Talk page at |"Deletion of 'List of multiracial people'"
 * Our correspondence on Kingboyk's Talk page at |"Deletion of 'List of multiracial people'"

Questions:
Have you read the AMA FAQ?
 * Answer: Yes

'''How would you describe the nature of this dispute? (policy violation, content dispute, personal attack, other)'''
 * Answer: Content dispute

'''What methods of Dispute Resolution have you tried so far? If you can, please provide wikilinks so that the Advocate looking over this case can see what you have done.'''
 * Answer: Wrote to express my opposition to the deletion, and requested for a copy of it. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kingboyk#Deletion_of_.22List_of_multiracial_people.22_page_--_why_was_it_done_so_quickly.3F

What do you expect to get from Advocacy?
 * Answer: If I cannot get the article in question replaced on Wikipedia, I would at least like a copy of it for my own personal use and for my own personal and private updating.

Summary:
Almost for as long as I have been a signed-up member of Wikipedia, I have contributed to and learned from the "List of multiracial people". Recently, I discovered that the list was placed on the Articles for Deletion list by a poster who hadn't ever gotten a WP username. After three days and debate by only about six people, Kingboyk deleted the list.

As you can see from the relevant section of Kingboyk's User Talk page [|here], I politely asked him to explain why the list was so quickly deleted with such minimal input from stakeholders such as myself. I also politely asked him for a copy of this list, which I and others have worked so long and hard on. Not only did he decline my modest request, he also saw fit to berate me for my (necessary) editing of the articles that were linked to on the list that he so summarily deleted. (I had added a "See Also" section to relevant articles, allowing people to go refer to the "List of multiracial people".)

I don't have so much of a problem with the "List of multiracial people" being deleted from WP, if the reasons for doing so were sound, and if enough people had put their two bits in on the AfD. I am protesting against the summary way in which the so-called "consensus" was reached, with no input from Wikipedians like me who had worked on the list; and I am protesting against the snarky manner in which Kingboyk responded to my modest, politely-worded request for a backup copy of the list to be sent to me.

What I want: I would like the "List of multiracial people" article to be reverted onto WP. If I cannot achieve that, I would very much appreciate that a backup copy of the list be sent to me, so that I can have access to this valuable resource and update and maintain it for my own, off-WP, private use. Thank you.

Discussion:
It may be true that the admin's words were a little "snarky", which at most should deserve an apology. I have not seen that the deletion was disputed WP:DRV. If you truly want to revive the list, then I recommend that you raise it there. As far as your concerns with Kingboyk, I am willing to speak with both of you to resolve any lingering rough spots. I am not especially confident that, due to the controversial nature of the list, he will be willing to furnish a copy. However, out of good faith, the list is still online (more or less) at Answers.com since they archive Wikipedia articles. I don't know how long it will remain there. Please let me know how you want to proceed. -Cquan 19:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * First of all, thank you taking up this case. I am in two minds over recreating the list on WP, since someone else who is as hasty as Kingboyk might just yank it off again...but I shall formally dispute the deletion of the article as soon as I can figure out that whole DRV stuff :) An apology (it doesn't have to be in public, email is fine) from Kingboyk would be acceptable as well. I figure he doesn't understand or have any sympathies for those of us who are of mixed-race or are multi-cultural, and our desire to satisfy our curiosity over who else is like us. I await your reply. -- Jalabi99 19:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well on first glance over the deletion, Articles for deletion/List of multiracial people, 10 separate editors (not counting the initiator) supporting deletion against 2 comes across as a consensus in my mind, especially since I've seen deletion discussions take over a week to get a few people to voice an opinion. If anything, it's more than likely to raise some strong feelings (which is probably what happened). However, it was closed quickly and since some editors don't sign in for days at a time, it's easy to miss people's opinions on a subject. So, raising it for deletion review is probably a good start, especially if you think there are a lot of editors that want to weigh in on this topic. This is by no means final, so just go through the steps if you want to revive it. We'll be here to provide guidance along the way. As far as Kingboyk, he is a very active admin, so I'm sure he's got his share of stress that may influence how he handles things. We're all guilty (me, too many times to count) of hastily doing things at one point or another. Remember to assume good faith and you shouldn't discount people right away. If it's alright with you, I'll go ahead and invite Kingboyk to this discussion. -Cquan 20:01, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Erm, it would have been nice to have been notified of this. Furthermore, this isn't an issue for mediation or advocacy as it's not a personal dispute. WP:DRV is that way... I suggest closing this as I won't be playing any part it. --kingboyk 13:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll take responsibility for not notifying earlier. Everything seems to be worked out now. Jalabi99 should have his copy of the article on his talk page now from Kingboyk with a note that it shouldn't be used to recreate the article. Hopefully everything is all set to go now. -Cquan (talk, AMA Desk) 18:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the copy of the list. Much appreciated. I also shall take your advice to assume good faith (he said through gritted teeth :P ) and shall initiate WP:DRV...just as soon as I figure out how to do so :) -- Jalabi99 21:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Followup:
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AMA Information
Case Status: open

Advocate Status:
 * Advocates Seraphimblade and Cquan.