Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 1

Catching up with some other countries
Over the last few days, I've been noticing a wide variety of holes in our coverage of Australian topics. There's really so much that needs doing, and it seems like the Irish have a good thing going. I talked to User:Chuq, and he thought it was a decent idea, so I've gone ahead and created an Australian version. Ambi 04:12, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Nice work
Good idea! Do you think it's worth having sub sections on the to-do list? For example, Australian politics, Australian geography, Australian music, etc. -- Chuq 06:24, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * If you think it's necessary, sure. Our coverage of current politics is pretty good, though our coverage of past politics is dreadful. I'm not sure about geography, as that's not really my thing. As for music - all the bands on Triple J Hottest 100 have articles, but I'm sure there's others that need work. Getting a list of all of these that do need work would really be helpful. It seems like it's our articles on history and society that are most in need of help, though. Ambi 06:32, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Number of articles in the to-do list
Where should we draw the line on the number of articles in the to do list? I reckon there should be a complete list at Requested Australian articles or somesuch with the most urgent listed here, as we could really go on for god-knows how long finding articles that need to be made or expanded. T.P.K. 06:35, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think we should have a collection of subpages of those that need doing, and then highlight a certain number to be put on the main to-do list. Btw, comments can on the main page - at least, that's there where the comments go on the Irish equivalent. Ambi 06:40, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Created Australian wikipedians' notice board/Complete to-do for the whole list. Feel free to subdivide and rearrange at will. T.P.K. 07:47, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lake Burley Griffin
I notice that the Todo has a pictures required section. I'm going to be getting my Aunt and Uncle to take some pictures of Lake Burley Griffin from various angles and positions. They are happy to release the pictures to the public domain! - Ta bu shi da yu 07:16, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Wonderful. There's a huge number of articles needing pictures, by the way - they were just the two that immediately came to mind. Ambi 07:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Charles Kingsford Smith
This is a very good idea and I will be happy to participate. Note that it's Charles Kingsford Smith with no hyphen. Adam 07:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks - fixed. Ambi 08:03, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Featured Articles
One thing I'd like to see is more featured articles from Australia. At the moment, I think we only have the one - Eureka Stockade. What would you all think about highlighting one particular article at a time to try and get towards featured status? I think our closest two at the moment would be Triple J and Franklin Dam, and with a bit of work, I think we could get them both featured. Ambi 09:50, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I think the Irish Wikipedians have their own version of COTW. We could well start our own. T.P.K. 10:20, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Mark Latham and Gough Whitlam are both featured. But I agree, it would be good to improve the quality of articles outside of politics. Lacrimosus 10:21, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I think our own COTW would be nice, but is it enough time? Ambi 11:55, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. I really want to get Cyclone Tracy up to scratch. Anyone want to help me out with this one? I gotta say, this board is bloody brilliant for inspiring yourself to contribute to Wikipedia! - Ta bu shi da yu 12:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Alright, I guess I have a new project then. I'll try and give you a hand, and start on it tomorrow. Would there be any objections to making it our first COTW? Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Why not. How should we pick them from now on though? Out of a hat? T.P.K. 13:48, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Same way as the main wikipedia does. It'll be interesting to see how many Aussies discover us! - Ta bu shi da yu 13:55, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

WikiProjects
I'm sure most of us have noticed the WikiProject Melbourne by now :) So what about you Sydneysiders, and Brisbanians, Adelaidians, and Perth... whatever people from Perth are, Perthers? :P If this noticeboard (which acts in some ways like a WikiProject methinks) is primrarily for Australia-wide work, it'd be great if the other capital cities founded projects for their own, more local, articles. Feel free to steal our work too if you wants. T.P.K. 10:20, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I've tried to create a project, but I think I stuffed up. Some help someone? See WikiProject Sydney. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:13, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Which templates were you trying to add? Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The Rocks
I've rewritten large parts of this article from scratch, and it now goes into a fair bit more detail about its history. Any feedback before I take it off the "improvement" list? Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Taking this to the talk page... - Ta bu shi da yu 04:39, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Roll Call
I've taken the liberty of creating a Roll call of Australian Wikipedians. Please feel free to leave your details here. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:02, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmm... isn't that the same as Wikipedians/Australia? -- Chuq 14:10, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Gah! I didn't see that. I'm setting up a redirection speedy delete. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I reckon we need to be ultra careful that we are welcoming to non-Australian contributors. They often have valuable contributions and an outsiders perspective of things. Just a comment. - Ta bu shi da yu


 * Of course, but I doubt most non-Australians will find their way here, or take notice. But I agree the outsider's perspective can be handy when patriotism get's the best of us! T.P.K. 14:23, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Breaker Morant
User:Dunks58 here. Glad to be part of the crew. I've recently done an article about Breaker Morant that I'd appreciate other Aus-Wikis having a look at. Still needs work on the trial section but will hopefully get that done soon. Have also done a small related article about Daisy Bates which is linked to it. All feedback gratefully accepted. Have VAST amounts of public-domain material on Australian music I can contribute from my own website, Milesago (http://www.milesago.com). Also working on improving the pathetically tiny entry on Australian jazz. Cheers!


 * Looks good! Only... it ends with "The 1998 biography o". What happened? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:28, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Movies in Australia
I want to create a List of movies filmed in Australia to dovetail with List of movies set in Australia, but I don't know that many! Other than The Matrixes and the latest Star Wars films. Also, the Australian Film Commission has a great list of recent Australian films, but they'll need to be sorted depending on whether they were set here or only filmed here, and on notability grounds too. T.P.K. 02:47, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I would think pretty much any movie set here is filmed here, so perhaps the 'set in Australia' could be a section of the 'filmed in Australia' one? -- Chuq 02:48, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Good point. T.P.K. 03:03, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Australia
What do people think of making a new Wikiproject for the whole of Australia? This way we can coordinate strategy better, and use this messageboard as the discussion forum. Anyway, just throwing this one out there for people's comments. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:00, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I was just going to suggest we do something to coordinate the WikiProjects, so that we don't re-do eachother's work. I don't think a full-fledged WikiProject is neccessary though, as all the content-creation stuff for Australia is being handled nicely here already. It would be nice to have a place for creating standards and formats to share between the WPM and WPS and any future projects though. I was going to suggest creating some subpages of this noticeboard for coordinating the WikiProjects. But prehaps a Wikiproject Australia would be better as it would fit into the 'greater scheme of things', as it were, all templated up and added to the list of WikiProjects. Either way. T.P.K. 03:09, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Cool. I'm going to sort out WikiProject Sydney first (it's in a constant state of startup flux at the moment) and do some more research work on several articles. Then maybe Melbourne and Sydney can start working on a new coordinating project for Australia. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:45, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * That's why I created this! I'd had in mind creating some sort of Australian WikiProject, but there didn't really seem to be an appropriate space on WikiProject, and no other country had one. Then I mentioned it on IRC, and someone pointed out what the Irish had done instead, and here we are! Personally, I think TPK's idea of having subpages to co-ordinate the city WikiProjects might be the best way to go. It might be nice if we could get them off the ground for some other cities, too. Ambi 05:08, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I think a WP:Australia would be a good idea. I didn't realise how much was missing until Ambi created this notice board, and the list of articles to create grew to over 50 in a couple of days.. it's a bit overwhelming.  I would start a WikiProject Hobart, but it's a bit pointless when there are no other users to co-ordinate with ... I'm happy helping out with the Melbourne one for now!
 * Could WikiProject Cities be used for city co-ordination? -- Chuq 05:18, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * You don't necessarily have to be living in the state you know (though it would probably help...) And who know? Maybe there are Hobart people lurking... If I wasn't so busy with the Sydney WikiProject I'd be happy to help heaps! I could help a bit though. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:04, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * If you want to create a Hobart one, I'll do my best to help you. There's always things you can do and articles you can edit from outside of the state, even if research and obtaining photos is a little harder. I'm trying to help out with Sydney at the moment, and I'm highly tempted to start a Canberra one, so I'd be happy to help with a Hobart one too. Ambi 07:21, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't a WikiProject just duplicate this, though? Ambi 06:44, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Not really. This is a very informal sort of place to discuss and work out what needs to be focussed on for Australian articles. A think perhaps a WikiProject would help give a bit more focus on things. It's a massive undertaking, though! - Ta bu shi da yu 07:01, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure - as I said, I created this as a form of national WikiProject - just not under that name, and following the Irish format, because they're the only place this organised at the moment. It just seems to me that it'll create two places to do the same thing. Ambi 07:21, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

(7 indents is enough) Really, I think the difference between this page and any subpages it might grow, and a WikiProject is semantic. The only difference is that the WP has a standard frontpage with the talk pages "behind" it, while this here is a talk page without a frontpage. It's not that important. Sure, the existing WPs are fine, and they are more conducive to structure and order, but for what we want need to do here, all we need is to discuss what the formats will be that will then go into the structured WikiProjects. I say we just create /WikiProjects, and any subpages under that which may be needed, for discussing anything which might be applicable to more than one CityProject. If and when we create a solid structure for how to treat all the aspects of a city in the Pedia, we can write it up as a WikiProject to allow others to use it. T.P.K. 08:59, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, sounds good to me. I'm not really that fussed one way or the other. Besides which: I'm too busy with the Sydney Wikiproject!!! - Ta bu shi da yu 13:37, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I've created the /WikiProjects page for all your cross-project discussion needs. T.P.K. 14:33, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Mark Latham article
Can someone finish off the references section for me? I honestly can't be arsed any more. I've done half of it already (and removed and update invalid links to boot). See Cite sources for info on how to cite sources correctly (if you don't know the format, or it isn't given then just make it up and we'll fix it later). Cheers all. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:41, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Collaboration of the week?
Do we have any ideas for the next collaboration of the week? Cyclone Tracy went from nothing to damn fine in the space of its week, largely due to User:Ta bu shi da yu's excellent work. &mdash;Stormie 01:52, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * *blush* Thanks Stormie, but I can't take all the credit here! Ambi did heaps of work on the article also! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:07, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * OK, I've created a page Australian Collaboration of the Week for voting on this very issue! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:21, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Copyright
Hi all, Recently I've been in discussion about with Lupo over Australian copyright. Just to let you all know, Australia doesn't have any fair use legislation. We have fair dealing, however this is not at all like fair use. For instance for any material we gather from the Australian government, we still need permission to use the material. Also, should we add any information from a source, we need to be sure that we don't use more than 10% of that material. Further info can be found at Fair dealing (this needs to be expanded or placed in it's own article by the way) and at http://www.copyright.org.au - Ta bu shi da yu 06:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * How does this affect images, which is going to be our big problem here? Ambi 07:02, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Any images where the government holds copyright require permission to use the images on this site. I don't think that this will be such a big issue, but we need to assertain the source of the material and which government department we gathered the information from. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:16, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * But remember that we'd need permission to redistribute them as well. If we can't get something like AUSPIC's non-commercial use, we're going to have to find other sources, methinks. Ambi 07:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, so if there's no fair use as we know it, what happens to things like coats-of-arms and corporate logos? Or does this only concern government material? T.P.K. 07:36, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. I can find out though. Maybe we could make copyright a subpage of this board and discuss it there? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:24, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * This could be a serious problem. I hope you'll be able to find us an answer. Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Should we place info about the AUSPIC's noncommercial license in all the pictures that use it (eg. ) - Aaron Hill 11:55, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)


 * Maybe we could make a template, for instance Template:AUSPIC. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:24, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * That would certainly help, as there's going to be 200+ articles to put it in. Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Guys, read Image copyright tags. AUSPIC's license is contrary to policies for the wider Wikipedia. --Robert Merkel 07:11, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * It isn't necessarily, but they're being discouraged for new articles, with attempts being made to replace noncommercial (and worse, Wikipedia-specific permission) with free images. Ambi 07:18, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * The Cyclone Tracy article has an image I secured permission specifically for Wikipedia. This, however, is not that big a deal IMHO because any site that mirrors Wikipedia should be able to gain permission by emailing copyright@naa.gov.au - Ta bu shi da yu 07:37, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm sure they could gain permission, but this is just one article in a million, any mirroring site wont have the resources to get copyright permission on all the images in wikipedia. The bellman 01:31, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Incidently, I've made a template for Template:AustFairdealing. Someone want to review this? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:27, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * It's good, but considering it's most likely to be used for images, it really needs clarifying as to what indeed that means for us. Ambi 13:38, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Franklin Dam Images
Are any of you any good with copyright permission request stuff? I noticed that the Wilderness Society has some fantastic pictures associated with the campaign to stop the Franklin Dam, and the article is really in need of some. It'd be good if someone could contact them, but I'm really not sure of what to say/how to put it.

Also, any feedback/assistance with this article itself would be much appreciated, as I'm going to nominate this to be featured soon, and it'd be nice to catch any issues before that point. Ambi 06:30, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I've contacted the Wilderness Society. Hopefully they'll be able to help here. If not, I don't know what I'll do about this. Ambi 03:13, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * If not there is always the ACF, the WWF, Greenpeace, the greens... The bellman 10:52, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

To-do list size
Would it be a good idea to condense the list of articles in the to-do template, so it can be included at the top of Talk:Australia and other such articles? The full list would still be available of course. -- Chuq 02:48, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd rather do it, however, by trying to clean up as many as possible before moving them. There's a few that really aren't that far off. Ambi 03:30, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Big Day Out pictures
I have a few from the Big Day Out here on my website. I'm not sure which one is most illustrative though. Let me know which ones you want to use... --Robert Merkel 07:48, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd probably go Nos 2, 6, 8 if it weren't blurry. Unless it's artistic. But enclopedia articles aren't meant to be artistic. Or are they? T.P.K. 07:54, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Wasn't intentional. The Big Day Out is not exactly an ideal environment for taking long-exposure photographs.  Did you see the ones on the second page? --Robert Merkel 08:18, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, but they're more "funny-looking people standing in a crowd", although definately representative of the BDO, the crowd/stage ones have better context, methinks. Don't take my word for anything though! T.P.K. 08:24, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Wonderful. How about using the Gerling and Datsuns ones? I think they're probably the best. The Magic Dirt one would be good in Magic Dirt, as well. Ambi 08:37, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Australian rock
Just a notice to anyone who cares: Australian rock could use some work for clean-up and whatnot, and it is also over 32k and should be slimmed or split into more than one article. Also, music of Australia is coming along nicely, with input from Aussies and foreigners -- please read through and contribute if it suits your fancy. Tuf-Kat 09:23, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

New Collaboration of the Week.
I've started Australian Collaboration of the Week, mostly based on the exist WP:COTW. Can I encourage everyone to use this? Thanks all! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Do you want to just go with Victor Chang for the next week, to give the WP:ACOTW page time to get rolling? I'd be totally cool with that. &mdash;Stormie 05:45, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)


 * p.s. if you do want to do that, I just created an initial Victor Chang article. :-) &mdash;Stormie 06:18, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)


 * Let's start by getting people involved. I'd like to make this a real community project! If need be we can extend the final date for voting. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:51, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * OK! &mdash;Stormie 07:01, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Fred Hollows
I've given Fred Hollows a bit more substance. It would be nice if someone can supply an image. Cheers. Moriori 09:55, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Have added your request to my newly created Australian wikipedians' notice board/Request for images. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:21, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I'll add it to my watchlist. For the record, I think your absolute best bet here is to ask the Fred Hollows Foundation if they've got any public domain pictures of him. I'm sure they wouldn't mind. Ambi 13:24, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Fuzzy Wuzzy
Okay, this is seriously bugging me. Just what are we talking about here? --ZZ 14:18, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The term used by diggers for their PNG allies; not sure if its taken so nicely by all PNGs these days (like Aborigine can be offensive to some "Indigenous Australians", rare but not unheard of, and increasing)
 * The song (about a bear - see WP:ACOTW)
 * Fuzzy Wuzzy caterpillars
 * Badly knitted woolen jumpers (or was that just me)
 * Warm fuzzies - anonymous written notes of affirmation in classrooms
 * Erm, the term used by diggers for their PNG allies. The other stuff isn't encyclopedic, and even if it were, would most likely be on a linked disambiguation page. Ambi 14:27, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * When i nominated it for ACOTW i was certainly talking about our PNG allies, i just added the song cause i did a google search on the term and found it, and thought it was funny, but seriously i dont think you would be able to write an encyclopedia article on the song, and even if you could would you want to? and anyway, it wouldnt be particualy AUSTRALIAN. Our PNG allies on the other hand would be very interesting, however perhaps a more objective title like Australian allies in PNG during WWII would be better. Coming to think about it, maybe it would be best if the fuzzy-wuzzys just became part of the australian involvement in WWII article that was being discussed as a section of the Australian history article. The bellman 14:36, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)