Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 19

Latest Royal Commission
I understand that Terence Cole has been recalled this morning, 1 April, from the AWB Royal Commission to commence an independent investigation into the conduct of the players of the Richmond Football Club. Either the players have accepted bribes to play dead or they are truly that inept. Whichever finding Cole comes up with, it will be a damning indictment on Richmond, its players, its coaching staff and its management. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  04:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * And about bloody time too, but when is someone going to call in the sniffer dogs on whoever designed Freo's guernseys? ～J.K. 09:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Request for admin assistance
Picks.14 was an account set up to vandalism John Howard, when I warned him, Picks.14 told me to fuck off. Can an admin please permablock him? Xtra 01:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Account is now blocked indefinitely as it appears to have been created solely for vandalism and attacks. -- Ian &equiv; talk 06:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Australia Day is new ACOTF
Rum Rebellion was the Australian collaboration from 19 March 2006 to 2 April 2006
 * 6 contributors made 18 edits
 * The article increased from 2390 characters to 9280 characters - 3.8 times longer
 * See how much it changed

The new collaboration of the fortnight is Australia Day, which has already received some improvement since being nominated.

Thankyou to those who contributed to Rum Rebellion and who have nominated and voted for Australia Day.--Scott Davis Talk 14:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

suspected hoax atArticles for deletion/Movement to End Woman's Suffage
Hello everybosy. Have a look at this. It seems to be a hoax political movement in Australia. Regards, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 03:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I would have thought that this is a central plank in the the anglo-christian neo-con radical militarist party platform. In fact, I am surprised that there is no article on that one at all.  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  04:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not supposed to talk about this in public, but women's suffrage is actually part of the Jewish plot, as is neoconservatism. Andjam 11:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

http://awnb.wikimedia.org.au/
Oh yes, that's right! Pretty nifty eh? (Thanks Angela) But don't rely on it, it's not necessarily permanent.

On the topic of WMA, if you're interested in helping thrash out the specifics as we muddle towards incorporation and thus formal existence, check out http://mail.wikimedia.org.au/ to join the mailing list. And drop your preferences off for attending Wikimedia Australia/Meeting 2 (on IRC). --pfctdayelise (translate?) 13:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd sell my soul for a www.wikinews.org.au that redirects to http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Portal:Australia (or a multilingual Australian Wikinews portal). - Borofkin 04:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikinews isn't an Australian organisation, so I don't think we can really claim that domain. Wikimedia, on the other hand, will be one once Wikimedia Australia is formed. Angela. 06:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * asn.au domain names are available to any organisation / club etc, registered or not. org.au requires the registrant to be a legally registered organisation. I spent a while in this industry and can help out with the domain names side of things if assistance is required. -- Longhair 04:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Portuguese discovery of Australia
This issue has been restarted by Jazzper. Please comment at Talk:Portuguese Discovery of Australia. Relevant comments are at User talk:Cyberjunkie and User talk:Jazzper.--cj | talk 07:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Since the article has been recreated with new content (im assuming that), maybe it should be put up for deletion again -- Astrokey44 |talk 09:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I restored the redirect. Do you suggest we should re-instate the content and re-propose it for deletion? --cj | talk 09:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, considering it is a fairly good (although biased) article -- Astrokey44 |talk 09:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Another (now reverted) edit has appeared at Houtman Abrolhos. -- Ian &equiv; talk 05:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC) My mistake, ignore. -- Ian &equiv; talk 06:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Tampa case
I've just added a very long and complicated article on Ruddock v Vadarlis, also known as the Tampa case, and I'd appeciate it if some people could look it over because my head is officially about to implode. Let me know if I've missed anything that needs explaining properly, etc. --bainer (talk) 10:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Slightly tangential, but can someone work out which is the active article: Mandatory detention or Mandatory detention in Australia? There should be only one article, and the other should be a redirect. Andjam 12:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Wunjunga
I hope you don't mind me bringing up this here. I recently found this article and couldn't decide whether to list it as an article needing attention or an article needing deletion. The article reads like an advertorial - at first, I thought it was - but a quick Google search proved me wrong. Here's more evidence of its existence. Thoughts? QazPlm 04:34, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Definitely don't delete it, as it is a real town. I have:
 * moved it to Wunjunga, Queensland, in accordance with the agreed naming system for Australian towns;
 * deleted the vast majority of the content, because it was a copyright violation of this website;
 * added its coordinates;
 * added it to Category:Towns in Queensland; and
 * marked it an Australia-geo-stub.
 * It should now be just another harmless stub. Snottygobble 05:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking care of that for me, Snottygobble. QazPlm 22:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Greens Cats
Why are greens members being moved from Australian Green, to State Green? These are really quite unnesecary extra categories. Xtra 04:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. I've moved them back. Ambi 05:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Brave Tegan Wagner
Tegan Wagner is the girl who was raped. She is 18 now and she told them to go to hell. She was raped by some Lebanese-Australians if you didn't know, back in 2002. Should we have an article about her? --Bronwyn Gannan 11:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC).


 * An article on the Sydney Lebanese-Australian gang rapes exists. Perhaps the information could be merged into this article if it's of relevance? -- Longhair 11:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Make her name a RDR to that article if necessary. People are not notable for being sexually assaulted. It's a frightfully common crime. Her case is of course notable but consider if you were her: would you want your name to stand in time immemorial as "the Sydney girl who was gang-raped by Lebanese"? I don't think a little sympathetic POV is going to hurt WP in this case. pfctdayelise (translate?) 11:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have thought the victim's privacy should be respected and I can't otherwise think she is notable.--A Y Arktos\talk 11:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Matthew Shepard has an article, as does James Byrd, Jr.. At least Tegan chose to have her name known to the media. But I'm not sure that Wagner needs an article, as there's already an article on the crimes involved.

Maybe one approach would be to try writing about her, and see if it is possible to write more than a paragraph or two of encyclopedic material. If not, merging with a relevant existing article would be better.

As far as privacy is concerned, protecting privacy is good, but her decision to go public should be taken into account. Andjam 14:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hehe, "Brave" Tegan Wagner. You'll get a job as a reporter on ACA with that =).  I don't know that an article is necessary, given that we already have an article on the crime in question.  She's not-notable other than that.  I dunno, maybe redirect "Tegan Wagner" to the crime article? Lankiveil 03:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC).

Wikipedia on The Science Show, Radio National
Wikipedia vs. Britannica feature on The Science Show, Radio National. Download the podcast here (Apr 8). Dysprosia 02:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't seem to locate it - what min/sec location of the mp3 is it? -- Chuq 04:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I heard it live, so I can't quite tell you. It would have to be before 24:09, going by the guide on the link. Otherwise they may not have copyright or whatever to include it in the podcast, so maybe trying the stream would work. Dysprosia 05:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It starts at 18:30, and thanks for the link. -- Ian &equiv; talk 05:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Got it! Thanks.  Although, I left the podcast playing after the Wikipedia story, and well, I'm glad no-one else got home when the next topic started! -- Chuq 05:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Liason for photo licensing
Would anyone be interested in inviting individuals to license photos so they can be used for wikipedia? I'm not sure I've been doing a good job myself, so I'd rather a more suited person does so. Thanks, Andjam 09:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you mean, for you? in general? for Australia-related requests? There are some semi-useful templates at WP:BRP (although, I wouldn't mention the GFDL and instead ask someone to release under eg. CC-BY-SA). pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * For Australia-related requests. This'd be the kind of thing wikimedia Australia would be good for, right? Andjam 23:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure (passing off painful work, why not ;)), but at the end of the day, the person has to understand that they're allowing derivative works to be made and allowing commercial use. Many rights holders rightly or wrongly baulk at those terms. Being all official and saying "Wikipedia(TM)" and "Wikimedia Australia(R)" shouldn't change that too much. Perhaps we first need to develop a Copyleft Reeducation Centre. ;) pfctdayelise (translate?) 02:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Noelle, co-webmaster of Ohno zone, has kindly granted an image under the GFDL. Image:Saguenay_500m.jpg Coming to a main page near you real soon now! Andjam 13:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia as an Image Gallery
Is there a policy about having as many pictures as Palm Island, Queensland. I tried to make them fit without resorting to adding horizontal lines everywhere, unfortunately, its only a hack. It doesn't seem like wikipedia is setup for this, or I havn't found the functionality yet. Ansell 11:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You could dump the images into an image gallery (ie ) at the bottom of the page, as done at His Majesty's Theatre, Western Australia.--Commander Keane 12:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I will try that. Ansell 12:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The article seems a little original research-ish, especially with the photos of ex-cars. Would wikimedia commons also be an option for images that aren't being directly referred to in the text? Andjam 12:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It does sound a little original research, however, I have no doubt that the factual elements could be referenced as I followed the riot story in newspapers and it doesn't sound too far off track in that department. Commons Sounds like an idea for the pictures. How do you look into that option? I have never done it before. Ansell 12:17, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow. I think there's something wrong when the caption is taking more space than the image! :) Commons is a great option for this type of thing. These things need to happen: 1) The images have to be uploaded to Commons at commons:Special:Upload. This makes them automatically available to all Wikimedia projects, whereas at the moment they are only available to en.wp. Whoever does the uploading will need an account at Commons, as we still await the implementation of a universal login. 2) As part of this, the author needs to choose a license (eg: PD-self, GFDL-self, self2, CC-BY-SA-2.5). See commons:Commons:Licensing. 3) The images should be placed in an article (or 'gallery page') on Commons, probably Palm Island, Queensland. Take advantage of the captions to give context to the images. 4) On the article here, under "see also", put and it will automatically generate a pretty box linking to the gallery page on Commons.
 * If you need some help here, feel free to contact me - I have the same username. pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

mapad.terrapages.com links
Do other users think Gigpig's additions of "Zoom map from Terrapages" (example) to the external links of a number of cities is Linkspam or a useful resource? I can't decide. I suspect the intent is to raise the profile of a new advertising website, as there seems little advertising there, but the map is annoying as it zooms in and out, but does not pan or recentre. --Scott Davis Talk 14:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I saw someone add the link to the Brisbane page before and didn't think that much of it. Of course, I have Adblock and Firefox, so I never see advertising if it was there. The functionality of the map wasn't all that great though. Nothing like Google Maps or Whereis.com.au. I wouldn't be against removing them all though as they dont seem like that significant a link to have. Ansell 14:18, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * If it's just an external link to a map, best to use one of the coor templates (see Template talk:Coor), which generates a map sources page such as this one with links to hundreds of differenet map sources. For maps within cities in Australia, try Template:Geolinks-AUS-suburbscale. --bainer (talk) 22:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * As you say, if it's useful, it should go into Template:Geolinks-AUS-suburbscale. However, it doesn't seem very useful to me. The maps are small, the URLs seem to be based on place name (yuck - should use Long + Lat), there seems to be a fair amount of advertising (although I'm also blocking most ads), and frankly we can do better elsewhere. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 05:14, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of article Australia
That got your attention, didn't it? As many of you are probably aware, Xtra's stalker PSYCH seems to have decided to vandalise every single article Xtra ever edited. This particular vandal tends to use obscene and abusive edit summaries, examples of which can can no longer be seen in the revision history of my talk page.

As these edit summaries obviously libel Xtra, I intend to delete these edits from article histories wherever I see them, per Wikipedia's libel policy. Such selective deletion requires full deletion followed by selective restoration. Therefore you are likely to see me delete some high profile Australian articles over the coming weeks. Examples include Australia, Melbourne, John Howard, and many more. Fear not! I have not become a rouge admin. Any article I delete will be restored within a minute or so. In the case of articles with very many edits, I will restore the current version immediately, with full restoration of the article history to follow shortly afterwards.

I need help. If you notice such vandalism, feel free to let me know. Admins, feel free to help out. Snottygobble 02:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Good! Here are some I noticed: Australian Football League, List of Australian state and territory slogans. --pfctdayelise (translate?) 03:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks pfctdayelise. Done and done. Snottygobble 04:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

This page is next. Snottygobble 06:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Snottygobble 06:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

(I have split the remainder of this debate off into a separate section to signify that the removal of vandalism per the Libel policy has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's view of anyone's behaviour. Snottygobble 12:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC))


 * WTH? It's still going on. Australian Football League again. --pfctdayelise (translate?) 04:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * User talk:Evan C, Ken Moroney, Talk:Gay rights in Australia, User:Calair, Gay rights in Australia and my talk page also just got hit. This action (of the vandal) is beyond pathetic. michael talk 04:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * All gone. Snottygobble 04:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been hit again - it's been reverted but not erased from history. Andjam 10:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I took care of your user page and talk page. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 04:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn't get to it, Andjam, and thanks Jitse for stepping in. Thanks also to cj for helping out with the selective deletion. I'm beginning to feel like good will triumph over evil after all. Snottygobble 04:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Xtra and PSYCH

 * All of this could have possibly been avoided by Xtra removing the link from his userpage regarding the PSYCH arbitration case. The original matter was between these two editors, and now, the insistence on keeping the old link to the arbitration case around has obviously caused an old flame to reignite. Why is it there? -- Longhair 06:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I doubt its removal would have changed anything. It seems apparent to me that PSYCH was determined to conflict with Xtra regardless. --cj | talk 06:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That may be true, but the conflict has spread to not only my userpage asking for resolution, but I assume many others. A few of us have arbitration cases behind us, and we rarely see the need to advertise the event. I'm not laying blame anywhere here, as one party is obviously more aggravated than the other, but hell, so be it, remove the link, life goes on, people change etc. I'd welcome my old sparring partner, Internodeuser back without a second thought if he played by the rules next time around. Presennting the arbitration case like a barnstar on the mantle piece is helping nobody. -- Longhair 06:20, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I neither know nor care. For me, this isn't about Xtra and PSYCH, and it certainly isn't about homosexuality and homophobia; it is about managing Wikimedia's public image and exposure to libel liability. For that reason, I would personally prefer that this section not turn into a discussion about blame and remedies in Xtra v. Psych. Snottygobble 06:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed.--cj | talk 06:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

The semiprotection doesn't seem to work. Another IP left a comment on Xtra's page. Could an admin try and find why the s-protect still allows anons to leak through? Regards, ßlηguγeη | Have your say!!! 07:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC).

In response to concerns about my conduct. PSYCH was abusive and offensive to me from the beginning (last year) which is why I instituted the arbitration. The link to the arbitration could have been worded better. However, I cannot be held responsible for some rogue's mass vandalism and perhaps encouragement of mass vandalsim. Also, PSYCH made every possible effort to debate every point everywhere I made a comment and coming to a resolution was impossible. Aditionally I reserve my right to link any Wikipedia page on my user page, as should be all Wikipedia users' right. Mind you, Longhair, check out PSYCH's contributions in the last month and tell me if you see any edit that was not related to me. I will not be held ransom by a vandal and I would not expect Wikipedia to either. Xtra 07:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I feel that Ambi's interactions with Lefty on Campus (a sockpuppet of PSYCH) gave the opinion that it was merely a dispute between pro-gay-rights and anti-gay-rights users, rather than a dispute between good-faith wikipedians and others.

For example, in Talk:Gay rights in Australia, Ambi's comments to me where she says "What is your problem with this issue?" is soon afterwards echoed by sockpuppet LOC saying to me "so with all due respect, what is your problem??" None of the incivility by LOC (which included anti-religious bigotry) was criticised by Ambi.

Another example of PSYCH thinking that it merely an opinion dispute is that he was sending friendly messages to Ambi (at User talk:Ambi) even when he was putting vulgar images elsewhere.

In order to deal effectively with POV vandals, it helps if there's a bipartisan opposition to misconduct. Andjam 11:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Or non-partison. Snottygobble 12:25, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Look, I don't condone the harrassment PSYCH has given Xtra. That is utterly not on, and I'm glad that Snottygobble went to all the trouble of expunging any libel from the site. This is not to say, however, that he's always been wrong. The instance Andjam cites was a prime example - where Andjam was trying to keep an uncomfortable fact out of the article at all cost, and was changing tact each time his new excuse was shown to be a nonsense. And what evidence do you have that Lefty on campus is a sockpuppet of PSYCH? In my limited dealings with the former, he's seemed a bit opinionated, but far from the worst. Ambi 02:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * But you have been silent about the harassment LOC has given Xtra. The bit where I was "keeping an uncomfortable fact out ... at all cost" was when it was LOC, not PSYCH, by the way. It seems even you can't tell them apart. Talking of facts, your track record with facts wasn't that good. You reverted in a false claim that IV drug users are able to give blood (twice, with the first instance involving the accidental restoration of peacock terms). As well as being factually inaccurate, it was original research - the only purpose of mentioning the status of IV drug users was to try to discredit red cross policy - LOC went on to say on the talk page that red cross policy was nonsensical. Other half-truths by LOC was his failure to mention that some sexual practices by heterosexuals can earn a ban, and failing to mention that lesbians can give blood. (I'm of the opinion that a couple of veteran editors can be a bit too sure of themselves, not just you.)


 * LOC isn't just opiniated. He's altered other people's comments, for example. As to why I think LOC is a sockpuppet: the two share a similar persona, similar writing styles, similar target of attacks (Xtra in particular), and LOC was largely abandoned once PSYCH was out of parole, except now, where the two are supporting each other. I guess I'm not the sockpuppet hunter, though. Can I ask if your user and talk page been two of the few that haven't been vandalised by PSYCH? Andjam 10:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello everybody. I have found this pasted on Xtra's page

''It appears you've been targeted at the following site: http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48464

Be on the look out for vandalism that might occur on your user page. --Jelligraze 04:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)''

So can we contact this group to tell them that it is unacceptable to run internet personal abuse campaigns against people simply for their beliefs? What can be done. They seem to think that they will try and abuse everybody off wikipedia so that it can Trotsky-pedia? Regards,ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 04:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm just about certain that the vandalism we've been seeing is the actions of a single person with a vandalbot. Rapidfire posting of identical content from a range of open proxy/zombie machines to a fixed set of pages. I could implement such a bot myself in half a day.
 * I reckon the revolutionaryleft recruitment campaign has probably achieved absolutely nothing for our vandal. I imagine the revolutionary left are not incapable of recognising a blatant troll when they see one. Snottygobble 05:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. All the vandalism I've seen has the same peculiar style to it, which is something much harder for a stalker to change than their IP. --Calair 05:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Census
We have a census coming up in August this year. We currently (at least as far as I can tell) haven't any articles on Australian censuses. What format should we use? The Census in the United Kingdom and United States Census are the only substantive examples. --cj | talk 06:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Census in Hong Kong looks good also, I prefer this naming format. -- Longhair 06:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've created a very brief stub at Census in Australia. Maybe a ACOTF candidate? -- Chuq 05:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've nominated it for WP:ACOTF.--cj | talk 06:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Alan Jones
Could do with a couple of editors to have a look at Alan Jones (radio) and help resolve disagreement about how (if at all) Jones' on-air remarks in the leadup to the Cronulla riots should be discussed; 220.239.4.237 and I don't look like coming to agreement on this. --Calair 12:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * All I can say Calair is that you have done a terrific job under difficult circumstances. As soon as people start deleting actual quotes (anonymous people at that), you know something is afoot.  It's called rewriting history.   Taken out of context?  Ok, then, cite the biggest bloody slab you can get your hands on, don't add a single word - let the direct quote do the work for you - readers can judge for themselves.   ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  03:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I feel people have a tendency not to notice opinion or original research when it agrees with themselves, and that it happened in this case. And this is coming from someone who never listens to AJ's show. Andjam 10:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Cyclone Tracy
As part of WikiProject Tropical cyclones, we've been trying to add inline citation to that article so it does not undergo a FARC process. However, we do not have the books that are mentioned in the references section. So, could you help us in keeping that article at par with Featured standards? Tito xd (?!? - help us) 06:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Tony Le-Nguyen spamming Wikipedia with self-promo?
I think I have uncovered vanity bios and self-promotional ads of this guy and his work and have listed 5 of his pages regarding his plays at deletion. I would appreciate if people would check to see if they think he has given himself away at Articles for deletion/Tony Le-Nguyen - if my deduction of autobiography is logical? Regards, ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 02:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Vanity is overruled by Notability as long as the vanity stuff is converted to NPOV. You shouldn't delete something would otherwise have been accepted under notability criteria. Hes probably the best person to write his history, true though, it may need to be pared down, but there are alot of specific details that one wouldn't otherwise have had time to find. There are a few sources at the bottom of the page, still need to be plugged in as sources. I did some elementary cleanup and wikifying of the page. Ans  e  ll  04:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't specifically mean his bio, I meant the community-level theatre productions which he has put up - his work - which I have AfD'd, see the notices at the top of the noticeboard. As I said in the AfD, I think that he is notable enough, though not particularly, but articles about his plays are nn I think.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 04:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge Dairy Farmers Stadium and Stockland Stadium
What do people think about merging the two. The only difference was a change in sponsor, the redevelopment was on the stadium generally, and IMO did not change it into a new article. I think there is too much information being duplicated right now. Ans e  ll  05:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done, in theory. Most of the Stockland Stadium article was redundant, so it just got the chop full stop &mdash; the records, too, as far as I can tell are out of date or unnecessary in the main article.  There were two images that look pretty useful, Image:Image1995.gif and Image:Image821996.gif, but I'm not certain about their copyright status &mdash; they're tagged PD-self, but the source is a "Mr. O'Neill", who sounds like he might be a different fellow to, the uploader and tagger. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 11:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Notable bands
Does anyone know about the notability (or otherwise) of some bands mentioned in the Music of Australia article - Lucius Hunt (band), Snowman (band), Because of Ghosts and Expatriate? -- Chuq 14:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The only one I know personally is Because of Ghosts, who are fairly notable in the post-rock scene, and even seem to be somewhat well-known outside of Austraila. Lankiveil 03:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC).

Featured Articles
Has anyone made a list of Australia related featured articles? It would be something great to put here and on the Australia portal. Xtra 12:42, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I drew up Portal:Australia/List a while ago. It needs to be updated however.--cj | talk 06:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Australia at the Winter Olympics
Australia at the Winter Olympics has become a uncyclopedia wikipedia featured article. Andjam 06:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Watchlist
Not really relevant here, but the new watchlist software is really giving me a headache. Does anyone know why it was changed? Xtra 06:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, but maybe if you go to the Community Portal and whinge like myself and many others, they may restore the old format as an option to us.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 06:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I receive a message The watchlist no longer hides older edits per a change to the code. To hide them, enable "Enhanced recent changes" under 'Recent Changes' in your preferences. at the top of my watchlist. -- Chuq 06:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Selective deletion
Notice to all. I will be deleting the notice board temporarily to remove libel from its history. Please be patient. Thanks, --cj | talk 06:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, finally done. This has got to be one of the most edited pages on Wikipedia. --cj | talk 07:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Another one: Special:Contributions/66.246.218.169. pfctdayelise (translate?) 03:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe it's possible to delete only single edits from the history of articles, and I think administrators can do this (but I forget), which would probably be a more useful thing than deleting everything and starting over. Dysprosia 02:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Map generation using Template:Superimpose
Check out these maps - and then check out the source code. How could a useful tool like this have gone through undetected! Do people think is it worth changing the existing locator maps to this format? -- Chuq 03:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess the question arises as to how well various browsers handle it. If it gets the go-ahead, maybe using latitutude and longitude to calculate the coordinates (in a batch job) would be good. Andjam 03:44, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The maps above are ok in Firefox (well, I aligned the dots in Firefox!) - how are they for others? -- Chuq 07:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I commented out two maps as they were spilling over into other topics. Is that ok? Andjam 06:44, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not a prob! -- Chuq 07:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Not bad -- look kind of ugly though, compared to articles where there is already an image to show where town/city-X is in Australia or in Australian-state-Y. Donama 02:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, both the background image and the dot can be replaced with any image we want - but I think for its function (locating a city on a map) it looks fine. It certainly looks very similar to the existing maps, if not, slightly better. -- Chuq 03:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, I should have realised the template was more robust. No worries then. All the same, some images already there may have extra information than just a dot (such as the nearest capital city or whatever). Also, if we use these two images to superimpose, can we get rid of the faint blue latitude and longitude lines. They're distracting and don't assist understanding. &mdash; Donama 22:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I just realised... We can superimpose any image I guess, so it doesn't have to be just a dot... We could include other dots or text as needed, right? &mdash; Donama 22:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if the superimposed text is unique to the topic in question it rather defeats the purpose of having a generic template. ～J.K. 04:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The map uses the Mercator projection which makes the bottom of Australia look larger than it actually is. I suppose this is the only way to do it for an automated latitude/longitude program but for the main cities I think the current maps look better -- Astrokey44 |talk 01:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, this is only useful for articles, where no location image exists yet, meaning that it could be hard to automate addition of these, but AWB would make it quicker than purely manual, because you could reject the change on pages where you see there is already at least 1 image. Alternatively we could use a special category for towns and cities in Australia needing location images and automate addition of these images on a regular basis. &mdash; Donama 01:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Category:Australian football (soccer) clubs
As for WP:AFL, I have also noticed many soccer clubs which do not meet the notability guidelines. Firstly, I am unconvinced that state league games are of sufficient sporting merit, and are unlikely to be there on grounds of notability. Secondly, there are a lot of clubs which are second division clubs in a state league, which I think should definitely not be there. User:Executive.koala is the majority contributor of these articles.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 06:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

What is the general policy on State based / local sporting clubs? Also a lot of these clubs have not registered the names which are purported to be their official names. Xtra 06:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * WP:BIO says "Sportspeople who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in an individual professional sport, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States. Articles about first team squad members who have not made a first team appearance may also be appropriate, but only if the individual is at a club of sufficient stature that most members of its squad already have articles."


 * Many suburban/regional level teams have been deleted in the past, probably because they can't really be classified as "first-class competition".ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! 06:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Statewide comp is probably notable enough, but not the south east metro comp or something like that. Xtra 06:35, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a merge would be more appropriate in some cases than deletion. Can you point to specific cruftish examples? Andjam 06:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * We had this discussion about a month ago in relation to aussie rules, and Scott gave this opinion which had a fair bit of support (which I now quote word for word, hoping that that is ok):
 * My personal opinion on notability for sportspeople is roughly the precedent set by WikiProject Formula One that everyone who has ever started one F1 race gets an article. I extend that to mean everyone who has competed in an international or national top-level race/game/match passes my notability test. "Top-level" is of course also subjective, but includes first-class cricket matches, Olympic, Commonwealth and Friendly Games, recognised world championships in just about anything. For teams, the league they play in and the place they represent should both have comprehensive articles that would become too large by merging the team info before I'd say the team is worthy of an article in its own right. Teams in national leagues, or state leagues of major sports (in that place) are roughly the level I'd stop at. --Scott Davis Talk 14:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the salient point is that the actual league should possess a "comprehensive" article before even considering articles on individual teams. It seems pointless to have a stub on the league and then a 10,000 word article on one of the teams.  Referring back to soccer - one would have thought that State league clubs would have their own articles (which means any club that has ever made it to State league level).  As for the rest, probably not, although keep in mind the general proposition of a league being able to sustain a largish article in its own right.  With AFL, we are talking about all of the state leagues (VFA/VFL, SANFL, WAFL, QAFL, etc.).  We can throw in the TAC Cup (because so many players are recruited directly from these clubs).  It starts to get murky with the VAFA and the large country leagues (e.g. Ovens and Murray), which brings us back to the article about the league itself.   ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  02:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Categorisation of Australian animals
I have been trying to categorise the Australian animals. Currently, there is Category:Birds of Australia (Created by someone else) Category:Crustaceans of Australia, Category:Fish of Australia (created by someone else), Category:Frogs of Australia, Category:Mammals of Australia, Category:Reptiles of Australia and Category:Australian animals for those without a category. If you find an Australian animals at the species level which is not in any of these categories, could you please add it. No need to go out and look, just keep it in mind as you are going around Wikipeida. Thanks --liquidGhoul 11:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The West Australian newspaper using content from Wikipedia without attribution
I recently found an instance of copyright infringement by one of our "leading" daily newspapers (I was reading the paper and re-read something I'd previously contributed to Wikipedia!). I presume this has happened before, but regardless, I submitted a complaint on 17 April 2006. As of 21 April 2006 there has been no response. See the discussion here: Talk:Roe Highway. Ian peters 11:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Take it to Media Watch or something ;) I would also put your complaint to them in writing as well, due to its serious nature. Dysprosia 23:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You may find advice at Mirrors and forks useful and also Standard GFDL violation letter--A Y Arktos\talk 00:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Auckland Meetup
Just to let you know that a meetup is planned in Auckland for the 25th of June (see Meetup/Auckland for more details), and you guys are cordially invited. GeorgeStepanek\talk 23:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

CSIRO is new ACOTF
Australia Day was ACOTF from 2 April 2006 to 23 April 2006 (three weeks)
 * 6 contributors made 8 edits
 * See how much it changed while selected and how it changed since nomination.

The new selection is Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation. With 13 nominations, it should do well. It has not received the editing while nominated that Australia Day received. --Scott Davis Talk 14:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Maps
Is there/does anyone know of a capable (and willing) map maker on wikipedia? I need a crude paint-drawn map turned into something spectacular for use in the City of Burnside article. Any help would be appreciated! michael talk 06:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you want, Michael... A map with the roads shown? It is easy to whip up in photoshop/GIMP by tracing... &mdash; Донама 01:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's the image, added to commons. I kept the unflattened Photoshop source file in case I made a mistake or you want to change the colour scheme. Michael, if you want the source file, please email me. &mdash; Донама 06:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You might like to export it in SVG format, if possible, that's the preferred format for diagrams and maps such as this. --bainer (talk) 07:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok sure, but the road lines are not vectored shapes I'm afraid - just ordinary raster shapes. Do you still think it shuold be exported as SVG? The text is unrasterised. Michael's asked for some corrections so I will be exporting it again. &mdash; Донама 05:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, if it's not already in vectors there's no point exporting as SVG. The reason I suggested it was because Commons have rules about acceptable and preferred file types, they prefer SVG for diagrams etc if they are in vector format, but PNG is fine if the image is just rasterised. --bainer (talk) 05:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * (after edit conflict) SVG or PNG are better for this sort of thing - JPEG is designed and tuned for photographs. --Scott Davis Talk 06:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Old Tom
Old Tom was a killer whale who lived around Eden, New South Wales and who helped whalers round up and kill baleen whales in return for thier lips and tounge. As far as we know this is the only example of this happening anywhere in the world. An Australian first as it were. When i was a the Eden Killer Whale museum i think they said that Old Tom used to help the aborigines before europeans came along, but i couldn't see anything on thier site about it. I think there is a book about this which should be avaliable at the state/national/universtiy type big libraries. Anyway, I've made a stub but don't have any time to expand it. Anyone here interested? The bellman 07:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Criminal trial in Gosford
There's at least one person facing court over allegations of some fairly horrific crimes. Would the allegations be notable enough for a wikipedia article? Also, should current trials have a category in Current and future event templates? Thanks, Andjam 10:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably better for Wikinews at this point. We have had articles on trials as they happen, such as the Murdoch trial (the Falconio case), but only for the really notorious ones, Murdoch's trial was getting front page media coverage across the country, for example. --bainer (talk) 13:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Popularity of Aussie rules revisited
This issue has drawn a lot of attention over the past 9 months or so. In this morning's The Australian newspaper, Patrick Smith, a regular columnist, writes:
 * Vigorous administration will chase its vision at rapid pace
 * COMMENT
 * Patrick Smith
 * April 27, 2006
 * THE AFL is doing very nicely, thank you. It is not just the 91,234 crowd that turned up for Tuesday's Anzac Day match that is the undeniable indicator. The AFL commission has recently viewed a 67-page document that says the competition is in health so rude it is borderline boorish.
 * Look every which way, for it doesn't matter. The AFL is the dominant national sport. Here's a snap shot:


 * The league draws the largest weekly TV audience;
 * It generates more than double the income of any competing code;
 * It is the most affordable sport;
 * It has the highest total audience;
 * It has the richest broadcast deal;
 * It has the biggest following;
 * It leads sport in total TV audience;
 * It dominates participation (a player must be registered and played minimum six games) and talent nationally;
 * It leads sporting industry in brand recognition;
 * Print coverage nationally doubles exposure of other sports;

I understand that this is neither here or there, and that it is a minor issue in the scheme of things. At the same time, the aussie rules article does get a lot of ill-informed criticism (and out and out vandalism), and so it's not a bad little extract to keep up our sleeves for the next time this argument flares up again. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  22:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * So... post this on the talk page instead of here, where it will be quickly swallowed up in archive? pfctdayelise (translate?) 00:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Why post a message about the Australian game on the Australian Wikipedians' notice board? An article that probably receives as much attention as anything else mentioned on this page?  An article about an Australian subject that is actually vandalised more often than not by Australians?  Why did I post it here?  In fact, I posted it in three spots, including the one you suggest.  But when the great Australin game needs to be discussed, then for me, this is always my first port of call.  It's a place where I hope I might stumble on like-minded people, who appreciate the important things in life - who understand the things dear to an Australian's heart!  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  01:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - a lot of those points are bollocks. ODI cricket has a much higher TV audience per game than Australian Rules, but because there aren't half a dozen matches on TV every week, AFL wins through sheer attrition.  Likewise, the "dominates participation" is a bit funny - it's a lot easier to kick a football around a park with a couple of dozen guys, than it is to get all the cricket gear, find a good pitch, and play for five days.  While I don't doubt that in terms of raw numbers AFL wins out there, it only wins out when the rules are shifted to favour football codes.  Plus, I think you'll find that Australian Rules definitely plays second fiddle to Rugby League in Queensland, the NT, and much of NSW. Lankiveil 03:25, 27 April 2006 (UTC).

Everyone knows Rugby is more popular in NSW and QLD (no NT) but that doesnt answer the fact that aussie rules is far more popular nationally. Xtra 03:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You'll have no argument from me that it's probably the most popular sport in Victoria, as well as SA and WA. But it's definitely in second or even third place in NSW and QLD, who all love their rugby league.  It's hard to argue that it's truly a "national sport" when it only gets a summary mention after the league on the news in two of the biggest cities in the country.  AFL can only boast such impressive stats because it dominates in Victoria. Lankiveil 03:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC).


 * This is what I mean about Australians being the most vociferous in their criticism of their own football code. I'm quoting an article by a recognised sports columnist - and don't think that Patrick Smith is biased - he is an astute observer of sport, and he gives it to the AFL with both barrells on a regular basis.  The reasons and explanations why this report is coming up with all these stats is not the story (e.g. the Victorians have nothing better to do, Sydney siders have a real life, the culture is different between the various cities, etc.) - the stats themselves are the story.  All I am saying is that those that contribute to the various aussie rules pages are continuously being attacked for exaggerating how popular the sport is, we continually come up with the numbers, but we continually get attacked.  The raw numbers tell the story:  AFL memberships are as much all other football codes added together; AFL crowds are as much as all other football codes added together and their new television rights are as much as all other football codes added together (the television rights are embarassingly high, considering the song and dance soccer is making about its deal with pay television which includes all international games except for the World Cup - my view is that it is an absolute blessing that we won't have to watch any nil all draws on free to air).  Participation rates are probably in favour of soccer - although Patrick Smith appears to be saying that that is not the case - interesting!  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  04:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Australians are always going to be the most likely top criticize AFL, it doesn't exist internationally to any first-class standard and is restricted to a few expats and their personal friends who kick a ball around in the park. Also I think Patrick Smith is a ranter. Proper journalists don't write the style he does against Lleyton Hewitt even when they do have valid points. Peter Roebuck is the only proper columnist in the paper I think.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 05:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The data quoted by Smith comes from an internal AFL document that has not been made public but to which The Australian was given limited access. I agree that Smith's column is opinion/editorial rather than reporting of news. If and when The Australian properly reports on the document, then if would be preferable to cite the report rather than Smith's opinion piece. Until then, I think it is reasonable to cite Smith's column in support of these claims. Snottygobble 05:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Jake Kovco
I am missing something or spelling something wrong or do we not have an article on Jake Kovco (first aussie military death in Iraq)? The bellman 08:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC) Update: Sorry, don't know what was wrong. I thought we must have had one but it wasn't showing up.

Commandment Rock
I had a go at wikifying the article Commandment Rock (apparently a rock in Lane Cove River National Park, Sydney with one or all of the Ten Commandments carved in it). I added the verify tag as the information seemed like hearsay ("Related to me in 1987 by a descendent of the sailor.") - this text has now been removed. See the discussion page for details, but the only reference I could find to this rock was slightly contradictory (one commandment not all ten). Was hoping some Sydneysiders could have a look, clean up the article a bit, and if possible verify and correct the information? Thanks, Canley 03:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Notability check
While checking out what articles link to Adelaide, I came across Where's the Pope?. Does the band sound notable enough to qualify for wikipedia? Also, is there a good place to ask for a checking of notability? Thanks, Andjam 03:52, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that playing the BDO and having records released on a label (as opposed to self-released) makes them worthy of inclusion. There are lots of guidelines for this sort of thing at WP:MUSIC. Lankiveil 05:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC).


 * Playing BDO would make them notable. But that would need to be sourced, and the official past lineups list only includes acts that played more then one show (ie. acts that toured and went to more than one city). --bainer (talk) 05:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Really? A lot of bands have played BDO in even one city. :) On one hand, we need Adelaide punk fans to assess this. Do we have WP:ADELAIDE or WP:ADEL? OTOH, if you prod it, I'm almost certain that it will die a quiet death. pfctdayelise (translate?) 15:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Sydney Meetup/workshop?
I'm a member of Engineers Without Borders (Australia), and am trying to get other people in the organisation interested in using and developing the articles on Appropriate technology and the WikiProject International development. There is already some interest, but a lack of knowledge and I think a lack of appreciation for how significant a resource Wikipedia can become. So I was thinking of organising a day where we could invite people to come to hear & see how Wikipedia works. The focus would be on development-related issues, but anyone would be welcome. The specific focus would allow us to focus on specific issues and examples, and get a likeminded group of people together, throwing ideas around.

I'm sure that some people from the Greens and people on the Aidwatch and Oxfam mailing lists would also be interested.

It would be good to have a location with a number of computers available. A university computer room would be ideal. Any suggestions? It's hard to know how many would turn up - if we could get half a dozen I think it would be quite worthwhile. And the process of publicising the event would be an act of awareness-raising in itself.

I was thinking of late May or early June, on a weekend. --Singkong2005 15:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I see the importance of the kind of editing drive you're talking about, Singkong. I'm not in Sydney much though. Have you written any papers or something about the role of informatics/IT&T engineering in development? &mdash; Донама 01:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No - it's not my area (I'm a water & sanitation engineer). But there are articles about ICT in development - the ones in the appropriate technology category are Wind-up radio, Simputer, $100 laptop & Jhai Foundation. Is that the kind of thing you're talking about? --Singkong2005 02:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)