Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 20

Category: Australian drinking establishments
This was posted on my talk page by Amitch, and I think that a centralized discussion would be handy.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 00:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 *  Hi, I am looking to do some cleanup on the articles in the above but I'm stuck with what the naming convention should be. Most of them are just called: Pub name  or Pub Name, Suburb. I took a look around and read some of the naming convention articles and see three options: Pub name, Suburb    OR  Pub name, Suburb, State    OR Pub name, Suburb, Australia.  The o/seas pubs aren't much help either. Can I get your thoughts on this?  amitch 13:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 


 * How about Pub name if it's pretty unique sounding (we can change it to be at the Pub name, Australia article later if it turns out to be not quite so unique, eg. Maid and Magpie in SA)? For places like "Queens Arms" or "Brighton Hotel" which are bound to be replicated all over the Anglophone world, Pub name, City/suburb/town is in order I think. What do others think? &mdash; Донама 01:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer building name, town for Buildings and structures in Australia. This seems to be the convention for building and street names that could repeat in other places, although the guideline seems to omit the comma. --Scott Davis Talk 14:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Building name, Town seems to be the way we've usually handled this elsewhere, and I think deals with the issue succinctly. Ambi 02:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, but note that this will result in quite a few Name, Suburb, State titles, given the number of town/suburb names which exist in more than one state. JPD (talk) 10:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Beaconsfield
With the amount of press this is getting, I think we really need an article on this. Any suggestions for a title? Beaconsfield mine disaster? Beaconsfield mine collapse? Ambi 01:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "disaster" perhaps too strong a word given the latest news - either the latter or Beaconsfield mine collapse and rescue (although I accept it is perhaps starting to get a touch too long and we shouldn't count our chickens before they hatch). ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  02:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Prefer "Beaconsfield mine collapse" since it's agnostic as to whether it was a disaster or other kind of event. &mdash; Донама 02:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, Beaconsfield mine collapse describes the event consisely. Ans  e  ll  02:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Started and stubbed article at this title. Could move to "2006 Beaconsfield mine collapse" to follow the format of certain other disastrous events. &mdash; Донама 03:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I started adding content to Beaconsfield, Tasmania when it happened. I thought if I created a whole new article it would get deleted or merged :P I will now merge the "collapse" section of the Beaconsfield article. -- Chuq 03:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Woops, I already kind of collapsed that one for you, Chuq. &mdash; Донама 03:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Canadian Royal Family
I am not sure whether to laugh or cry but there is an article on the Canadian Royal Family. The Canadian Government does indeed seem to have a web site on the Canadian Royal family. I didn't find an equivalent Australia Government web site - perhaps we are ahead of our Canadian cousins in some respects.--A Y Arktos\talk 01:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That's pretty amusing. It's technically true, as well, I suppose.  Lankiveil 05:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC).
 * The only assertion that I can find on the website that the British Royal Family is the "Canadian Royal Family" is this end-of-page small text. It seems to be only an effort by a Canadian royalist on the flimsiest of evidence. Constitually and legallly, there is no such thing as an 'indigenous' royal family in any of the Realms.--cj | talk 05:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well if we want our own I guess we just duplicate this page and change occurances of 'Canada' to 'Australia'. "The current Canadian Royal Family are members of the House of Windsor, many members of which also comprise the British Royal Family." !!! - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 06:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There's already a fantastic article over at Monarchy in Australia, no need to add something that is already covered appropriately. michael talk 06:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What a load of garbage. There might be an argument for it if the family of our monarch were to adopt titles like "Prince of New South Wales" or "Duke of Cape York", though ;-) JPD (talk) 08:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Queen of Victoria?? Xtra 12:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that the article on Monarchy in Australia is good and appropriate; it is all the better for not listing say Princess Michael of Kent as being a member of the "Australian Royal Family". I fail to see Princess Michael's constitutional role in Australia (or Canada).  Cyberjunkie, for a reliable source as to whether there is a Canadian Royal family, there is a web page published by the Canadian Government's Department of Heritage, the page is called "Royal Family" and it is linked from the page "The Canadian Monarchy".  I did not find any equivalent Australian Government page, but perhaps I wasn't searching effectively enough, or perhaps we have more sense.--A Y Arktos\talk 11:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The "Canadian Monarchy" and "Royal Family" are not the "Canadian Royal Family", a phrase I found only once at the link abovementioned. There is a Canadian monarchy, as there is an Australian one, but there is no Canadian or Australian royal family.--cj | talk 05:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Bakhtiari deportation controversy
Is it just me or do we not have an article on this? I tried all different names I could think of... nothing. (If in case we don't, there's a good timeline to start with here.) pfctdayelise (translate?) 15:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't find one either - using Bakhtiari or Bakhtiyari. --Scott Davis Talk 23:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Used Wiki Wax to try and find something but had the same trouble. I would strongly support an improvement drive for Australian_immigration or that entire article and also to start one specifically about the Bakhtiari case. &mdash; Донама 02:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I made it a WP:ACOTF candidate. pfctdayelise (translate?) 22:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

National Farmers' Federation
And while we're on the topic, can I ask exactly the same question as pfctdayelise asked above but with the topic being the NFF? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roisterer (talk • contribs)


 * It seems not. --Scott Davis Talk 23:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree this is also pretty important article and couldn't find it either. We can start at National Farmers Union for an idea of how the parallel article has been done for UK and US equivalents. &mdash; Донама 02:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks to Donama for promptly creating an article on the NFF. --Roisterer 10:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Experimental Sydney Locator Map
Hi All,

I've been on a wikibreak, and so I missed the above section about Map generation using Template:Superimpose until now. What a bloody fantastic template - but we can do so much more with it! .... So, I'm now trying to take the next logical step, which is generate a metro area map to show suburb locations. This can be done by combining four elements, namely:
 * 1) Template:Superimpose.
 * 2) The long + lat coordinate data that we already have against every Sydney suburb.
 * A map of Sydney.
 * 1) The new #expr parser functions to do the maths to work out where to show the marker.

This has been done in Template:Sydney Locator Map.

You can now see some examples of this being used for three Sydney suburbs: Bundeena, Warragamba, and Palm Beach (you may need to scroll down to see the map).

For the people who live somewhere that's not Sydney, the same basic approach should also work for you too. Note however that currently this is very much an experiment, so potentially you might want to hang back a bit and see what happens and whether it works out okay or not.

What do people think of this? Useful, or not useful?

Open questions I have are:
 * Can we add borders to the map, and/or right align it, and/or add a caption? (I haven't looked into Template:Superimpose yet to see whether this is possible).
 * Is it desirable to add this to Template:Mapit-AUS-suburbscale, so that all suburbs in a city will have this, without having to manually add it? (e.g. we could have if lat/long are in Sydney show location on a Sydney map, if lat/long are in Melbourne show location on a Melb map, if lat/long are in Canberra etc etc, else don't show a map).
 * Is it even technically possible to add this to Template:Mapit-AUS-suburbscale? My reading of the #ifexpr parser function makes me think the answer is "no", because of the way it handles the "|" symbol.

Comments / ideas / ways of improving all welcome as usual.

All the best, Nickj (t) 06:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a great idea, but what about using this Sydney map which is more colourful and has some of the main locations written on it? --Astrokey 44 08:52, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be nice to have a version like that, using the LGA boundaries. Either way, I like the maps, but not the way they have been placed in the external links section. JPD (talk) 15:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That does look nice, but I cannot read any of the labels, which sort of makes them redundant. Lankiveil 04:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC).

Popularity of aussie rules revisited (2)
Not long ago I made reference to an opinion piece in The Australian by Patrick Smith that referred to an AFL commissioned report that indicated that most of the relevant stats point to aussie rules being ahead of all other sports by an absolute country mile in every indicator imaginable. That is my summation of what Mr Smith had to say. I was rightly questioned why I would copy that info to this notice board. My reasoning can be seen from this quote from the article Australia:
 * At an international level, Australia has particularly strong teams in cricket, hockey, netball, rugby league, rugby union, and performs well in cycling and swimming. Nationally, other popular sports include Australian rules football, football (soccer), and motor racing.

"other popular sports include aussie rules..." with a ho ho ho. I am not going to get involved in this, but if anyone honestly thinks that this truly reflects the sporting landscape in Australia, well, three big letters come to my mind and you all know what they are. The rugby fraternity might be pleased with themselves in dumping aussie rules into the same basket (case) as soccer, when, as I have said previously, AFL memberships, crowds, TV earnings and merchandising sales are as much in AFL as all the other codes combined. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from these facts, but please do not respond with: Melburnians have nothing else to do, it's simply a difference in culture, etc. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  07:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. That paragraph doesn't give enough credit to what is undoubtedly our national sport, Footy. Carn the Crows! michael talk 07:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you guys keep in mind that notice boards are for talking about wikipedia, not about the subjects mentioned? Also, keep in mind no original research - if you're arguing about whether or not a sport is popular, that's original research. Andjam 07:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand your point - this whole noticeboard is full of subjects - in fact it appears to be about nothing else but subjects! I am quoting a newspaper article  - isn't that what happens every minute of the day?  Where does OR come into it?  (especially since there is nothing original about it) It is true that I could be directed to the talk page of Australia, but once a page is "owned" by a select few - do you honestly believe that a quick change will be left to stand or a comment on the talk page will suffice?  In fact, this isn't really about the subject - it's about the generic issue of introducing new material (backed to the hilt with all the stats you could ever wish to swim in) and not being able to get too far because of "ownership" (something that Wikipedia is not meant to be about, but...).  This is wikipedia!  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  08:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * See Talk_page and Talk_page_guidelines. With regards to original research, your statement "Feel free to draw your own conclusions from these facts" is a sign of original research - you've used several facts to come up with a conclusion, which is a form of original research. Andjam 08:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I took your cue, and immediately stumbled on this gem: Arguing as a means of improving an article is considerably less effective than an equal amount of time engaged in research.  Now that's a Catch-22 if I ever saw one!  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  12:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd actually agree with that statement, though I can't think of any examples other than this right now. Andjam 14:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems there are a lot of people who are involved in Australian sport articles. Why not create a wikiproject for it. You already have one for AFL, I am sure it would be good for the sports people to have their petty little arguments in a place where everyone will be interested. This board is not a sports debate board, yet it is flooded with sports debates (more specifically, codes of footy). If you look at the other subjects that are on this board, they will either state something, ask something, or invite people to a debate which is somewhere else. --liquidGhoul 11:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, there's already WikiProject Australian sports. Andjam 14:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Am I to face the Australian people and declare to them that the Australian Wikipedians' notice board is actually off limits to the discussion of sport, including all forms of friendly inter-code debate (much less banter)?  I can already hear the howls of protest and derision...  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  11:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Am I going to have to RFC your behind? Andjam 11:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I know many struggle to understand the prime position aussie rules has in Australian history and her culture, perhaps this quote from today's Age, by John Harms, will assist in a small way: As I clicked through the turnstile at the MCG...I was reminded that the battles on Corio Oval during the 1880s, when Geelong won half a dozen premierships, weren't just footy matches, they were about Geelong people righting injustice (that Melbourne had connived to become the capital city of Victoria over Geelong).  Similar tales can be told about most senior clubs in Australia, they all have a similar tale to tell, and invariably they take us back to pre-Federation days - even in Sydney, which has a few clubs dating back to the 1890s.  More often than not, the tales, the folklore, the mystique, of certain clubs take us back to the 1860s and 1870s (1859 in the case of Melbourne).  Now, apart from the Melbourne Cup and cricket, both extremely important in terms of Austrlian culture, what other sport in has left as large a footprint on Australian history, folklore and culture as Australian football?  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  02:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Aussie Rules? More like Victorian Grammar School Rules. To argue that most Australians care about the preferred pasttime of a few Victorian communists and homosexuals is preposterous! What game did Brant Webb and Todd Russell want to play when they got out of that mine? It wasn't a game invented in Victoria, I can assure you of that! What Footy Show consistently outrates the other one in two of the three biggest television markets in the country? No surprise, given that one features men's men like Paul "Fatty" Vautin, who's still tough enough to crack his head on a concrete slab and front up for that night's show, versus another show featuring an effeminate quiz show host that wears more makeup than Courtney Love? What game does little Aussie hero Jandamarra O'Shane dream of playing for Australia? Which code of football has a leading football club owned by international superstar Russell Crowe? Apart from the aforementioned quiz show host, is there anyone even remotely interesting in the Victorian Football management? What game were the ANZACs thinking about when they came ashore at Gallipoli? Which code has the highest rating game on televison, not just in Brisbane and Sydney, but nation-wide?

It's RUGBY LEAGUE, the king of football, that's what.

Harry O'Brien
The Heritier O'Brien article (and Wikipedia) was today cited in the Herald Sun's Main Game section, where Mark Robinson conducted an interview with the man. Was wondering how we make it noticed that the article has been referenced in the press?  R o  gerthat  Talk  10:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You might want to list it at Wikipedia as a press source 2006. I think there is also a template to put on the article's talk page. JPD (talk) 10:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The template, Template:Authoronlinesource2006 is what you need for the talk page. Talk:Crazy Frog has plenty of in-use examples of this template, plus several other examples. -- Longhair 07:41, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Jeff Kennett
This page has seen quite a bit of editing since Jeff gave the press a big story a couple of days ago. Please any experienced editors come and assist in raising the standard of this article. It has numerous uncited political claims - some scathing, some glowing - and can't decide between any number of POVs about which one it likes most. A source hunt or a more balanced re-write is required. Thanks in advance if you can help. Harr o 5 11:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Taking a glance at it, I can't see anything in it that is wrong or particularly biased, but what is there could certainly be worded better. It seems like a good candidate for an Adam Carr rewrite. Ambi 12:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a shame Adam says he doesn't edit articles on living Australian politicians - so one of two things needs to happen for Adam to do a re-write. Choosing which one is best I will leave as a decision for the reader! -- Chuq 10:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, it's currenty serving pollies Adam won't touch, so Kennett need not meet an untimely end at the hands of a crazed Kangaroos supporter for him to get his article looked at. Whether Adam's up for it is another matter, of course, and he's on holiday at the moment in any case... ～J.K. 04:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

New South Wales v Commonwealth (Workplace Relations Challenge)
If there are any Canberrians about with cameras, could someone pop down to the High Court on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of this week to catch some of the action? This is the case challenging the WorkChoices legislation and it's sure to be very significant. The courts are open to the public, but I'm not sure what the policy on photography is, though some in-court photos would be excellent. --bainer (talk) 14:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * no cameras allowed. --Sumple (Talk) 14:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh well, I guess we'll have to Photoshop one then :P Just stitch together a generic photo of a courtoom, some generic barristers and the judges. enochlau (talk) 01:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever!? Kinda seems a bit pointless to make a photoshop illustration that appears to be a photo for WP... Any enterprising Canberrian with a sketchpad and coloured pencils could do one of those courtroom illustrations we're used to seeing in newspapers. Alternatively, take photos of protesters or whatever outside the courtroom as legal teams, etc, march inside. &mdash; Донама 04:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ummm, I wasn't being serious? enochlau (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, I could wander down of a lunchtime - it might be fun and I can fulfill a life time's ambition of doing a Jimmy Olsen. (link provided for those born post 1988) ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  11:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Qantas Flight 1
What do you expect to find article Qantas Flight 1 is about? I was surprised it is not a general article about one of the Kangaroo routes. Further discussion is on that article's talk page and possibly Wikiproject airlines. --Scott Davis Talk 07:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Surf lifesaving is now ACOTF
CSIRO was WP:ACOTF from 23 April 2006 to May 7 2006
 * 9 contributors made 20 edits
 * The article increased from 461 words/3020 characters to 976 words/6280 characters - over 2 times longer
 * See how it changed

The new ACOTF is Surf lifesaving. I allowed it some leeway on time as it had the most votes, and Australia Day received an extra week, throwing some of the other candidates (including this one) out of whack.

Comments suggest the following could also be within scope for improvement: nippers, flags (sport), Surf Life Saving Club, Surf carnival, March past. --Scott Davis Talk 13:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

New Wikiproject for Aussie towns and cities
What do you all think about creating a wiki project to standardise our towns, suburbs, communities? There is already a lot of standardisation amongst many suburbs and towns -- particularly the naming convention (which is a good headstart) but it's difficult to know how to create a new town or suburb article for a newcomer except by following some other example. A wiki project would help.

The Dutch, German, French municipality wiki projects are probably ahead of us here, not to mention the UK subdivisions and plethora of USA town/city categorisation projects.

I'm not sure what would be most helpful, perhaps a standard infobox for Australian suburbs, another for towns...? An agreed-upon precision for geo coords? Automated creation of stub articles for each missing article in each state's list of towns and list of suburbs? But before this, do you think it is worth starting a new wiki project to assist with this kind of decision-making and collaboration? &mdash; Донама 05:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Forgot to mention -- this ties in with the above discussion about the superimpose template and some discussion I saw somewhere earlier about automatically applying the "coor d/dm/dms" template to Australian towns and cities, where it's absent, with values sourced from www.ga.gov.au. &mdash; Донама 05:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Good idea. For exmaple, in the Perth articles, the LGA and their associated suburb are still lumped together. I think they should be split.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 05:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Being so envious of the organisation of the Dutch municipalities project, I went ahead and created "Aussie Cities and Towns" (WP:ACAT) wiki project as a "parent" project of the existing 9 Aussie city wiki projects.

Please help in setting it up if you're interested in getting some nationwide standardisation (or even just guidelines, nice-looking templates, etc) of town and city articles happening. I wrote in the scope that this new project would explicitly absorb any standards we've already developed for the cities, and to have a special focus on how to standardise the articles about communities with smaller populations. &mdash; Донама 07:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Post-Beaconsfield
Now that the bulk of the event is over - check out the 'Beaconsfield, Tasmania' changes in the last two weeks, as well as the changes to 'Richard Carleton', and the entire article Beaconsfield mine collapse. Great work to everyone who contributed! It would have been a good ACOTF except it was the impromptu-ness of it that resulted in such interest and growth. We even have the image spot on the In the news section on the Main Page at the moment! -- Chuq 23:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * And opposite is today's featured article: Flag of Australia. I didn't even know it was an FA! --Scott Davis Talk 11:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile, Age of Umpires is the uncyclopedia main page article. (Not really Australia-related, but close...) Andjam 14:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Torres Strait
Does anyone know of an online list of all the islands (inhabited and uninhabited) in the Torres Strait Islands? Wikipedia could use one. --Peta 14:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Try http://www.ga.gov.au and http://www.multimap.com in conjunction with each other. --Phenss 12:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

New Australian portal in it.wiki
I don't know how many Australian portals there are in other wikipedias, but the Italian wikipedia has just opened one, at it:Portale:Australia. Please feel free to add any useful links back to en.wiki or anywhere else for that matter. You can also add comments in English in the talk page, I find that the bulk of the regular Italian wikipedians have a pretty good grasp of English. I've already added a link to this notice board. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  22:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There are apparently Polish and German ones too: de:Portal:Australien, pl:Portal:Australia &mdash; Донама 02:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

University of New England cleanup
I notice that the controversial students association at the University of New England has bitten the dust and been wound up. This makes several of our articles (most of which needed cleanup anyway) out of date. Would someone be able to fix up this mess? Rebecca 04:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Federal Budget
It struck me this morning that 2006 Australian federal budget mightn't make for a bad article. Anyone else agree? Rebecca 04:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure. Wouldn't it have to be 2006-2007, however? I've written a couple of Wikinews articles that may be relevant also. Dysprosia 04:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have the budget papers in front of me right now, and probably 2006-07 is best. Here are a few dot points to get us started:
 * oodles of cash available temporarily
 * it has been spread far and wide
 * eveyone is a winner...
 * ...except of course the leader of the opposition.
 * ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  05:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You forgot to add:


 * ...except of course Wikipedian "Lankiveil" =(
 * Lankiveil 05:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Enjoy your two sandwiches and a milkshake this year. enochlau (talk) 02:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Kim Beazley has some room to manouvre then. Capitalistroadster 05:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright question
I am interested in the possibility of adding an image from the State Library of Victoria collection to Caulfield Grammar School; specifically, this image or this image. The library owns reproduction rights, but the Copyrights page has the follwing passages:
 * You may download, display, print and reproduce this material in an unaltered form and with copyright acknowledged provided this is for personal and non-commercial use, or for the purposes of research or study, criticism or review, or reporting the news as permitted under the Copyright Act 1968. (the bolding is mine)


 * If you wish to copy, adapt, publish, distribute or commercialise any material presented on this website you must get written permission from the Library and a fee may be charged. Unauthorised commercial publication or reproduction of any part of this website is specifically prohibited. For further information, please see the Permissions page.

I can't ever understand copyright law. Could someone advise me of the status of these images? Most likely I'd have to seek permission for use, unfortunately. 01:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Generally images that require permission and have non-commerical clauses should not be uploded to Wikipedia. But in this case both of those images were published in Australia prior to 1955, and are in the public domain in Australian, just tag them PD-Australia.--Peta 01:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've uploaded the better of the two pics (and the one with a publishing date) here. Could someone just double-check my description is adequate? And thanks to Petaholmes for the copyright advice. Harr o 5 09:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks good, you might wat to crop off the surrounding white space, using microsoft paint or something similar so it looks better as a thumbnail.--Peta 09:58, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I cropped it, straightened it a little and ran it through the auto contrast filter. --bainer (talk) 11:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Bazza, Gazza, Wozza, etc.
Is there a collective noun for these very Australian nicknames? I ask because someone has created an article about them. It was first called Hezza but that is now a redirect to Michael Heseltine. The article is now called Gazza (nickname). It had a very UK slant to it, but after I rased debate on Talk:Hezza, it has more of an Australian slant. I suspect the UK use started after The Adventures of Barry McKenzie film. Gazza (nickname) is a terrible name for this article. If we can not find a better title, I think the article will have to be deleted. --Bduke 02:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Redirect Bazza to Barry (name), Gazza to Garry, etc. I know many might disagree with this, but frankly I'd have no time for these. In the international scheme of things, the Aussie habit of shortening "xxxxx" to "xxza" or to "xxxxs" should be documented but I don't think all the possible cases can be documented. Could redirect it to the existing article about Australian English and add it as a section there perhaps? &mdash; Донама 03:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

One problem is that the main editor of the article thinks that recent British useage, about politicians, such as Tony Blair saying "I prefer Prezza to Hezza" is more notable than Australian useage. --Bduke 05:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * May well be -- add it to the article about British English I say :) &mdash; Донама 05:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The Big Abalone, Melbourne
Is this Melbourne landmark notable? There's an image of it here-- Longhair 15:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd never heard of it. It's stuck on the middle of an industrial estate near the junction of the Western Ring Road and the Princes Freeway in a part of Melbourne where no tourist ever goes (though they might zip down the freeway on the way to the Surf Coast, the abalone wouldn't be visible from the freeway) and no local ever goes unless they've got business with one of the factories.  Delete the article as non-notable. --Robert Merkel 22:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest merge to Laverton North, Victoria, but that suburb doesn't have an article yet. --Scott Davis Talk 00:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest adding it to the list of big things in Aus. (I'm pretty sure there is one), and redirecting there.--Peta 00:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's listed at Australia's Big Things already. I think it's a candidate for deletion. As Robert Merkel says, which tourist ever visits an industrial area, unless on business? -- Longhair 00:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't bother with deletion, just redirect it.--Peta 00:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. The things you find on Wikipedia eh. What next, Geelong's big fish? :) -- Longhair 00:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Leadership change in the ACT
The ACT has a new Opposition Leader this afternoon, with Bill Stefaniak's successful challenge against Brendan Smyth. We've had articles on every state and territory Premier, Chief Minister and Opposition Leader for a few months now, so it'd be good to keep this up. Would someone be able to write this one? Stefaniak has been an MP for so long that I don't have either the time or resources to do an article in my usual style. Rebecca 04:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've created the article Bill Stefaniak, it's very stubby though. --Canley 06:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violation?
Most of the Nanango, Queensland page has been copied word-for-word from this website. Can someone check it out please? QazPlm 07:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, the text was cut and past from an external source. Next time you find a page like this, revert it to the last copyvio free version. --Peta 07:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Will do! Thanks for taking care of that, Peta! QazPlm 10:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Flame Trees / Flame Trees (single)
The same song performed by different artists. Both releases from 1984 and 2006 seem very popular. What's the general consensus here? Merge, or allow both articles to stand? -- Longhair 21:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge them, and set out the other cover versions as well. That's what's usually done for this sort of thing. Rebecca 22:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, I did a simple merge of these. &mdash; Donama 01:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Immigrant categories
Just noticed the recent changes to categories applied to Cornelia Rau's article. Is she a German emmigrant, an Australian German, a German person living in Australia or what? Probably all of the above. I noticed Mayumashu changed the category Category:German emigrants to Category:Australian people of German descent, but since the latter isn't a child of the former I re-added the former. Then today Jcaragonv added Category:German Australians to her article. She is also in the Category:Australian people cat. That's a total of four categories all to do with her nationality/ethnicity/place of residence. Surely a maximum of three would be required!?

In related discussions, I noticed all of the "Xxxx emigrants" categories are being proposed for deletion. I think the idea is that these will be replaced by the "Yyyy people of Xxxx descent" category. If anyone here is really invovled in this discussion could they please explain how it's meant to work here -- particularly since Australia tends to be very rich in immigrants or people who are second generation Aussies but still identify as some specific ethnicity apart from Australia or even have citizenship in some other country. Thanks! &mdash; Donama 01:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Doesn't Category:Australian people of German descent cover it all? Perhaps the only time that it wouldn't would be where a German-born person has lived a short time in Australia without taking out citizenship, but I guess that would simply make them German.  Would we call someone Australian if they were not a citizen of Australia?  The only other question re ethnicity is where the adjective is not related to a nation-state, for example:  flemish, catalan and sardinian.  Can they be used?  I would have thought yes, but I have come across people with very strong views contrary to this notion.  I notice that Jelena Dokic is listed as both a Serbian tennis player and an Australian tennis player, but not an Australian of Serbian descent.  Serbia is actually currently a part of a nation-state called Serbia and Montenegro, for how much longer, I am not sure.  But I guess that answers my question about using adjectives to describe ethnicity that do not relate directly to the official name of the nation-state.  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  06:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Then how about people like Nick Riewoldt or Adam Ramanauskas, who are born and bred Australians with German and Latvian descent? They are still classed under "German Australians" but that would be much different to someone who was born in Germany, for example.  R o  gerthat  Talk  03:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I would have thought that they both represent a classic case of being Category:Australian people of German descent. That seems to me a more apt description than Category:German Australians.  And while I'm at it, wouldn't Category:Australian people of Italian descent be better than Category:Italo-Australians or Category:Italian Australians?  Actually, is it really possible that the largest non-Anglo-Celt ethnic group in Australia has no category?  ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  12:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Anu Singh
Anyone heard of her? Came up on IRC... Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 15:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, but it appears to be factual, and also the subject of a book, Joe Cinque's Consolation. AUSTLII related links for this matter are    . -- Longhair 23:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've read part of that book. Certainly factual when backed up by those case reports, and certainly notable given that Helen Garner wrote about it. --bainer (talk) 00:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I heard about Helen Garner writing a book about it. The book itself would probably count as notable. If there were an AfD about Anu Singh or Joe Cinque, I'd suggest merging but not deleting. Andjam 00:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I also recall the ABC doing a doco on her, the family of the killed boyfriend, or both - probably Australian Story, or something similar. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ -  (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  01:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I have. It was big news in Canberra at the time and the Garner book definitely makes her notable enough for an article under the newsworthy event of WP:BIO. I would vote keep in Articles for Deletion. Capitalistroadster 04:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

She's very notable, both for the book and the media publicity. You'd be hard pressed to find people in my law school who hadn't heard of her. Rebecca 05:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Nice to see that it's been improved a bit. *g* Also interesting to note that a few people automatically thought she might be on AFD... Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 01:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Joe Dolce
While trying to work out whether there was or wasn't a category covering Italo-Australians/Australians of Italian descent, I stumbled across this terrible article. I note it has been edited at some stage by a certain dolcej - how on Earth has it existed to this present day in this state? I am of the view that it virtually needs to be trashed, but would prefer a second opinion. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  12:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps copy most of the 'Accomplishments' to the talk page and pick it to pieces from there? There's a lot of fluff there that's better suited to a resume. -- Longhair 13:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it needs a cleanup, but he definitely qualifies as a "person achieving renown or notoriety". Andjam 13:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I was planning on rewriting it but got distracted. However he meets WP:MUSIC with his song Shaddapa Your Face going to number 1 in Australia in 1980 and going to number 1 in several other countries. Capitalistroadster 13:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

ACOTF: Australian Football Hall of Fame
Surf lifesaving was WP:ACOTF from 7 May 2006 to 21 May 2006 having been selected with 11 votes.
 * 5 contributors made 8 edits
 * The article increased from 5.4 kb (4.7 kb when nominated) to 6.2 kb
 * See how it changed

The new Australian collaboration is another already-substantial article: Australian Football Hall of Fame with ten votes (nomination). Please help to improve it in any way you can. --Scott Davis Talk 13:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Translation of the Week
You may be interested in knowing that Transcription of Australian Aboriginal languages is a couple of spots from being voted Translation of the Week on Meta. While it is an interesting subject, I am definitely not looking forward to translating it! ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!)  04:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Currency bill tracking in Australia
This isn't Wikipedia related, but I heard about it here - I have been waiting for years for a version of Where's George? for Australian notes to show up, and now it has! I found it in the currency bill tracking article above. The more notes entered, the more interesting these sites are, so grab your wallet and start typing those serial numbers at http://www.moneytracker.com.au ! (After re-reading this, it looks kinda spammy, so a disclaimer - I have no personal/financial etc interest in the site apart from wanting to see the number of bills listed grow!) -- Chuq 13:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)