Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive35

It's official: I'm being 'wiki-stalked' (closed)
{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;" ! style="background-color: #ffd8a0;" | It's official: I'm being 'wiki-stalked' – Conversation dormant. Please relist for ongoing concerns. – 22:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
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My recentmost exchanges with 'Snocrates' and 'Cool Hand Luke' are at the bottom of these pages: (ref. WP:STALK and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:STALK#Wikistalking ) Could a BLP specialist please prohibit Snocrates, Cool Hand Luke and any or all others from perpetrating and perpetuating libel and libelous innuendo about me in Wikipedia articles and Talk Pages and Userpages -- or please refer my case to the appropriate administrator ASAP? I won't have time to 'watch' the pages in question, I need protective measures taken by someone else, I'm at wit's end. Jsmith 51389 (talk) 05:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jsmith_51389
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Church_of_Christ_%28Temple_Lot%29
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Temple_Lot
 * I'm afraid I don't understand your statements - you are involved in an editing dispute, but that was addressed already .  What have Snocrates and Cool Hand Luke done since that that causes you additional distress?  I'm afraid that they have merely been including cited information from reliable sources.  Re. allegations of stalking - I don't see evidence of deliberate, continued, harassment.

Michaelbusch (talk) 05:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for checking things out. I am not involved in an 'edit dispute' per se, I am a private American Citizen who has been libelled by print media in the past, and am currently being libeled in Two Wikipedia articles (so far). Please do NOT regard my complaint as that of a Wikipedia Editor. I am only a Wikipedia Editor on the side. I am a private citizen who was libeled 18 years ago, and now, more than one Wikipedia Editor/Administrator has decided to perpetuate the libel, persistently ignoring and deleting FACTS about me, preferring to publicly post malicious allegations about me, instead. Mine is a 'textbook case' of what WP:BLP cautions against, as well as what WP:STALK cautions against.  If the founder of Wikipedia became aware of this situation, he would be appalled: Editor after Editor joins the fray, only to decide to go with 'first impressions' and continue the libel/defamation/slander of a living person. To answer your specific statement: Evidence of deliberate, continued harassment can be seen at my Talk Page, its archives AND in the Talk pages of the two Wikipedia articles devoted to 'Temple Lot' and 'Church of Christ Temple Lot." Previously until recently, I have had to 'hide' behind multiple usernames, in an attempt to prevent my legal name from being slandered/libeled. I have given up on that tactic, and am willing to pursue redress under my birth name, and complete straightforwardness. Please help me, or refer my case to someone who can. Thanks. Jsmith 51389 (talk) 06:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I just blocked this user indefinitely for 24 hours, and have also blocked his sock puppets User:CH 82 and User:Ftr (for the record). A quick peek at Snocrates edit history shows that he doesn't know this person from a hole in the ground and is certainly not stalking. Being a good wikipedian, Snocrates reproduced a newspaper account when someone (presumably Smith) kept removing references to the arson of the (fairly notable) Temple Lot church in 1990. (This structure was on the ground that many Mormons believe a temple will be built which will eventually be where Jesus Christ returns to the earth). The source shows that a one Jordan Smith was convicted of the arson in 1991. That user has strongly objected, brought the BLP, and has edited Snocrates' comments, while berating him for not giving his legal name. User felt that the article was not fair, apparently because it doesn't depict him as a civil rights protester and visionary, not unlike Martin Luther King, Jr. or Joseph Smith, Jr. User posted almost exclusively WP:AUTO, advancing fringe views about himself that appear to be original research. I warned user repeatedly, and ultimately banned him for harassment and disruption. If anyone wants to mentor this user, be my guest, but user does not appear care about building an encyclopedia to me. Cool Hand Luke 06:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE
Someone has posted this vandalism at the Temple Lot Talk Page.... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Temple_Lot&action=history (CAUTION: don't click on the URL the vandal provides...it shows a mutilated corpse of some kind.)

I don't have any idea who did that but I certainly have an idea of what 'attracted' the vandal to the Temple Lot page. (by the way, I'm the user CoolHandLuke banned for 24 hours, he banned me because he didn't want me to request assistance here, and he doesn't want me requesting accuracy in the articles).

Undoubtedly, there is more where that came from, unless urgent measures are taken to bring the article in compliance with strict Wikipedia guidelines...which guidelines are fully intended to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

For the record, most of what CoolHandLuke states in his comment above is false, as even a cursory glance at the relevant edit history would show. For example, no one ever tried to remove mention of the 'the arson' from the article. Snocrates never reproduced a newspaper account (what's that mean?)...and what's a "fringe view"? Anyway, I'm not going to argue. The vandalism added to the Temple Lot talk page brings things to a different level than me pleading in vain for BLP Wiki-editors to please protect me from an administrator who is harassing me, and getting virtually no response except for that same administrator continuing his harassment in plain view, right here, in this thread in which I asked for assistance. (ref. WP:STALK and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:STALK#Wikistalking )

Dicey situation (talk) 05:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Note - Dicey situation appears to be a sockpuppet created by Jsmith 51389 to evade Jsmith 51389's block, and has been editing Jsmith 51389's talk page to remove warnings and notice of block sanitize comments and maintain the talk page (see and two other edits).  Please forgive me if I've made an incorrect deduction in the heat of the moment, but to me this indicates that Jsmith 51389 is not taking his/her short-term block to heart and is instead perpetuating the dispute even when blocked by editing in bad faith using a sockpuppet. Suggest ban of this sockpuppet, and extention of Jsmith 51389's 24-hour block under the circumstances.  Wikidemo (talk) 14:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, you have 'made an incorrect deduction in the heat of the moment': I clearly admit that 'Dicey Situation' and myself are one and the same, and I correctly allege that the 24-hour block by 'CoolHandLuke' was unjustified, and that his false allegations involving my name has contributed directly to my name being posted on the worldwide web in conjunction with photographs of chopped up dead people (I don't know for sure, I didn't look closely at the horrifying image which comes up when you click on the link provided by the vandal at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Temple_Lot&action=history. _
 * I am, and have edited in 'good faith,' for example, if my posts here were in bad faith, I would not have openly admitted that 'dicey situation' and I are the same user, and I would not have openly admitted that I had been blocked for 24-hours, and only chose another username because of an urgent emergency situation...which I also clearly explained. With all due respect, this is insanity, and not on my part. I don't want to hear  about this or that completely-garbled interpretations of the situation, and reference to a growing list of "options for wiki-editors" supposedly at my disposal.
 * I have learned these options are NOT available to me, in large part because of the willful slander and irresponsibility of at 'CoolHandLuke' and his pal 'Snocrates' (by the way, Snocrates told me on the talk page he was going to 'give things a rest'....and then fifteen minutes later, he posted a provocative complaint on 'CoolHandLuke's' page (check it out, please), and that caused my harasser 'CoolHandLuke' to come right back aboard my UserPage and this BLP noticeboard, posting the same slander and misinterpretations as he had, earlier. I have been in private communication with the one Wikipedia editor who helped me during an identical 'dispute' last August...but I can tell by her most recent reply to me, that the complexity of the situation is finally "over her head" too. Bottom line, people, what would you think if libelous defamatory information generated 18 years ago was repeatedly inserted in a Wikipedia article, and then when you attempt to correct the information with verifiable sources, you're scoffed at as a " naive and irresponsible Wiki Editor"....meanwhile your privacy and that of all your family is suddenly being compromised in the worst possible way. How would you like it if it were your name in this link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Temple_Lot&action=history


 * Again...with all due respect, you have COMPLETELY mis-read the situation, and are invited to study the edit history more fully. I don't know what else to tell you except, please, please, any Wikipedia editor or Administrator with any kind of decency please refer this urgent situation to the appropriate Administrator. Ideally, and OTRS should be emplaced (as it was early last August, before an administrator in the Wikipedia Foundation literally confused me with Joseph Smith, Jr. and his son Joseph Smith III (b. 1832 d. 1914), and told me I didn't have a legitimate complaint, because they're dead. If you think I'm exaggerating as to that incredibly ridiculous bungle, I can refer you to both the public and private comments made by that administrator.
 * 'CoolHandLuke' approaches the same kind of errancy....for example, he states in the comments above, that the Temple Lot is where Mormons believe the Second Coming takes place. Check page history for Temple Lot and you will see that on Dec. 2 (or 3) that I (under username CH_82), added an explanation that Mormons do NOT believe, nor have ever believed, that the Second Coming takes place in the U.S.....Mitt Romney was challenged with the same misconception, and a U.K. Telegraph article clears it up....Snocrates DELETED the edit and citations...and ten days later, his pal "CoolHandLuke" echoes here the same false rumor about Mormon beliefs as I had tried to correct in the article. Snocrates and 'CoolHandLuke' evidently are not LDS (at first I assumed they both were), and under the guise of 'experts' on the topic, are conducting outright harassment of one or more LDS persons.


 * I am a living person with an urgent complaint. Please do NOT deal with me as if I am an amateur Wiki-editor...that is only incidental to the problem...I have repeatedly tried to assist and help the situation, and at NO POINT, EVER, tried to delete mention of the protest from the Temple Lot articles. It is Snocrates and 'CoolHandLuke' and some others, who have REPEATEDLY tried to remove verifiable, accurate, non-defamatory information from the articles, mainly because they have a 'vendetta' not against me, but against the bizarre non-factual characterizations of me in a single local press report 18 years ago. (most other inaccurate reports have simply plagiarized or 'cited' that original press report, without question, and without any research whatsoever).


 * It's a Kafkaesque nightmare, and I will be very grateful if you can help resolve the problem, and not exacerbate it.

Jsmith 51389 (talk) 19:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * "How would you like it if it were your name in this link?" I would not like it at all. I've removed that link from history because I think it is indeed a BLP violation. There's no reason for what that banned user did. I wish you would appreciate that no one is stalking you.
 * Neither my nor Snocrates' religious affiliations are pertinent here, although I did notice your threat to have the LDS Church investigate me and imperil my salvation. To emphasize again, we are not harrassing you. Snocrates simply posted a 1991 newspaper account of the arson and Jordan Smith's conviction. Please stop your harassment. Stop demanding Snocrates' legal name, and stop using wikipedia as a forum for your original views. See WP:SOAPBOX.
 * Once again, we do not rely upon our own original research here. See WP:OR. Cool Hand Luke 19:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

As the "infamous" Snocrates from this dispute, I'm willing to stand by Cool Hand Luke's summary of the incidents in the section above. Cool Hand Luke and I are not "pals"; I know him as much as I know "Jordan Smith"; I turned to him for help only when Jsmith 51389 started editing my talk page comments. I did this because he was an admin familiar with the dispute and I didn't know what to do when an editor started changing my own comments. Anyone can review my edits at Temple Lot and Church of Christ (Temple Lot); I have always tried to only include information that is published in verifiable sources. I've recently given Jsmith 51389 the benefit of the doubt and let him include information that is probably WP:OR on the condition that a {cn} tag be attached to it, but now other editors are beginning to remove the uncited WP:OR that I originally wanted removed, which I think partially, at least, vindicates my past approach. Snocrates 21:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


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