Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SporkBot


 * The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at WT:BRFA. The result of the discussion was Symbol keep vote.svg Approved.

SporkBot
Operator:

Automatic or Manually assisted: Mostly manually assisted, but could be automatic if the job is extensive (after an initial trial run).

Programming language(s): AutoWikiBrowser Perl

Source code available: Standard AWB perlwikipedia

Function overview: Orphan/substitute templates listed at WP:TFD/H.

Links to relevant discussions (where appropriate): See TFD.

Edit period(s): As needed, when templates are placed in the holding cell.

Estimated number of pages affected: typically, not more than 5000 per week.

Exclusion compliant (Y/N): Y

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): N

Function details: Basically, the bot would use regular expressions (written by me) to either orphan or substitute templates as needed. This function used to be handled by another bot-op but he is now indefinitely banned and can no longer help out.

Discussion
Looks to be a straightforward task to be operated by a trusted user. Josh Parris 03:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * BotTrialComplete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  04:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * User pages are not articles - but that's the only misbehaviour I see. Josh Parris 07:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps there was some miscommunication. That is the intended behaviour.  When I closed the TFD for FA-star (and GA-icon, ...), the decision was to delete the templates.  However, before they could be deleted, all transclusions need to be replaced by, , ... These templates are never used in article space.  Hence, all the replacements (substitutions) are in various places (mostly user and user talk pages).  Ever since User:Erik9bot was banned, we haven't had anyone with a flagged bot to regularly help out with these tasks.  I frequently make bot requests, but those can go for days or weeks without any attention, and it seems a bit silly, since I could just as easily do it myself. The bot flag is particularly useful since it keeps these minor substitution edit tasks from lighting up talk page notifications, which irritates people.  If there weren't user talk pages involved, I could just do what I have been doing which is to just do the task without a bot, using my alternate AWB account.  Of course, one shouldn't go around changing userpages for no reason, but in this case, there is no change in appearance or function, and we are helping to not break things before the template is deleted. Does this address your concerns?  Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  16:54, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I just realized you were probably talking about the removal of the whitespace at the top of the page? I'm not sure why this happened, but I will do some testing to make sure it doesn't happen again.  Sorry for the long comment above. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  16:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries, it looks like you had something to get off your chest. Is genfixes turned on?  You might want to turn it off. Josh Parris 06:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm almost positive genfixes was turned off, but I will double check when I do some more testing. TFD closing was much easier when Erik9 was around, it's a shame about the whole sock thing. By the way, I think a more automatic TFD Helper bot could be a great idea, if there were a few more controls/safeguards added to make sure something didn't go horribly wrong. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  15:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I just confirmed that my perl template orphaning code (User:Plastikspork/orphan.pl) does not have the same problem. I don't have a Windows machine with me at the moment, so I will have to check AWB later. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  16:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It may be that you're using a regex that is too greedy? Josh Parris 03:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I filed a bug request with AWB. If you have AWB, could you confirm/non-confirm it for me?  Basically, just open up User:Canyouhearmenow in AWB to reproduce it.  It won't even let me click-override the newline removal.  Luckily this is almost never an issue, since I have seen no other page where there are supposed to be a bunch of newlines at the top of the page.  I can always use my Perl script instead if that is desirable, since it doesn't have the same problem. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  23:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not an option; I don't have any Windows boxen. Sorry. Perhaps someone else can assist? Josh Parris 11:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears this "feature" has been confirmed by the AWB developers (see Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs). Although, I do not have any confirmation of a willingness to fix it.  If they decide it shouldn't be fixed, then I will strongly consider switching to my Perl script.  Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  20:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it be okay to run the bot for another 30 or 50 edits? I would like to clear out the holding cell.  Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  23:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

for cleaning out the remainder of the holding cell. Please link to associated edits and report any that turn up known or fresh bugs. Josh Parris 11:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * BotTrialComplete I didn't entirely clear out the category since I skipped anything that would trip a "new messages" indicator (and protected pages). Thanks!  Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  22:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What happened here? (there are other examples) Josh Parris 11:37, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I lost my saved settings and I missed one regexp when I keyed them in a second time. Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  15:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

New codebase

 * The more that I think about it, it is probably best for me to change the code base from AWB to Perl (e.g., the orphan script that I linked to above). Between the whitespace "feature" and the lack of low-level control, makes me believe that this is not the best platform.  It works in most cases, but it requires a bit too much operator intervention to work properly.  A good perl/python script could (1) query the operator for the name (or names) of the template(s), (2) query any namespace restrictions, (3) automatically suggest an edit summary based on the TFD linking to the template, (4) automatically determine all the necessary regular expressions by checking for all the redirects.  I have already have code that does most of this, but it just needs to be polished a bit.  I thought that AWB might be better for the job, since it is already "user friendly".   Would it be possible to change the code base without resubmitting the BRFA?  I could make AWB work, but it will require getting the AWB developers to find the time to fix bugs and implement new features.  Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  16:20, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * FYI, here is the proposed perl script User:Plastikspork/tfd helper.pl, and here are two sample edits. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As you're changing the implementation but not the task, I think we can just skip straight to trial with your new codebase. Josh Parris 15:18, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Josh Parris 15:18, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice any problems this time around. It did gracefully fail on one page that was over 800k, but just issued a warning and skipped it.  I am planning to add some minor tweaks to make the code more user friendly, but otherwise it works very well, as far as I can tell.  Let me know if you see any problems.  I only did 28 edits since after that the templates in question were entirely orphaned.  Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  21:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * A 800K talk page? People are mad.
 * This codebase seems much more reliable. Josh Parris 05:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't know why I had second thoughts right after creating the BRFA. This code will work for 99 percent of the tasks that we see at TFD, and it is entirely menu driven.  You just specify the type of task, the list of templates, then confirm that the job is set up properly.  Once it starts, it shows you a simple diff for each edit, and you can choose to skip ones that don't look correct.  If you are very confident that it is going well, you can always hold down the enter key, and it goes into an "automatic" mode.  You can always stop it at any time with ctrl-c, and there are 10 second pauses between each edit to make sure things don't happen too fast.  It won't modify HTML comments, and I plan to make it edit around <pre ></pre> and <nowiki ></nowiki> when I have a chance.  The diff is very simple, but works here since the edits are always very isolated.  The 800k talk page was a surprise.  Although, if you have newsletters delivered, and never check your archive your talk page, this can happen. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  06:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It appears AWB is not well suited to this task,
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at WT:BRFA.