Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SteveBot 3


 * The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was Symbol oppose vote.svg Withdrawn by operator.

SteveBot
Operator: Steve Crossin   (talk)   (review)

Automatic or Manually Assisted: Automatic

Programming Language(s):  AWB

Function Summary:  Changes

Edit period(s) (e.g. Continuous, daily, one time run): Whenever I operate it.

Already has a bot flag (Y/N):  Y

Function Details: Due to a recent MOS change, where it now says that "Em dashes should not be spaced at Wikipedia.", this bot would aid in the changing of. A config file has been fine tuned and tested for AWB, tested with my own account, works perfectly without error. Being able to use my bot for this would speed up the process very rapidly. Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  07:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Ensure this only takes place in the mainspace, as some people prefer to write with spaced em dashes. Also suggest you make mention of this at the appropriate venues (eg. MOS talk page). dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 09:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

✅ Config file is already set up to only change them that are in manispace, and posted on the MOS Talk page. Steve Crossin   (talk)   (review)  10:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A few diffs: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Same settings. · AndonicO  Engage. 10:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Where will you feed input for this task (e.g. just as you go, every page in the whole encyclopedia, recent changes)? —  xaosflux  Talk 11:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I would do it by looking through "What transcludes page" - Template:Cite journal, then all the other cite templates, followed by Template:Unreferenced. Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  11:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless there's a better way to produce a list of all articles? · AndonicO  Engage. 15:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You could download a database dump.  ·Add§hore·  T alk /C ont 15:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

There's no way I could download one myself, that's too large for my bandwidth. If someone could provide a list, then that would help, however with AWB, that would take some time to load. Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  15:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There are people that download the dumps and would make a list for you. Also my AWB can load over 250,000 pages so you shouldn't have any troubles there. =].  ·Add§hore·  T alk /C ont 15:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll download it, add it to the settings, and send it over to you Steve. Thanks for the tip Addshore. · AndonicO  Engage. 16:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks a lot :) Steve Crossin   (talk)   (review)  16:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose even in mainspace, for the same reason. Many people prefer to follow those print publishers who space emdashes; I am currently reading a book put out by the respectable academic press, Blackwell Publishing, which does so. This is a divisive change on which there is no consensus; please learn to leave things alone. (A bot which changed articles after a proposal on the talk page would be unexceptionable, if pointless; but I gather that already exists.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is consensus... the MOS says there shouldn't be spaces. · AndonicO  Engage. 02:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No offense, but the whole dash thing in MOS is relatively recent, and the corresponding section of WP:MOSDASH has a disputed tag. I have in the past opposed bots doing automatic MOS work unless it has a very clear consensus, like changing "See Also" to "See also". So does this have a clear consensus? Gimmetrow 07:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems to be consensus. And the disputed tag was added by Pmanderson/Septentrionalis himself. · AndonicO  Engage. 14:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Replaced after unwarranted removal. There was an extensive and divided poll, which has now been archived. (Also a discussion of whether the present strong wording is justified, which should be in the same archive.)  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Strong oppose: Making a single change like this is a complete waste of resources. If the bot is doing other MoS changes, it can certainly include a change like this. However, adding a revision to the history (which, by the way, creates a very confusing diff) for something as trivial as this is absurd. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Michael Hardy notes that this correction in text will be definitely wrong if the emdash is being used as a minus sign; if so, we should replace with &amp;minus; but leave the space. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, in that case, a minus sign is the only correct sign, and spaces would be appropriate. Perhaps a note should be added to the bot's edit summary (if this task is approved) mentioning that mdashes are sometimes used incorrectly, in which case they should be replaced with the appropriate symbol? · AndonicO  Engage. 19:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

✅ That can be done. I'll alter the config file, but it's specifically only set to change " &emdash; " to "&emdash;". Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  05:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We'll see how this goes. There seems to be consensus, and only for emdashes. Soxred93 (u t) 05:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not convinced this task, the general replacement of spaced emdashes with non-spaced emdashes, has a sufficient consensus to run as an automatic bot. But let's see what the trial brings. Gimmetrow 00:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've halted the trial for now, after being threatened by an administrator that they would block my bot/revoke it's AWB access, whether this task is trial approved or not. Steve Crossin   (talk)   (review)  00:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Betacommand, SQL, and I have all said that this task is fine if it is coupled with other fixes. (That includes putting it in the general fixes of AWB.) However, as standalone edits, these are too trivial. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * True, and I will discuss this further on the IRC channel, as well as talking to AWB devs, I was just noting that I'd been told my bot would be blocked if I continue my trial. Steve Crossin   (talk)   (review)
 * I have suggested a change to AWB, where it includes this in general fixes. Eventually, that can fix this problem. Soxred93 (u t) 00:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, that would be the best solution here, no doubt's about that. Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  00:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This bot has a number of problems, including that (1) it is likely to cause errors, as described, by incorrectly identifying the error at hand; (2) there are a number of ways to correct this problem and it is unclear why the bot's method is the best one -- why not replace spaced em-dashes with spaced en-dashes? This would probably be better with regard to the use-as-a-minus-sign problem described above; and (3) the edits are trivial and not worth the volume of changes that would be produced. Christopher Parham (talk) 00:30, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

- Per a lack of consensus for this task, I've decided to withdraw the task. Steve Crossin  (talk)   (review)  21:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.