Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 December 8



United States congressional

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The result of the debate was rename all with lower case-c-congressional. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose umbrella renaming: "United States Congressional…" to "United States congressional…".
 * Category:United States Congressional delegation navigation boxes to Category:United States congressional delegation navigation boxes
 * Category:110th United States Congressional delegation navigation boxes to Category:110th United States congressional delegation navigation boxes
 * Category:United States Congressional Delegations by state to Category:United States congressional delegations by state ("Delegations" should also be lowercase)
 * Category:United States Congressional districts to Category:United States congressional districts
 * Category:Obsolete United States Congressional districts to Category:Obsolete United States congressional districts
 * Category:United States Congressional committee projects to Category:United States congressional committee projects
 * Nominator's rationale:
 * —Markles 20:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Notes:
 * This would not include Category:Burials at the Congressional Cemetery because "Congressional Cemetery" is a name (a proper noun).
 * It's already correct for Category:Maps of United States congressional districts.
 * It should also be done for numerous articles named "United States Congressional…", but I don't know how to do a mass article renaming.
 * Please add other categories to the above list, if you find them (mark them with "CFR" of course).
 * —Markles 20:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * comment What supports your assertion this should be lower case? What goes against your assertion? Hmains (talk) 03:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good question — I should have addressed that earlier. This supports my assertion:
 * (A) Consistency - it ought to be one or the other.
 * (B) Capitalization is used for proper nouns not adjectives.
 * This opposes my assertion:
 * (C) Sometimes, I admit, one will see "Congressional" capitalized. However, that's usually when it's a title or when the author is capitalizing incorrectly perhaps to inflate the importance of the term.  For example, "Nancy Pelosi represents California's 8th Congressional District."  That really should be lower case. —Markles 04:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Congressional is usually capitalized. However, delegation is not. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 08:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Really? When/where is "Congressional" usually capitalized?—Markles 11:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * How about every article in the Category:United States Congressional Delegations by state cat? This is an example of a non-Wikipedia article with it capitalized. This is another one. And many many others if you do a google search. This article has Congressional capitalized but delegation not. Not saying that these examples show "usually". But it does show that this isn't as cut and dried as "presidential". --WoohookittyWoohoo! 06:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Those articles in the afore-mentioned category should also be changed, per my suggestion above. Your first non-Wiki example also capitalizes "Special Session," "Congressman," "Congresswoman," and "Census." The second example is a title, which is always going to be capitalized, as I stated above.  The third example is from the UK and is referring back to the US, and so I presume would have different capitalization rules and it also capitalizes "Bill" and "Government," and misspells "Johns Hopkins."—Markles 11:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom, Congress is capitalized, congressional not. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm keeping out of this, as UK convention would certainly be for "C" but in the US these things are treated somewhat differently. But whatever the result, this should not be used as a precedent for "Parliamentary" and similar non-US categories. Johnbod (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. The noun is capitalized, the adjective is not. Same deal generally with "President" and "presidential" when referring to U.S. President. Snocrates 20:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Windows multimedia

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Windows multimedia to Category:Microsoft Windows multimedia technology. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Windows multimedia to Category:Microsoft Windows multimedia technology
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename per nom. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Buffy (comics)

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Buffy (comics) to Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer comics. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Buffy (comics) to Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer comics
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Support rename per nom. More descriptive category name, and appropriate to WP style. -Verdatum (talk) 23:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Schools of Sioux Falls

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The result of the debate was delete. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * schools of sioux falls


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete per nom. No reason for this badly named category right now.  No objection to recreation later with a better name and more schools. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:18, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
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Marathi films

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The result of the debate was merge into Category:Marathi-language films. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * marathi-language films by year
 * 1975 marathi-language films
 * 1982 marathi-language films
 * 2004 marathi-language films
 * Upmerge all into the terribly unpopulated Category:Marathi-language films. At the moment there's only 8 of these, splitting them into years just gets in the way. -- Prove It (talk) 13:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Upmerge all per nom Johnbod (talk) 15:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Upmerge all per nom Magioladitis (talk) 15:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep as this category is new (less than 2 days old). It may be populated with more entries. After all not all categories start with a dozen articles. -- Mayuresh 16:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Upmerge all the top-level cat has existed since March and only has 8 articles. When there are several hundred, it might be worth splitting into sub cats. Lugnuts (talk) 17:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, there is certainly scope for these categories, even though population might be slow. --Soman (talk) 21:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Main category created on December 7 and the subcategories one day after. It seems that is a hast over-categorisation. If more films it sense to subcategorise by year but for now not really. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:43, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Yoga types

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Yoga types to Category:Yoga styles. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * yoga types


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename with concensus. Suggestions: Category:Types of Yoga, Category:Styles of Yoga - schools would be overstating it for many of these. Johnbod (talk) 13:05, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Styles of Yoga would be all right for me. You could have asked me right away. Davin7 (talk) 13:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me - this cfd is simply for discussing the cat, not for deleting one, I simply wanted input from oher users. Cheers,  S facets  20:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Yoga styles. Cuts out a word and seems more standard. Otto4711 (talk) 23:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Has been effectuated now into Category:Yoga styles. Davin7 (talk) 08:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're supposed to wait for the debate to be closed. Johnbod (talk) 14:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Ambassadors

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The result of the debate was rename all to Ambassadors of Foo style. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Belgium to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Burkina Faso to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Cameroon to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Canada to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Ethiopia to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of the European Union to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of France to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Germany to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Greece to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Guyana to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Hungary to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Indonesia to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Iran to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Israel to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Italy to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Kazakhstan to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Kyrgyzstan to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Norway to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Poland to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Russia to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Serbia to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of South Africa to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from South Korea to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of the Soviet Union to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Spain to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of Turkey to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Heads of Missions from the United Kingdom to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors of the United States to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Propose renaming Category:Ambassadors from Venezuela to Category:UNKNOWN


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Comment - If the category scheme is intended to capture "ambassadors by the countries they represent" then "ambassadors of country X" is the correct formula, I believe. Tim!'s symmetry doesn't work because "from" has two meaings: directionality (symmetrical with "to") and origin. Not usually a problem but a problem with ambassadors because they can originate in place "X" but be working for / currently affiliated with place "Y". --Lquilter (talk) 12:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename all in Ambassadors of xxx. "From" has the problems Lquilter underlined. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename all to Ambassadors of Foo. We had a debate on this very recently - Iran was it? Does anyone have the link? Johnbod (talk) 13:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. See Categories for discussion/Log/2007 November 1. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bhg! This renamed a bunch to "of". Johnbod (talk) 16:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * How about Ambassadors representing Foo? I like that a little better than Ambassadors of Foo, but either would be fine. -- Prove It (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to "of" format. It does get a weird double-"of" in Category:Heads of Missions of the United Kingdom, but maybe that's not quite parallel to ambassadors anyhow.--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename all to "Ambassadors of foo". In the previous discussion, I supported the "from foo" format, but I am now persuaded that "of" is the more technically correct usage, and it is important to standardise. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Of sounds correct to me. --kingboyk (talk) 16:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename all to "Ambassadors of foo" I had originally made the opposite nomination, but am now convinced that "of" is more appropriate.  The most important thing anyway is that they be consistently named.  While we're talking about these categories, are people happy with the names Category:Ambassadors by mission country and Category:Ambassadors by country of origin?  I made them up, and am not at all sure they are ideal. LeSnail (talk) 19:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename remaining to Category:Ambassadors of foo per previous discussion which was intended to set a standard. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment on Category:Heads of Missions from the United Kingdom. Should this be split into Category:Ambassadors of the United Kingdom and Category:High Commissioners of the United Kingdom? Vegaswikian (talk) 00:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * High Commissioner is just the term for the ambassador to a Commonwealth country - they should be kept lumped together imho. Johnbod (talk) 01:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That name seems a bit odd. Would it be OK to split with the high commissioners as a child?  After all, it sounds like they are called ambassadors. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You should then do it to all Commonwealth countries. For example, see Category:Lists of ambassadors from Canada; Canada has High Commissioner (Commonwealth)s in London, Canberra, Pretoria etc.  They rank as ambassadors & I think the ramifications for these lists & cats of not so classifying them would be complicated.  Johnbod (talk) 08:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename all to amabassadors representing X to clear up misconceptions. Thus: ambassador from Y need not be confused with an ambassador representing X, but from Y ; ambassador for Y need not be confused with ambassador to X ; ambassador of Y need not be confused with ambassador to X ; 132.205.99.122 (talk) 20:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename all to "of" anon above has a good idea, but as best I can gather that ambassadors from monarchies actually represent the monarch or his/her government and not the state (l'État, c'est moi at work no doubt). Because how WP uses "from" is where one grew up, in ambassadorial relations "of" is proper in all titles: The Ambassador of Foo to XYZ, not the Ambassador from Foo to XYZ - is the ambassador only ambassadorial in transit? Then we have the Albrights/Kissingers, etc. who are emmissaries from Czechoslovakia, Germany, etc. but were emmissaries "of" the United States. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 03:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:All articles with unsourced statements

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The result of the debate was keep. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * all articles with unsourced statements


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * There has been previous discussion about this category on its talk page. It was tagged for speedy deletion which I think is inappropriate for such a massive category. I think it should be debated here. I have no view. The rationale I give above is what the speedy tag said. --Bduke (talk) 08:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Every wikipedia article does not have unsourced statements, but many do. It's useful to have them all in a category as it makes them easier to find for those who wish to improve them--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 11:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep per my rationale at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 9. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep. This category helps articles to improve. Not all articles have unsourced statements. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Sorry for the bad faith, but my only guess is this is a joke Cfd. WP:POINT please. -Verdatum (talk) 03:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete Whilst not all articles have tags to state that they have unsourced statements and hence not all articles are in the 'articles with unsourced statements' category, it is likely, in my view, that the nominator's contention is valid. I just viewed 10 articles using the Random article link: 3 contained the 'articles with unsourced statements' tag; 2 seemed to have valid source references, but not at the level of granularity, i.e. not containing embedded references for each statement, to verify whether the sources given covered all statements in the article); and 5 contained no references and hence could validly contain the 'articles with unsourced statements' tag. But just by reading each article I could easily tell that there were unsourced statements in it without a tag to tell me; so the tag is just clutter as far as I'm concerned, though perhaps informative if you don't actually read what is in wikipedia and just want to classify things according to arbitrary categories. Extrapolate from my sample and you will possibly find that at least half of all wikipedia articles either have no sources or only partial sources given, yet they don't contain the 'articles with unsourced statements' tag, implying that they could validly contain that tag. This also implies that any statistic based on counting how many articles currently contain the tag would be highly misleading. It would be more economic, i.e. better use of resources, to eliminate the 'articles with unsourced statements' tag and replace it with an 'all statements verified' tag which could be put into the probably relatively few articles that contained no unsourced statements. But even that tag should be removed whenever an article containing it gets updated to include an unsourced statement. Matt Stan (talk) 11:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: I hope you understand that not all statements in an article have to be sourced. This category helps us to find articles that contain statements that have to be sourced. -- Magioladitis (talk) 02:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment response: The Nominator doesn't seem to take this into account. Where is the guidance that allows one to discriminate between types of material that need to be sourced and those which don't?


 * Keep. I nominated this with a neutral view because I thought it should not be speedy deleted. I have now had time to reflect on this. The nomination rationale is false. Of course almost all articles are missing some sources, but that is not what this category is about. It is useful because it brings together articles that editors have identified as needing sources. I do not think it is about getting statistics on unsourced articles either. Magioladitis above has it absolutely right. I am not going to withdraw the nomination because I believe the discussion should run its course. --Bduke (talk) 21:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Aro heros

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Aro heros to Category:Aro people. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Aro heros to Category:Aro people
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename per nom. Tim! (talk) 09:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Aro Wars

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Wars involving the Aro Confederacy. There's no consensus to upmerge, but everyone seems to want some change.--Mike Selinker (talk) 06:40, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:Aro Wars to Category:Wars involving the states and peoples of Africa
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename to Category:Wars involving the Aro people as "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". Tim! (talk) 09:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There does not appear to be such a scheme in place. The subcats of the wars cats are about specific wars or about wars at the national level. Otto4711 (talk) 15:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm leaning toward upmerging per Otto. However, if kept, I think Category:Wars involving the Aro Confederacy would be a more appropriate title. – Black Falcon (Talk) 19:12, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The O.C.

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The result of the debate was delete. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:50, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * the o.c.


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete per nom. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Err, TV shows shouldn't have their own categories? That doesn't seem to be accepted, per the supercategory I linked. The material is clearly thematically related, so why should we not take advantage of categories? --Eliyak T · C 00:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Some TV shows have their own categories. That does not mean that every TV show should have its own category. TV shows should have categories when there is an extensive amount of material that can't easily be interlinked through text and templates. See for instance Category:Star Trek. This principle has been well established through what must be over 100 CFDs by now. Otto4711 (talk) 02:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting argument for you to make, considering that there are ~150 articles on Wikipedia about The O.C. plus another 100 images or so. What is the threshold, exactly, and where is this documented? -/- Warren 04:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * About 90 of those articles are on specific episodes, which are categorized in Category:The O.C. episodes. Another 30 or so of those are on characters and are in Category:The O.C. characters. Those categories are in the appropriate Category:Television episodes by series and Category:Television characters by series category structures. The articles are further interlinked through in addition to the extensive interlinking through the articles themselves. The category is not needed. Otto4711 (talk) 05:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for responding, but you did not answer the questions I asked. Care to have another go at it?  I'm interested in thresholds and documentation, so that I (and other editors) have a guideline to go by. This is really important. -/- Warren 06:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a specific number of articles that aren't otherwise categorized in episodes or charcters subcats below which a category must dip to be deleted? No, of course not, that would be foolish. It's based on the consensus of the community, with precedent being important but not binding. This is "documented" in the 100+ CFDs for categories named after television series over the last several months. Otto4711 (talk) 13:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom/precedent. At the moment, the category contains three subcats for characters, episodes, and images, and the main article. If that's all there is, and any other articles can go into one of the subcategories or do not belong (e.g. articles on actors), then delete. – Black Falcon (Talk) 19:16, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
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Articles on India needing coordinates from May 2007

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The result of the debate was delete. It could've been just speedied under WP:CSD though. Wizardman 06:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * articles on india needing coordinates from may 2007


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete per nom. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
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Television presenters by network

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The result of the debate was listify Category:Al Jazeera presenters, merge Category:Television presenters by network to Category:Lists of television presenters. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * television presenters by network


 * al jazeera presenters


 * Nominator's rationale:


 *  Keep(see below) the main cat for the lists - maybe rename & certainly add a note to the cat explaining it should only contain articles. Listify or Delete Al Jazeera. Johnbod (talk) 13:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep the main cat for the lists per Johnbod, but rename it to Category:Lists of television presenters by network. agree with nominator that there is no need for categories by station, so Listify Al Jazeera. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - we already have Category:Lists of television presenters which doesn't look to be large enough to require subdivision, so rather than rename, perhaps merge the nationality category there? Otto4711 (talk) 17:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, Merge main cat there. It can be split if this is ever needed. Johnbod (talk) 20:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
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