Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 13



Category:Suzuka Files

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Suzuka Files to Category:Suzuka (manga). Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * suzuka files
 * Rename to Category:Suzuka, per this discussion. -- Prove It (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename to  Category:Suzuka (manga), as Suzuka is a city in Japan. 132.205.44.134 22:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to  Category:Suzuka (manga) per above, (and a race track, etc). Neier 04:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions.  -- Neier 04:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to  Category:Suzuka (manga) per above. (Duane543 03:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
 * Rename to Category:Suzuka (manga), to match the article. --tjstrf talk 07:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Ohio Bobcats basketball coaches

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Ohio Bobcats basketball coaches to Category:Ohio Bobcats men's basketball coaches. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Ohio Bobcats basketball coaches to Category:Ohio Bobcats men's basketball coaches
 * Nominator's Rationale:


 * Rename per nom. The women's category can be added if anyone notable enough pops up. — Dale Arnett 22:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Music by A. R. Rahman

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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 06:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Music by A. R. Rahman ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Postlebury 10:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete A. R. Rahman isn't big enough for his own Compositions by. I would support the category on Tchaikovsky for example. Horvat Den 17:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Prominent Sherbro Families

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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 06:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * prominent sherbro families
 * Delete, or at least Rename to Category:Sherbro families. -- Prove It (talk) 21:02, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete this and add Category:Tucker Family to the nomination. It's pretty well established that we should not categorize families unless the family is such that the articles for its members are so complex that they can't easily be interlinked. The sub-cat has two articles in it and is clearly not needed for navigational purposes. The container cat is not needed in the absence of any substantial material to put in it. Otto4711 21:06, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete family categories are rarely useful; one can navigate the links. Carlossuarez46 19:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Sivaji: The Boss songs

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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Sivaji: The Boss songs ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Postlebury 10:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 19:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I think nominator has misunderstood that these are songs specifically from this film and not songs which just happen to appear in this film. Tim! 21:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:University Associations

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The result of the debate was merge Category:University Associations to Category:University associations and consortia. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * university associations
 * Merge into Category:University Associations and Consortiums, as duplicate. -- Prove It (talk) 20:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Amend merger I have listed Category:University Associations and Consortiums for speedy renaming to Category:University associations and consortiums Postlebury 10:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge both to Category:University Associations and Consortiums, in case the speedy doesn't happen. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Note, the speedy rename of has been completed, except that I renamed it as, using a correct/common plural and as per parent . It was only after completing the speedy rename that I noticed this particular merge proposal.--cjllw  ʘ  TALK 14:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:World of Warcraft instances

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The result of the debate was delete. After Midnight 0001 03:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:World of Warcraft instances ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete I think at one point there were separate articles for various instances in the game, but they were all redirected/merged into the main article. Since there is only one article currently possible on this topic, the category isn't necessary and can be deleted. Dugwiki 20:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant to the list in the article. Mangoe 20:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Articles needing kanji

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The result of the debate was merge Category:Articles needing kanji to Category:Articles needing Japanese script. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Articles needing kanji to Category:Articles needing Japanese script


 * Merge, I don't understand exactly the details of how these two categories interact with templates or other WikiProject/Administrative processes, but surely they are redundant with one another and should be merged into one another. LordAmeth 19:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * support merge per Lord Ameth. Chris 20:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm confused - you don't need this and the next one, surely? Johnbod 03:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Support merge to Category:Articles needing Japanese script per my comments below. Neier 04:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Articles needing Japanese script

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The result of the debate was reverse merge Category:Articles needing kanji to Category:Articles needing Japanese script. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Articles needing Japanese script to Category:Articles needing kanji


 * Merge, I believe it might be best to merge this one into the other, as Template:Japanese auto-adds to the other category. LordAmeth 19:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Reverse Merge, Kanji into Japanese script. I agree with Lord Ameth that the present situation needs to be slimmed down, as there now seem to be three such categories. But I specifically created this one as it was a subsection of Articles needing Chinese script, which is not entirely correct and shows systematic though unintentional bias, by whoever classified it thus. The reason I argue this is that Japanese has multiple scripts, quite distinct from anything Chinese, to include katakana, hiragana and romanji, and while romanji is pretty easy for anyone with a western keyboard, depending on the origin of the topic, or the subject matter itself, a different script than kanji is called for. I do appreciate Lord Ameth's diligence in this, domo arigato. Chris 20:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge as LordAmeth suggested. It's true that Japanese has several different scripts, but if the script being requested isn't kanji, it really isn't necessary for the article. Katakana and hiragana transliterations can be figured out, if necessary, perfectly well from the romaji in the text. Dekimasu よ! 05:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * comment, it's not a matter of the scripts being "figured out", the purpose of both tags is to alert users with the ability to do so that some form of Japanese script needs added. Users that can't add it themselves, like me, can at least point out that an article needs it. Chris 06:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What I'm trying to say is that if katakana or hiragana is the Japanese script in question, it doesn't really need adding. Only kanji are really informative and useful to add to an article. Dekimasu よ! 08:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please explain why, for those of us who don't know why one script would be informative and others wouldn't. Chris 08:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Reverse merge - I'm not sure I agree completely with Dekimasu. If (perchance) Saitama, Saitama did not have the proper Japanese script already inserted, claiming it needed kanji would be incorrect. Sometimes, Japanese companies, buildings, etc, use katakana in their official (Japanese) name. So, I would go towards the merge to Japanese script Neier 04:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Sivaji: The Boss

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The result of the debate was delete. The songs category is to be deleted, rendering Tim's opinion moot. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Sivaji: The Boss ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete - while I don't believe there is consensus against categories named for individual films on the basis you cite, this particular category should be deleted because it lacks the sort of material that would warrant an eponymous category. Almost everything in it is an article for a song (which is IMHO inappropriate categorizaion) and what isn't for songs can be easily interlinked through the main article for the film. The category is not needed for navigational purposes. Otto4711 19:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - made as it is the biggest Indian film in history. After release, several other articles will be created coinciding with the article. I'm not sure if you understand cos you're noy Indian!Universal Hero 22:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with being Indian. It has everything to do with the category not being needed. Otto4711 00:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, all the promised articles should be linked from the article on the movie. Carlossuarez46 19:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep as there is a song subcategory and no better category for Sivaji: The Boss Release Controversy. Tim! 21:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - the songs category is up for deletion as well. The release controversy article was a word-for-word duplicate of Sivaji:_The_Boss right down to the same graphics so I redirected it. Otto4711 23:53, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Parish

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The result of the debate was rename (see UK Parish for details). Angus McLellan (Talk) 08:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * parish
 * Merge into Category:Parishes of the United Kingdom, convention of Category:Parishes. -- Prove It (talk) 19:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Parishes of Essex as all the members are in Essex (subcat of Category:Parishes of England) (except Nayland-with-Wissington which is apparently in Suffolk and could go into Category:Parishes of Suffolk or Category:Parishes of England). -- roundhouse 19:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom Johnbod 03:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. This is actually a fall out from UK Parish.  Without making a change there, it would not be possible to just rename this category.  I did modify the template to use the broader category for now.  If there is interest from here the template could be modified to include the district as part of the name allowing the more specific categorization mentioned above.  I'll look at doing that later.  Vegaswikian 21:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Are these simply parishes or civil parishes? The template uses the later and the main cat uses both.  Vegaswikian 21:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Primates (bishops)

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The result of the debate was rename. After Midnight 0001 03:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Primates (bishops) to Category:Primates (religion)
 * Nominator's Rationale:


 * Rename for the 2 reasons given in the nomination.-- roundhouse 19:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom Johnbod 03:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename makes good sense! Thanks!! Pastorwayne 11:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Carlossuarez46 19:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:GameTap Games

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The result of the debate was delete, advertorial and non-defining. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * gametap games
 * Delete, as categorization by trivial attribute, borderline spam. -- Prove It (talk) 18:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, in same vein as Category:Virtual Console games. Would be a useful listing if the list would be populated. -- The T 13:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep for the reasons said above. There's 800-something games available on GameTap, so it's not like it's going to be a small list. -- ShadowMan1od 03:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * ''Keep It seems to be standard to have categories for all "systems" that games are released on, including purely digital systems like Virtual Console, XBLA, and Steam. Luigihann 01:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Entertainers by age upon death

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted as recreation. Vegaswikian 21:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Entertainers by age upon death ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Comment - most of the sub-cats are empty too. Lugnuts 17:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete all as recreated content. Deleted from September 24 2006 nomination. Otto4711 18:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category and all sub-cats are now tagged for speedy deletion. Otto4711 18:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, Otto. Lugnuts 18:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And now they're all gone. Sometimes I love this place. Otto4711 18:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Jeeva Cinematographed Films

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The result of the debate was delete. After Midnight 0001 03:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * jeeva cinematographed films
 * Delete, unless there is a consensus to create Films by cinematographer. -- Prove It (talk) 17:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete before we get Category:Films by gaffer. Otto4711 18:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Not a defining characteristic. Abberley2 19:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete; would be perfect for an in-bio list, plus the nomenclature is unattractive. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 18:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 19:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Jeeva Directed Films
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The result of the debate was rename. After Midnight 0001 03:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * jeeva directed films
 * Rename to Category:Films directed by Jeeva, convention of Category:Films by director. -- Prove It (talk) 17:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 18:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, I question whether these cats should really exist, why can't all a director's films be linked from the director's article? If kept, rename is proper. Carlossuarez46 19:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per the convention. We can certainly discuss the convention but this nom doesn't seem the best vehicle to do so. Otto4711 04:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Tim! 21:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Junk Science
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The result of the debate was delete. After Midnight 0001 03:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Junk Science ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete underpopulated. --ST47 Talk 16:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Also, the name "junk science" invokes POV. Pseudoscience can be more objectively defined. Doczilla 16:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:House (TV series)
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The result of the debate was no consensus. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:House (TV series) ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Keep multiple subcategories and articles are sufficient content. Tim! 21:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It has a category for episodes and characters, and an article on the show and a list of awards. Two articles and two subcats has not generally been seen as sufficient content to warrant an eponymous category for people, families, TV shows, bands or films and there has been no reason presented here as to why they suddenly become sufficient in this particular instance. Simply counting the number of articles or subcats is an overly simplistic method of analysis. Pretty much any topic one can think of as a category name, one could probably find a couple of aticles to park under it. Adopting the analysis offered here would bring CFD to a grinding halt as long as anyone opposing a deletion could find an extra article or two to dump into the cat. Otto4711 13:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep per Tim! - category serves a useful purpose. Matthew 14:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Tim's stated rationale for keeping this category seems somewhat at odds with his statement here regarding TV show categories in general. Neither of the two articles in this category would be undercategorized by the deletion of this container category and he seems to accept the notion that simply having episode and character categories doesn't warrant the eponymous container. Otto4711 13:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep per Tim!. -Severa (!!!) 14:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:High schools in Los Angeles County
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The result of the debate was no consensus. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * high schools in los angeles county
 * Merge into Category:High schools in California, convention of Category:High schools in the United States. -- Prove It (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge Unnecessary category, already covered by Category:High schools in California as the nominator said.The Sunshine Man 15:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and populate. Los Angeles County has a population of 10 million. Abberley2 19:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * merge per nom. Chris 00:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and populate per Abberley2. Category:High schools in California has over 800 articles, so a geographical sub-categorisation is overdue. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Abberley2 and BHG. -Sean Curtin 01:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Types of resort
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The result of the debate was rename Category:Types of resort to Category:Resorts by type. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Types of resort to Category:Types of resorts Vegaswikian 18:40, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose It is correct as it is. Possibly a British/U.S. English issue, but google hits are 26,800 to 729 in favour of the current form. Abberley2 00:38, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above. The pluralisation is already present in the word "Types". Resort is correct as a singular to describe what the types are of. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Moved from speedy.--Mike Selinker 15:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose Just wrong. Postlebury 10:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Resorts. There is virtually nothing in the main category and it simply makes sense to use it rather than have a lamely named subcat. Mangoe 13:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If kept, rename to Category:Resorts by type - this matches many other "X by Y" categorization schemes and there's no question that the plural is correct. Otto4711 19:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I can accept Category:Resorts by type. So my vote is changed.  Vegaswikian 21:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I can live with that, too. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Resorts by type per Otto or keep as is. I think the first option is slightly preferable as a standard "X by Y" form, but the improvement is slight enough that it may be more work than it's worth.  Xtifr tälk 12:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Astronomy institutes
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The result of the debate was merge Category:Astronomy institutes and Category:Astronomical institutes and departments to Category:Astronomy institutes and departments. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Astronomy institutes to Category:Astronomical institutes and departments Take a look, there's only one article in the old. There was a grammatical error in the title as well. Gilliam 06:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not eligible for speedy renaming. Abberley2 00:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Moved from speedy.--Mike Selinker 15:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge into Category:Astronomy institutes and departments - The division between "institute" and "department" is too gray for some entities (such as the Institute for Astronomy and Institute of Astronomy) to warrant splitting the articles into separate categories. However, it would be worth checking to see what is done for other fields of science.  Dr. Submillimeter 09:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Also note that "Astronomy" and not "Astronomical" should be used so that the category name matches Category:Astronomy organizations. Dr. Submillimeter 09:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Absolutely Fabulous
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Absolutely Fabulous ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Absolutely (TV series)
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Absolutely (TV series) ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:A Country Practice
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:A Country Practice ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The A-Team
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 06:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:The A-Team ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep multiple subcategories and articles are sufficient content. Tim! 21:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It has a category for episodes and characters, and an article on the show and a proposed film. Two articles and two subcats has not generally been seen as sufficient content to warrant an eponymous category for people, families, TV shows, bands or films and there has been no reason presented here as to why they suddenly become sufficient in this particular instance. Simply counting the number of articles or subcats is an overly simplistic method of analysis. Pretty much any topic one can think of as a category name, one could probably find a couple of aticles to park under it. Adopting the analysis offered here would bring CFD to a grinding halt as long as anyone opposing a deletion could find an extra article or two to dump into the cat. Otto4711 13:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Further comment - Tim's stated rationale for keeping this category seems somewhat at odds with his statement here regarding TV show categories in general. Neither of the two articles in this category would be undercategorized by the deletion of this container category and he seems to accept the notion that simply having episode and character categories doesn't warrant the eponymous container. Otto4711 13:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and precedent.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  09:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Periodic abstinence
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The result of the debate was Delete. A lot of discussion, but no discernible conclusions have emerged. However category is empty so eligible for deletion per WP:CSD. -- X damr  talk 13:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

*****NOTICE:***** The old discussion at Category talk:Periodic abstinence is now located at Category talk:Fertility tracking/Periodic abstinence. Joie de Vivre 11:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Periodic abstinence ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Keep - Systems that involve periodic abstinence from unprotected vaginal intercourse share strong similarities with each other that they do not share with other methods in the broader category of "behavioral methods of birth control". For navigation purposes, they should be grouped in their own category.  Lacking a comparably succinct descriptive term, I believe this category gives people a good idea of what they will read about when clicking on the articles listed here.  Listing "Billings method" alongside "coitus interruptus" does not provide such a context. Lyrl  Talk C 14:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment:Keeping the category would necessitate renaming it Category:Periodic abstinence from unprotected vaginal intercourse, with an explanation that sexual abstince, other forms of sex, or vaginal intercourse with barrier methods may be used. The category "periodic abstinence" sounds as though the methods therein necessarily involve periods of sexual abstinence, which is simply not accurate.  Joie de Vivre 15:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment - while the newly created category of "behavioral methods" may seem too small to be adding subcats to, the longstanding category of "periodic abstinence" contained not only Fertility awareness (main article), Billings ovulation method, and Rhythm Method, but also the articles Creighton Model and Natural family planning that JdV has removed entirely from any birth control category (without discussion). Lyrl Talk C 14:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Reply I am concerned that Catholic theological concepts are being categorized as discrete methods of birth control. The choice to abstain from intercourse in accordance with Catholic theology is not in and of itself a separate method of birth control, in that such a belief does not affect the effectiveness of the methodology used.  Joie de Vivre 15:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete unpopulated category. Some of you are getting sidetracked. CfD is about whether the topic is useful, logical, or policy-consistent for categorizing numerous articles. It's not. Doczilla 16:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The category is only unpopulated because JdV removed all articles this morning, with no prior discussion. Because there is no established consensus for this move, I do not believe that is a valid reason for deleting it.  My belief is that the topic is useful, logical, and policy-consistent because it groups different methods of and philosophies behind using periodic abstinence to avoid pregnancy.  This grouping is more useful than, and thus preferable to, grouping these articles with withdrawal, which does not share these characteristics.  I would appreciate if Doczilla or others who share the view that the category is not useful would explain why. Lyrl  Talk C 19:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, but... this was gone about procedurally incorrect. This should have simply been proposed as a category for renaming. From periodic abstinence to behavioral methods. The fact of the matter, not all of these methods require that a couple be abstinent. They could just have protected sex during the fertile periods. The abstinence requirement is normally associated with religious belief. However, not all who follow these methods are Catholic. I support renaming the cat, but again, it should have been proposed as a rename, instead of moving the category by hand without discussion and deleting the old cat after the fact.-Andrew c 02:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Lyrl. Changes to established categorization systems need to be made through discussion and consensus. I think there's a valid distinction to be made between those behavioral family planning methods which are based around observation of a woman's menstrual cycle (rhythm method and Creighton method) and those which are not (coitus interuptus, breastfeeding, non-vaginal penetrative intercourse). Methods which rely on such observation function through "periodic abstinence" from certain kinds of intercourse during the fertile periods. "Fertility awareness," as an alternative category title, strikes me as rather ambiguous, because to someone not familiar with the subject, "fertility awareness" could be read as referring to a general knowledge of human reproduction, rather than a specific class of birth control methods. So I think Category:Periodic abstinence is a logical category with a logical title. -Severa (!!!) 12:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Please excuse the repetition, but the phrase "periodic abstince" reads as "periods of sexual abstinence".  "Fertility awareness" does not necessarily involve sexual abstinence.  Fertility awareness can just as easily be used to indicate the period of time in which a couple will use barrier methods during intercourse, or when they might just stick to oral sex for the evening. Joie de Vivre 00:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Theoretically, I suppose we could keep Category:Periodic abstinence as a subcategory of Category:Behavioral methods of birth control, and place Creighton Model and Natural Family Planning therein, but it seems silly to create a category for only two items. This is especially true when both of these items associated with complying with the no-birth-control requirement of Catholicism.  The Creighton Model is itself a form of NFP.  Aren't these topics better categorized under Category:Theology of the Body or Category:Religious views on birth control? Joie de Vivre 00:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment: I don't know how many articles were in Category:Periodic abstinence originally, as it's been emptied, but, some potential candidates for inclusion, as behavioral methods based on observing a woman's fertility cycle, would seem to be Rhythm Method, Creighton Model, Billings ovulation method, Basal body temperature, and the summary article Fertility awareness itself. I don't think "abstinence" necessarily means complete sexual abstinence — I think, in this case, it means abstaining from coital intercourse, or at least unprotected coital sex, which is abstinence of a sort — but, if the the category's title is still problematic, it could always changed to something more specific, like "Category:Observational methods of birth control." As for whether these articles belong under "Category:Theology of the Body" or "Category:Religious views of birth control," I think that these might make good supplementary categorizations to "Category:Periodic abstinence," but I don't believe they should be sorted there exclusively. As Andrew c said above, not all people who practice NFP methods are Catholic, and religious categories aren't an intuitive place to look for articles on birth control. Look at Category:Fasting. Fasting is a practice endorsed by a number of religious institutions, used often in concordance with some sort of religious observation, but that doesn't make it an inherently or exclusively religious practice. Having Category:Fasting listed as a subcategory of only Category:Religious behaviour and experience and Category:Asceticism would be to overlook the fact that fasting can and is practiced for non-religious reasons, including for medical reasons (before undergoing certain tests), for weight loss or dieting, or as a form of political demonstration. Cross-categorization increases the accessability of articles, and is acceptable per WP:CAT. -Severa (!!!) 08:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment I still have not seen any arguments that this category is not useful, or that it is less useful than the category the articles were subsumed into, Category:Behavioral methods of birth control. I understand the objections to the name (that to some users it will imply abstinence from all sexual activity) - but no alternatives have been proposed by those advocating deletion.  What has been proposed instead, is to put the articles involving awareness of a woman's fertile period into a category with coitus interruptus and sexual abstinence.  The only argument has been that the resulting category title is less objectionable.  To me, this is not a valid argument to change the category structure to something less useful. Lyrl  Talk C 22:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The reason that the category is not useful is that nothing actually belongs in there. Joie de Vivre 20:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I do not believe we must separate the fertility awareness methods from the 'pull out method' and abstinence. We are talking about six articles here (or at least that is the current article count for the category, forgive me if I missed a few). I do not believe we need to over categorize here. That said, I wouldn't oppose creating a subcat within the behavioral methods category to hold the 5 articles on observational/counting methods. However, "periodic abstinence" is simply the wrong name to use. Maybe "fertility awareness", but then something like the rhythm method wouldn't fit in (which may be ok, because then the parent cat of behavioral methods wouldn't contain the single article "coitus interruptus".) Or maybe we could use "natural family planning" because we have sourced that use the term generically with no religious connotations. There is also "natural birth control" but "coitus interruptus" falls under that category among other things. Anyway, if you agree that "periodic abstinence" is a misnomer for these articles, Lyrl, do you have any rename proposals?-Andrew c 04:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * While I share Severa's concerns about the name "fertility awareness", one benefit of that name is that the category could then be sub-catted to Category:Pregnancy or some more specific category related to pregnancy acheivement. All these methods may also be used for pregnancy achievement as well as avoidance.  According to the epilogue of Weschler's book, the "large majority" of readers are seeking to conceive.  Anecdotally, many more women in the Ovusoft community use FA for pregnancy achievement than do for avoidance - there are many more TTC-related boards, which are significantly more active than the "Avoiding" board.  I believe it's an oversight that these methods have so far been categorized only as birth control.
 * "Natural family planning" is a more widely used term (it's what WHO calls this group of methods, for example), so in the sense of being more useful for navigation that would be a preferable name. But a Google search for natural family planning gives 60-70% of the hits as religious sites; I'm not sure using it as a generic category name would meet Wikipedia's normal criteria of "most common usage".  NFP is the most common term, but within usage of NFP, religious usage is more common than secular usage.  Kind of a catch-22.
 * As far as the Rhythm Method, the Standard Days Method is basically the same thing (day counting), and is referred to as "fertility awareness" in all the literature I've seen ( "The Standard Days Method (SDM) is a new simple fertility awareness-based method.") Neither Rhythm nor SDM observe any of the "primary fertility signs", but they are fairly accurate estimators of fertility (Rhythm Method has the same effectiveness in avoiding pregnancy as the contraceptive sponge and cervical cap, and SDM has improved effectiveness).  I believe it should be grouped with other methods for determining fertile periods of the menstrual cycle.


 * Because of the way this nomination was done - for "deletion" - I wasn't sure if this was the appropriate place for a renaming discussion, or if I should wait until this nomination was closed and maybe suggest discussion at Category talk:Periodic abstinence (if it still existed)? Lyrl Talk C 13:42, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Prior to the creation of the "methods" and "behavioral" categories (at the time of this deletion nomination), the oddball methods like coitus interruptus were just left in the main "birth control" category. I believe putting them directly into Category:Methods of birth control and making whatever the "periodic abstinence" category gets renamed to a direct subcat of "methods" would be a good solution to the problem of the behavioral category being practically emptied out (i.e. empty it out completely as not useful to navigation, if there is consensus to do that, and (again if there is consensus) tag it for speedy deletion after it's been empty for four days). Lyrl  Talk C 13:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Lyrl, I am fairly certain you are aware of the fact that Rhythm Method is not a method of fertility awareness. For anyone just joining us, the Rhythm Method is a calendar method that relies on statistical approximation of when a woman is likely to be fertile.  It is very different in nature from fertility awareness methods, which typically rely on observation of cervical mucus, viewing and feeling of cervical position, and/or charting of basal body temperature.  Please, let's not enter the headache of whether Rhythm is a form of fertility awareness -- it isn't.  I understand that you wish to group rhythm and the FA methods away from coitus interruptus and LAM.  You have made that clear.  But redefining the term "fertility awareness" to include Rhythm is not factual and it is not a sound basis for categorizing them together.  Joie de Vivre 14:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment I feel that it would be fine to go with Andrew's suggestion of creating a "Fertility awareness" category and keeping LAM, withdrawal, and Rhythm outside of that category, in Behavioral methods. If excluding Rhythm is problematic, another option would be to create something like "Category:Methods which detect or estimate fertility so that Rhythm could be included. Thoughts?  Joie de Vivre 14:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought there was consensus among the commentators here to move at least most of the articles that were (immediately prior to this nomination) in the "Periodic abstinence" category into a new category "Fertility awareness" (effectively a move, but the nominated category would still be deleted). However, that seems to have broken down at Talk:Rhythm Method and all commentators (including myself) seem to be back to their original !votes. Lyrl  Talk C 22:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

NOTICE: The old discussion at Category talk:Periodic abstinence is now located at Category talk:Fertility tracking/Periodic abstinence. Joie de Vivre 11:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


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State treasurers of the United States
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The result of the debate was Rename except for Florida. Vegaswikian 06:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:State Treasurers of Arkansas to Category:State treasurers of Arkansas
 * Category:State Treasurers of California to Category:State treasurers of California
 * Category:Chief Financial Officers of Florida to Category:State treasurers of Florida
 * Category:State Treasurers of Illinois to Category:State treasurers of Illinois
 * Category:Treasurers of Maryland to Category:State treasurers of Maryland
 * Oppose: The actual position in Maryland is "Treasurer". Mangoe 18:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:State Treasurers of Massachusetts to Category:State treasurers of Massachusetts
 * Category:State Treasurers of Mississippi to Category:State treasurers of Mississippi
 * Category:State Treasurers of Missouri to Category:State treasurers of Missouri
 * Category:State Treasurers of Oklahoma to Category:State treasurers of Oklahoma
 * Category:Oregon State Treasurers to Category:State treasurers of Oregon
 * Oppose change for Oregon: Current name matches official title. Need for consistency across media within state is more coimpelling than need for consistency of naming across Wikipedia with other states. See here. -Pete 18:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename for Oregon: The Oregon Consitution (Article VI, Section 4 - see here) refers only to the “Treasurer of State,” usually right next to the Secretary of State, or “State Treasurer” in other sections that refer to the office. In ORS 178.060 (found here), the term “State Treasurer” is used. While the constitutional title is certainly outdated, it does not appear that “Oregon State Treasurer” is the official title. "State treasurers of Oregon" seems more appropriate, in line with other states' categories. akendall (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename Oregon The official title of the position is "State Treasurer" (no "Oregon") per the statutes, so I'm going to agree with the suggested rename, with the lowercase "treasurers" because we are then referring to Oregon state treasurers generally and collectively and not to the State Treasurer. Katr67 05:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename Oregon, I am persuaded by Akendall and Katr67. Changing my "vote" from above. -Pete 18:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Chief Financial Officers of Florida to Category:Chief financial officers of Florida
 * Rename all to matching sentence case. -- Prove It (talk)'' 13:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename all except Florida - the constitutional name of the office is Chief Financial Officer and the correct name for the office should be maintained. Otto4711 14:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've modified the nomination ... however CFO isn't a proper noun unless its referring to the title itself, or a specific person. -- Prove It (talk) 15:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Additional comment I've already registered my opposition to the change for Maryland, but I'd also point out that the overall category is more or less garbage. A look at State Treasurer discloses that it is a catch-all for a number of positions which have the same names and different duties, together with some positions with different names that are alleged to have the same function as "treasurers". Well, in Maryland we have both a Treasurer and a State Comptroller. In a lot of these states, the treasurer is a simple functionary with no policy-setting powers (as is the case in Maryland). In others the treasurer appears to have some control over spending and contract-letting (in Maryland this would be the comptroller). The latter cases are often notable as such; the former are rarely notable simply by being office holders, and could simply be listed in articles on the office, if indeed such an article is even noteworthy. Mangoe 18:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mangoe, to the degree that I understand the issue. If the overall category is kept, it should have a more generic name than "state treasurers," though I'm not familiar enough with the relevant terminology to know what that should be. Furthermore, it should be "…in the United States," not "…of the United States." These officers are of their respective states, they are not Federal officials. -Pete 19:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: Rename parent category to Treasurers and financial officers of US states. -Pete 22:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose and '''Rename Category:State treasurers of Louisiana to match official titles. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 23:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Alleged girlfriends of Prince William
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The result of the debate was delete. After Midnight 0001 03:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * alleged girlfriends of prince william
 * Delete, as People by people. -- Prove It (talk) 13:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete (a) non-defining; (b) WP:BLP; (c) speculative ("alleged"); and (d) not useful. If there is anything someone wants to know about his girlfriends, find it first in his bio where someone can see to BLP and RS issues and follow links to anyone else's bio. Carlossuarez46 18:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * delete per nom. Abberley2 19:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete asap Johnbod 03:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. David Kernow (talk) 09:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Categories that include the word "alleged" in the title are immediately suspect for bias/unverifiability. Dugwiki 20:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. VegaDark (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Carlossuarez46's excellent analysis. WjBscribe 10:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Yikes. :) --WoohookittyWoohoo! 05:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. I created the category, intending to add other names/articles that have been placed into Wikipedia (and possibly some of these have also been removed) simply because these women have been allegedly associated with Prince William. When I used the word "alleged" and "allegedly", I used it because several British and non-British newspapers reported at least one woman's possible relationship with the prince (and did so at least back in 1998-1999 in three to four cases).  Since the category does not include any other names at present, go ahead and delete it.wikibiohistory 07:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:British India
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The result of the debate was merge. After Midnight 0001 03:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:British India to Category:British rule in India


 * Merge, duplicate into the longer established and better populated category. OrchWyn 11:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom Johnbod 03:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per above and categoryredirect. David Kernow (talk) 09:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Postlebury 10:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The Nine (TV series)
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The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 06:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:The Nine (TV series) to Category:The Nine (TV series) characters
 * Nominator's Rationale:
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Category:The 72 names on the Eiffel Tower
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * the 72 names on the eiffel tower
 * Delete, already a list at The 72 names on the Eiffel Tower. Not every list ought to become a category. -- Prove It (talk) 04:06, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete - overcategorization by award or honor. The list is more than sufficient. Otto4711 05:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and per Otto. The list is quite sufficient. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-defining. Oliver Han 11:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Otto. Carlossuarez46 19:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The Goodies episodes
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The result of the debate was no consensus. Angus McLellan (Talk) 08:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:The Goodies episodes to Category:The Goodies (TV series) episodes
 * Nominator's Rationale:


 * Comment, matching the parent is aesthetic and serves no practical use.~<b style="color:purple;">Zythe</b>Talk to me! 20:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose unnecessary change. Tim! 21:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:SCTV
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:SCTV ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Lou Gehrig Memorial Award ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete overcat of award. :) Bulldog123 03:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename Pastorwayne 11:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The Jeffersons
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:The Jeffersons ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Space: 1999 vehicles
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The result of the debate was No Consensus. No appetite to keep, but no clear view has emerged as to exactly where this should be merged. -- X damr  talk 13:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Space: 1999 vehicles to Category:Fictional vehicles


 * Merge - small category, unlikely to expand. The parent category is not so large as to require subdivision for this particular show. Otto4711 01:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Unsure, as I say below I started this. The person who started the Moon buggy entry put them under the 'Fictional Spacecraft' category which clashed somewhat.  After some debating, the user who took issue with it suggested I start a new category as it was using the Fictional Spacecraft infobox and so on.  What about putting it under an overall Space:1999 category as I've been doing quite a bit of work on Space:1999 Douglasnicol 15:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Fictional spacecraft and Category:Space: 1999. -Sean Curtin 02:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Fictional spacecraft. We don't need a Category:Space: 1999. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Still won't think this will work, please see my concerns in the entry about Fictional Science Fiction Ground Vehicles. Now, I will repeat that I'm not intentionally trying to be awkward here, but you might see what I mean.  Incidentally, would you object to vehicles, spacecraft, weapons etc, all coming under the heading of Space:1999 Technology rather than individual ones?  If you do, may I point out that for example, Warhammer 40k already has stuff like this, and I fully intend to expand the Space:1999 material, not just leave stubs. Douglasnicol 22:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep as is (this category could indeed be expanded with the S:1999 spaceships as well, as a spacecraft is a "vehicle"), a moving land vehicle is not a spacecraft. Matthew 17:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, but I'm open to keeping vehicles, spacecraft, personal weapons, and other related materials under a 'Space 1999 Technology heading as well. Land vehicles shouldn't go along with spacecraft as they are different. Douglasnicol 18:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Instant Star
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Instant Star ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep multiple subcategories and articles are sufficient content. Tim! 21:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Tim's stated rationale for keeping this category seems somewhat at odds with his statement here regarding TV show categories in general. None of the articles in this category would be undercategorized by the deletion of this container category and he seems to accept the notion that simply having episode and character categories doesn't warrant the eponymous container. Otto4711 13:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Fictional Science Fiction Ground Vehicles
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The result of the debate was No Consensus. -- X damr  talk 13:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * fictional science fiction ground vehicles
 * Merge into Category:Fictional vehicles, or Rename to Category:Fictional science fiction ground vehicles. -- Prove It (talk) 01:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. The parent category is not so massive as to require subdivision along this somewhat arbitrary line. Otto4711 01:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment How about just science fiction ground vehicles? We already know they're fictional. Bulldog123 03:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing ... both fiction and ground are semi-implied, since vehicles almost always mean ground. Either Science fiction vehicles or Science fiction ground vehicles is also fine. -- Prove It (talk) 04:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - "science fiction vehicles" would just put an additional layer of categorization between the parent category and subcats like "Star Wars vehicles." As far as "science fiction ground vehicles" goes, are such vehicles really so different that an existing vehicle category couldn't handle them? Laser Tank for example, fits nicely in the "fictional tanks" category. Otto4711 05:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Fictional ground vehicles. 70.55.90.110 04:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Both of these are in their appropriate "Fictional (vehicle type)" category.--Mike Selinker 14:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I started the category, and its not that long ago so its hardly had time to have a large number of entries. I think it would be a mistake to split the entries for example tank to fictional tanks and the moon buggy to somewhere else.  Either a fictional sci fi vehicles or fictional vehicles would be fine by me.  Part of the reason was that the person who started the Moonbuggy entry used the "Fictional Spacecraft" template and infobox.  I was urged to create a new one.  If at all possible, if you have to merge, could you at least keep a Space:1999 category in as it seems to be slowly growing.  I've been devoting a bit more time to new entries and being particularly interested in Space:1999 have been expanding the category.  Here it is here   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Space:_1999  Douglasnicol 15:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with a Space 1999 category, though others might.--Mike Selinker 16:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason why others might? I'm not talking about solely having a Space:1999 category, but putting it in addition to whatever other category it goes into? Douglasnicol 17:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As you may see from some of the other nominations there are questions as to the value of categories named after TV shows. Otto4711 18:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I just thought if theres a 'root' category that it makes navigation easier. For instance the category that exists shows the episode list, the list of characters, the show entry and stuff like Moonbase Alpha and the technical noteboot.  It makes referencing them easier.  To be honest though, I don't know why Space:1889 RPG is there as it has nothing to do with the Space:1999 tv show. Douglasnicol 19:06, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that's a minority opinion here. It happens to be my opinion, but it's still a minority.--Mike Selinker 23:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Fictional spacecraft. If the lunar rover is in Category:Lunar spacecraft, a fictional version of it should go into Category:Fictional spacecraft. -Sean Curtin 02:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I can't really agree for one reason. The Laser Tank, Moon Buggy etc WAS in the fictional spacecraft category.  User Matthew started editing the page, he took issue with it being in the spacecraft category, stating it was not a SPACEcraft, then he started deleting infoboxes etc.  We eventually got our disagreement sorted out amicably.  However, if this is then recategorised to fictional spacecraft, the article might end up being altered again due to disagreements.  I'm not trying to be difficult, but try to see my point of view, in fact if you look at the edit history of the Laser Tank page you'll see what was controversial. Douglasnicol 16:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


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Category:I Love Lucy
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:I Love Lucy ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Iron Chef
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The result of the debate was Listfy cast and crew and then Delete. Consensus was clearly there for deletion when discussions ended. The very late keep vote does not raise any reason to not follow the precedent on recent similar closing saying delete or listify are the consensus action. The issue of adding the links to multiple article can be resolved with the template included in the discussion. Vegaswikian 06:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Iron Chef ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep 3 TV series involved here. Also, some of the people in this category (example Yukio Hattori) are better categorized here than anywhere else. --After Midnight 0001 03:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * He's a Japanese chef on television and also the president of a cooking school. He can be categorized as any of those things in addition to his current categorization as a Japanese television presenter instead of the inappropriate categorization under the project. Otto4711 15:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, he could, but none of them would suit him as well as categorizing him for what he is most notable; plus, you still have 3 shows, plus other people. --After Midnight 0001 22:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Not trying to be difficult, but if the category is kept then I'm taking the people out of it becuas there is a very strong consensus against categorizing people by project. We have deleted countless categories for actors by series, writers by series, directors by series, miscellaneous "crew" by series and so on, so either way the guy doesn't belong in the category. Keeping the category on the basis of wanting to put articles in it that don't belong in it is not a good reason for keeping. Otto4711 04:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you did not see my reply to Veganwikian below. --After Midnight 0001 04:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Trying to close. In looking at this, consensus seems to be to delete and many of the similar categories have been deleted so that would appear to be the right choice.  In looking at this most of the articles are people.  Some of which are in the regular cast.  So, I'm leaning to close as a listify and delete.  Vegaswikian 23:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with someone doing a category cleanup. But I still think that this category should remain as it is a "franchise" of multiple TV series, which I believe distinguishes it from most other TV show categories.  Feel free to listify the cast, but I still think that the cat should remain for the 3 shows, the current list, a new cast list if one is created, and the futurama article. --After Midnight 0001 01:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * All three shows and the Futurama episode can be linked together through the text of the articles. There is no need for the category for navigational purposes. Otto4711 04:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. If someone were to try to put the episode on each of those articles and the lists it would be quickly reverted.  A category is simply the best way to navigate these. --After Midnight 0001 04:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This should work:


 * Vegaswikian 06:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:In Living Color
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:In Living Color ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Keep. Neutral. Not this one, Otto. The six articles there are all reasonably categorized under this umbrella category. They're not improperly placed there (like actors would be).--Mike Selinker 05:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - the nomination is not predicated on the notion that the articles would not be correctly categorized here if the category were retained. The nomination is predicated on the fact that the articles (six for now although it looks like Super Bimbo will be going away) are all appropriately interlinked through the main article and each other. Otto4711 05:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And as I've said before, I believe that reason is not one that justifies the deletion of a category. After all, the planets of the solar system are all easily interlinked. But if these articles start going away or getting different categories, it's okay to delete.--Mike Selinker 14:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The show's article in in eight additional categories, cast in one, episodes in two, Homie the Clown in four, sketches in one and Super Bimbo in three. Otto4711 15:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems okay, then. Maybe put the episodes and sketches into category:In Living Color episodes.--Mike Selinker 16:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Mike's argument doesn't convince me, because anything notable should be mentioned (and therefore linked) in the main article. Categories are best used as navigation aids rather than as just something that gets appended to minimally notable one-off characters to make them seem like they belong somewhere here. Carlossuarez46 18:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The Restless Years
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 07:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:The Restless Years ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 19:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia
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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands per discussion and for consistency with parent category. -- X damr  talk 13:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )

Given that every other category relating to this territory gives its full name (South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands) it would make sense for this to do likewise. Rename to. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment all entries in the category are on South Georgia itself... so the name is appropriate. 70.55.90.110 04:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I feel that rename is somewhat excessive. Any other suggestions? Bulldog123 07:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom for consistency.Oliver Han 11:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Proposed new category name is cumbersome in the extreme, and there were no such whaling stations in the South Sandwich Islands. Short cat. names are far better, except perhaps as supercat. "South Georgia and the Sandwich Islands" is the full name of the territory - but this is similar to using "Towns of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" etc for all UK entries. --MacRusgail 18:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename. The parent category is Category:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and that is also the name of the main article.  So why not use it here?  Yes, it makes the cat name long but accurate.  Now if there is a reason beyond this one category to subcat the parent, then I might consider rethinking my position.  Vegaswikian 21:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per above and perhaps even if none of the stations categorized is in the South Sandwich Islands, as South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands appears to be treated as a single overseas territory. Regards, David Kernow (talk) 09:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment - the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is also a single "territory", but no one uses the full title.--MacRusgail 11:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose rename Having unnecessarily long category names lead to category clutter just as much as having lots of silly categories. If none of the stations are in the South Sandwich Islands, then the original name is perfectly correct.  And there is no reason why Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia cannot be a valid child of Category:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. Lesnail 20:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose all the whaling stations are on South Georgia. Renaming will just make it more unclear as to where the stations are located, if you use the category for navigation. 132.205.44.134 22:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Lesnail and 132.205.44.134. There's no need for the long category name. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Lesnail and anon. Carlossuarez46 19:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment as a compromise, I have created a new category Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and put the Category:Whaling stations of South Georgia into it as a subcat. There are none in the SSIs I know of, or on the islands surrounding SG itself. So in short, the old category remains, but the new cat has also been created. --MacRusgail 15:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair solution. Good work. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * MacRusgail, I'm sure that was well-intentioned, I'm afraid that seems to me like the worst possible outcome :( all that this has achieved is to create a category which will only ever contain one thing: a sub-category. I have nominated it for deletion: see Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 17. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename for consistency with category:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and all other subcategories thereof. Haddiscoe 02:14, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


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Category:The Red Green Show
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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 06:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:The Red Green Show ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 19:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep multiple subcategories and articles are sufficient content. Tim! 21:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Tim's stated rationale for keeping this category seems somewhat at odds with his statement here regarding TV show categories in general. None of the articles in this category would be undercategorized by the deletion of this container category and he seems to accept the notion that simply having episode and character categories doesn't warrant the eponymous container. Otto4711 13:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and precedent.  &gt; R a d i a n t &lt;  09:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Fictional gingers
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The result of the debate was deleted— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 00:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Fictional gingers ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )
 * See: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_18.
 * See: Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_20.
 * See: Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_May_12.
 * See: Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_May_11.


 * Delete, as recreation of , deleted as part of the May 12th discussion. -- Prove It (talk) 00:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete recreation, different phrase Bulldog123 03:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Oliver Han 11:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 18:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Dark Lords
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The result of the debate was nuked as it had been before; protected from recreation— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 23:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category:Dark Lords ( [ edit] &#124; talk &#124; [ history] &#124; [ links] &#124; [ watch] &#124; [ logs] )


 * Delete per discussion of November 21st. -- Prove It (talk) 00:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as recreation of deleted subjective, undefinable stuff. Carlossuarez46 18:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete - This is a vague, informal term. Since this is a recreation, maybe it should be blocked.  Dr. Submillimeter 09:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I really fail to see how it's hard to define whether or not a character is a Dark Lord.YourLord
 * Is Lex Luthor a Dark Lord? What about Doctor Doom? The First Evil? Regardless, a consensus of voters has twice said otherwise.~<b style="color:purple;">Zythe</b>Talk to me! 21:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Has some pillock deleted "The Dark Lord" article that I spent so long creating? Because whenever I type it in it re-directs to fantasy tropes and conventions. YourLord
 * Don't call me a pilock, we have rules about civility here. I redirected to match "Dark Lord". Don't be personally offended.~<b style="color:purple;">Zythe</b>Talk to me! 17:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. YourLord


 * I believe that the Category and Article for Dark Lord should be kept. The image of a Dark Lord is a cultural icon and is a commonly used and popular plot device/character in novels and films. Many of the main villains in fantasy works are specifically referred to as "Dark Lord", such as the "Dark Lords of the Sith" of Star Wars, and Voldermort and Morgoth (as well as some of his followers) are referred to as "Dark Lords". The term is also used in video games, in the game Shadow the Hedgehog, Shadow specifically refers to Black Doom as a Dark Lord and in the final battle in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Ganon is referred to as a Dark Lord in the boss subtitles. Unknown Dragon 18:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For the record of this topic, I also redirected Dark Lord (Character trope) to Fantasy tropes#Dark lord, which succinctly covers the topic and references it. While it's likely impossible to create this as a topic of individual merit on Wikipedia due to policy on reliable sources and notability etc., it may be a good idea to check out a Wikia page on a trope-specific Wiki where the rules are less specific or strict.~<b style="color:purple;">Zythe</b>Talk to me! 19:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, while I like the idea of a Dark Lords category, it's far too subjective to work. The category is already being populated with random villains holding no similarities at all the fantasy trope (case in point being Venom (at this time)). TheJoust 02:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy per nom.  ~ I&#39;m anonymous
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