Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 23



Disneyworld restaurants

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The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!"  16:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * restaurants in walt disney world resort hotels
 * downtown disney (florida) restaurants
 * Merge into Category:Restaurants in Walt Disney World, overcategorization. -- Prove It (talk) 23:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge as suggested above. --Rtphokie 11:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Nas

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as re-created content. Songs and albums should never go into an eponymous category.--Mike Selinker 16:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * nas


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Speedy delete per nom as recreated content. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep i can make it bigger if that's the reason. West Coast Ryda 10:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * EDIT - Look out now, is it better? West Coast Ryda 10:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, in fact it's much worse. It looks like all you've done is add the contents of Category:Nas songs and Category:Nas albums to this cat unnecessarily. Nas's songs and albums are all linked to Nas through text and a navtemplate. Nas's main article serves as an appropriate navigational hub for articles relating to Nas. Additionally, you recreated the category against the consensus of the community, which is in general not a good thing to do. Otto4711 15:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Afghan politicians

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 * The result of the discussion was: speedy close. The same proposal (by the same nominator) was discussed at CfD only last week, and closed today with a clear "keep": see CfD Sept 17. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Afghan politicians to Category:Politicians of Afghanistan
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Keep, the notion that non-Pashtuns are non-Afghans is a quite strong pov assumptions. --Soman 20:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep we already discussed this, it closed TODAY!. -- Prove It (talk) 20:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Checkmate personnel

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The result of the debate was delete. Sam Blacketer 19:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * checkmate personnel


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete ridiculous categorization. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete previous consensus is to have not team categories. (Emperor 23:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC))
 * Delete Even if categories like this were agreed upon, Checkmate isn't even a major enough group to justify having its own category. Stephen Day 23:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - This info can be found at List of Checkmate members - 69.182.73.240 00:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. We've established a clear precedent against this. Doczilla 05:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & ample precedent. Carlossuarez46 02:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Famous cemeteries

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The result of the debate was delete. After Midnight 0001 01:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * famous cemeteries


 * Nominator's rationale: "Famous" is point-of-view. Possessing an article is enough to claim a cemetery's notability. - Dudesleeper · Talk 18:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge contents into appropriate subcat of Category:Cemeteries by country. -- Prove It (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The articles already appear to be categorised in the appropriate subcats of Category:Cemeteries by country. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete subjective cat. Wryspy 05:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I will assume famous = notable, and is superfluous. Carlossuarez46 02:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Fictional characters who can fly

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The result of the debate was Keep. - jc37 12:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Category:Fictional characters who can fly → Category:Fictional characters who can defy gravity

Category:Marvel Comics characters who can fly

 * Category:Marvel Comics characters who can fly → Category:Marvel Comics characters who can defy gravity

Category:DC Comics characters who can fly

 * Category:DC Comics characters who can fly → Category:DC Comics characters who can defy gravity

Category:Anime and manga characters who can fly

 * Category:Anime and manga characters who can fly → Category:Anime and manga characters who can defy gravity

Category:Flying Pokémon

 * Category:Flying Pokémon → Category:Pokémon who can defy gravity

Nominator's rationale, Rename
This would seem to clear up confusion on all fiction characters who aren't limited to keeping their feet on the ground because of physical, paranormal, superhuman, technological, and supernatural means. For example, while Casper the Friendly Ghost is categorized in the parent cat., some may argue that ghosts do not fly, claiming that being an ephemeral entity is not the same as flying, and would most certainly go for other ghost-related beings in fiction like genies, or even real-life apparitions, see ghost and orbs. In Bleach anime and manga, the Soul Reapers tend to "air walk" or "air hop", or just stand still in the air, but not necessarily fly like Superman or most Dragon Ball characters. Hellsing`s Alucard does not quite hover like some fiction vampires, he can only defy gravity to an unknown limit. And heroes like Ultraman, Astro Boy or the Gundam Wing`s Mobile Suits fly with only technological support, so I think this rename would explain further why they are categorized here along with these flight-capable beings or entities in the first place. And there are those who levitate themselves or appear to "fly" by use of [advanced] telekinesis, Jean Grey from Marvel Comics and Mewtwo from Pokémon are such examples. If this rename proposal seems unuseful then a separate set of categories should be created to elude these potential discrepancies. Any additional thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thoughts:
 * The phrase "defy gravity" is as awkward as "fly" since it doesn't mesh well with mechanical/powered flight, wings or jet propulsion, or flight that isn't flight, the TK examples. In these cases flight happens, but not by ignoring gravity.
 * Most of what you've put forward argue for reshuffeling the subs by method rather than medium. ie "...fly by..." ...mechanical means, ...lighter than air, ... TK, ... defying gravity, etc.
 * It also argues that the cat should be converted to a list since placement would need some sort of citation. Lacking that it becomes POV and OR. - J Greb 20:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm really, really trying to not have these categories listified since WP:NOT, and that it risks a complete deletion. Technically, apparitions such as ghosts and vampires (unless in winged form) don't "fly" in the air, though I guess it depends on another person's view. What do you suggest J Greb? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Realistically? Treat it like a fire ant nest: leave it alone unless it's real life-or-death need to tinker with it. Right now we've had had previos CfDs on the entire family of superhuman powers cats with the result of delete some, listify others, and keep the rest. Mostly the debate, IIRC, was brought up on grounds of over catting and overly vague cats. Flight is one that sailed through, like super-strength, telepathy, and shapeshifting. That should have been goo enough and left things like this for debate on the cat's talk page.All that bringing it back to a CfD, even for renaming, does is open it back up to the same debate that's already been settled. "Flight" is specific enough for the purpose of cat here, discussing the flavor of flight may be something for an article such as Flight in fiction. Such an article would also lend itself to using a few examples of each method. - J Greb 21:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Leave category:Flying Pokémon alone. Flying Pokémon are a type of Pokémon, like category:Electric Pokémon. It does not mean "Pokémon who can fly," at least not necessarily. No opinion on the rest of the nomination.--Mike Selinker 19:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't rename  "Defying gravity" sounds overly specific but not well defined. Everybody knows what it means for people or creatures to fly, and there's no need for technical arguments about the definition. —Michael Z. 2007-09-26 03:46 Z 
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Category:Political parties in Taiwan (Republic of China)

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The result of the debate was reverse move, there was no consensus to drop "(Republic of China)". Kbdank71 17:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * political parties in taiwan (republic of china)


 * Nominator's rationale:
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Merge/Delete both this category and Political parties in Taiwan into Category:Political parties in the Republic of China. 70.55.201.4 20:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Spanish Letters

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The result of the debate was delete all. After Midnight 0001 01:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * spanish letters


 * french letters


 * portuguese letters


 * dutch letters


 * albanian letters


 * swedish letters


 * german letters


 * polish letters


 * icelandic letters


 * hungarian letters


 * czech letters


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete. Pretty pointless indeed. Two things to note: If kept, then the capitalisation should be standardised, and also, one of the category names has the potential for somewhat embarrassing ambiguity. Grutness...wha?  00:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Doczilla 05:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete not needed and somewhat underpopulated, the German one has 2 entries, where I can think of at least 4. Carlossuarez46 02:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


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Universities by grant

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 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete as repost of deleted content. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * space-grant universities and colleges - deleted
 * sea-grant universities and colleges - deleted
 * Delete both as repost of deleted content. -- Prove It (talk) 14:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Motorsport infobox template categories

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The result of the debate was rename all. the wub "?!"  16:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Motorsport infoboxes to Category:Motorsport infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:Auto racing infoboxes to Category:Auto racing infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:A1 Grand Prix infoboxes to Category:A1 Grand Prix infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:Formula One infoboxes to Category:Formula One infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:NASCAR infoboxes to Category:NASCAR infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports car racing infoboxes to Category:Sports car racing infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:V8 Supercar infoboxes to Category:V8 Supercar infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:World Rally Championship infoboxes to Category:World Rally Championship infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:Motorcycle racing infoboxes to Category:Motorcycle racing infobox templates
 * Propose renaming Category:Race report infoboxes to Category:Motor race report infobox templates
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename. --Mike Selinker 14:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Motor racing venues categories

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The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!"  16:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Motor racing venues in Wisconsin to Category:Motorsport venues in Wisconsin
 * Propose renaming Category:Defunct motor racing venues in Canada to Category:Defunct motorsport venues in Canada
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename both. --Mike Selinker 14:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename., per previous discussion. Could speedy rename the Wisconsin category as I started it. Royal broil  12:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Latter Day Saint businesspeople

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The result of the debate was delete. Sam Blacketer 19:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * latter day saint businesspeople


 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete both religion and ethnicity are irrelevant here, see also discussion of December 8th. -- Prove It (talk) 14:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Commenton my rationale for setting up this category. Some people do want this information, that's why the List of Latter Day Saints was set up.  I thought the use of a category was a better approach because the sources are already identified in the articles and it is easier to maintain.  It may be helpful for someone writing a report, for example, on a certain businessperson to select one that is of a particular faith.  The unique aspects of an LDS lifestyle in business is the subject of the book "The Mormon Way of Doing Business", so there is enough of a connection between the religion and business to warrant this publication.  And, even if the preceding information is not compelling enough, what is the harm in having this category?  Some may feel the connection irrelevant, others may not.  Why not just include it? Alanraywiki 00:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * To answer your last question, see WP:HARMLESS. The harm is setting a precedent for creating and allowing categories that merely are intersections of religion and other status. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 07:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's because religion is irrelevant to this occupation, and as such is non-defining. On the other hand, a list article doesn't have to be based on a defining characteristic, and it can be referenced.  An article would be better. -- Prove It (talk) 14:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom as non-notable intersection. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Overcategorization. Doczilla 05:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & OCAT. Carlossuarez46 02:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Cocktails with tequila or mezcal

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The result of the debate was delete. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Category:Cocktails with tequila or mezcal
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Comment It appears to be automatically generated by WPMIXInfobox. I have no views at present on whether this is a useful category, but I will have let WP:MIX know of the nomination.  BencherliteTalk 14:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - I'm a little suspicious of the whole cocktails by ingredient structure but we definitely don't need a category for drinks which might contain one or the other of whatever alcohol. Otto4711 19:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Any item by ingredient leads to the creation of too many categories. Doczilla 05:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I have emptied the cat so it can be deleted if necessary. If/when it is, I will post on WP:MIX suggesting they change the template. MurphiaMan 06:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Doczilla, but deplore emptying of category before discussion is closed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Voice teacher
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The result of the debate was - I moved the text to Voice teacher, but since there are currently two members in the category, I didn't delete the category. Feel free to re-nominate for deletion. - jc37 13:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Convert to article Category:Voice teacher to article Voice teacher
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Convert, rename per nom, although great numbers of professional classical singers do masterclasses etc at some point, & really the new category should be restricted to those, like these two, who made it their main activity after a certain point. Johnbod 13:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Virginia Tech Hokies Athletic Hall of Fame members
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The result of the debate was rename. Kbdank71 16:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Virginia Tech Hokies Athletic Hall of Fame members to Category:Virginia Tech Sports Hall of Fame members
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename per nom, but no objection to deletion. This doesn't sound like a particularly defining award. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


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Games by company
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The result of the debate was Rename per nom. - jc37 11:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * rename Category:Avalon Hill to Category:Avalon Hill games
 * rename Category:Games Workshop to Category:Games Workshop games (removed this one, as it had lots of non-game articles)
 * rename Category:Milton Bradley to Category:Milton Bradley games
 * rename Category:Privateer Press to Category:Privateer Press games
 * rename Category:Simulations Publications, Inc. (SPI) to Category:Simulations Publications, Inc. games
 * rename Category:Steve Jackson Games to Category:Steve Jackson Games games
 * rename Category:TSR, Inc. to Category:TSR, Inc. games
 * rename Category:White Wolf to Category:White Wolf games (removed this one, per the suggestion below)
 * rename Category:JoWooD to Category:JoWooD Productions games
 * rename Category:Elf Games to Category:Elf Corporation games
 * rename Category:Nexon Games to Category:Nexon Corporation games
 * rename Category:Triumph Studios game to Category:Triumph Studios games
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Comment: What about the base article on the company itself? Those are generally included in these categories (and definitely are, in the cases I'm familiar with), and are certainly not games. --Rindis 17:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As with category:Albums by artist, the company's name would go in the header. Only (as in the case of Games Workshop) when there are a lot of non-game related articles would there need to be a category that contains the name of the company other than category:Game manufacturers.--Mike Selinker 19:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay. I generally agree with the complaint about people, though Roberts (for AH) and Dunigan and Simonsen (for SPI) are tied up enough in the history of the company as to give me some qualms. --Rindis 19:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The same could be said about any company founders. The rub comes in though that the person and the company are already cross-linked. And the person should, at the least, be mentioned in the articles for any products he or she had a hand in, if not having a biblio for cross-linking. This is the same as with actors, writers, etc. - J Greb 19:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Looking at the cats, and their subs, it's arguable that both the TSR and White Wolf cats should be treated in the same manner as GW since there is a good chunk of articles there that relate to elements and concepts from the games, not just the game products themselves. Other than that, the move from eponymous cats to "Games by ..." cats makes sense. - J Greb 19:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * TSR looks like all games to me, but I can see your point on White Wolf.--Mike Selinker 00:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I was looking at the subs as well, D&D specifically. That sub holds articles dealing with game concepts, game elements, a TV series, publication, websites, and its own subs for more concepts, more elements, novels, and images. - J Greb 00:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything in D&D extends off the game, and every game category contains the kind of contents you're describing. I think it's OK.--Mike Selinker 02:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I created the White Wolf games category as a subcategory of White Wolf. I'm not convinced on TSR, but someone else might be.--Mike Selinker 04:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - I was about to close this, but I want to ask first: is "...Inc. games" correct? - jc37 12:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Grammatically? I'd have to say yes since "Inc." is an abbreviation, and abbreviations should be punctuated. - J Greb 13:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I kept the "Inc."s in the two companies that always used them: Simulations Publications, Inc. called itself "SPI," and TSR, Inc. almost always used it. I don't think that's true for, say, White Wolf, Inc., which only uses the Inc. when it's necessary.--Mike Selinker 20:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Music from Leipzig
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 * The result of the discussion was: speedily closed because nomination withdrawn, with no votes to delete. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * music from leipzig


 * Nominator's rationale: Withdrawn. --Alksub 21:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Actually there is Category:Music by city. Tim! 09:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Awards and decorations of the military of Germany
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The result of the debate was rename. Kbdank71 16:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Awards and decorations of the military of Germany to Category:Lists of Knight's Cross recipients
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Expand the category tree here Surely there are other German military awards, and we would appear to need categories for them. DGG (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:LGBT rights in the United States
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The result of the debate was withdrawn. Kbdank71 16:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:LGBT rights in the United States to Category:LGBT political advocacy groups in the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: Nom withdrawn. --Alksub 22:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep and populate properly, per convention of Category:LGBT rights by country. There are certainly enough articles about the topic to sustain a category. Otto4711 02:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and populate per Otto. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Question How are the two categories different? DGG (talk) 23:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Because one is the issue, and the other is the people who works on the issue. It's like the difference between rock music and rock bands, or between politics and political parties. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge the other way, or make Category:LGBT political advocacy groups in the United States a subcat of Category:LGBT rights in the United States. I think "LGBT rights" can be said to encompass what is essentially "LGBT rights groups," but not the other way. Bayard Rustin definitely isn't an advocacy group! — <span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#000066 1px solid;background-color:#ECF1F7;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">xDanielx T/C 04:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


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Category:Indian pilots
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The result of the debate was merge. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Suggest merging Category:Indian pilots to Category:Indian aviators
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Delete. Only member of category at present is Guy Gibson, who may have been born in India but was not Indian (born in India to British parents who moved back to UK when he was three, according to the article's sources).  If the situation remains the same at closing, then deletion is the preferable option.  BencherliteTalk 16:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. I have removed Guy Gibson from the category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Landmines
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The result of the debate was rename as proposed. Sam Blacketer 19:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Landmines to Category:Land mines
 * Nominator's rationale:


 * Rename per nomination. Tim! 09:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. BencherliteTalk 16:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. There isn't much more to say, really. ZZ Claims~ Evidence 15:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


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