Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 November 11



Category:Defunct financial services companies

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 18:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming


 * Category:Defunct financial companies to Category:Defunct financial services companies
 * Category:Defunct financial companies of the United States to Category:Defunct financial services companies of the United States
 * Category:Defunct financial companies by country to Category:Defunct financial services companies by country
 * Nominator's rationale: (updated proposal) Rename to match the parent Category:Financial services companies and the main article, financial services. Both other subcategories of by country already use the "financial services" form. -choster (talk) 23:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * rename per nom. Nominator correctly states the situation of the other related category names. And these names are more helpful to the reader. Hmains (talk) 01:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename: per nom Peet Ern (talk) 10:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC) (But we will need them down to the Category:Defunct financial services companies by city won't we!)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Champawat, Category:People from Rudraprayag

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 18:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Propose deletion Category:People from Champawat, Category:People from Rudraprayag
 * Nominator's rationale: These categories have only 1 entry, which is inaccurate - Jim Corbett did not hail from Rudraprayag or Champawat, but from Naini Tal. The articles and mother categories of Champawat and Rudraprayag, both small towns are also sparse and contain no biographies. Shiva   (Visnu)  22:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Whoever created these categories appears to have mistakenly thought Jim Corbett came from one or both of these places, which is not the case; and it seems there are no other articles on Wikipedia which belong in them. An alternative approach would simply be to remove these categories from Jim Corbett (hunter); then, if no one else is added to them, after four days they can be speedy-deleted as empty categories (WP:CSD). Terraxos (talk) 23:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:CARICOM

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Caribbean Community (organization). Kbdank71 18:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:CARICOM to Category:Caribbean Community
 * Nominator's rationale: To match parent article. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 13:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Johnbod (talk) 15:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose sounds too generic. Always becomes a repository for NON- CARICOM related stuff..  E.g. random stuff going on in CARICOM member countries.
 * Oppose Regardless of the name, the structure needs to be reorganized. I'm not crazy about either proposed title, and I would suggest something like Category:Caribbean Community topics or the like as a parent category. I would also rename Category:CARICOM members to Category:Caribbean Community members. Category:Diplomats of the United States in the Caribbean is another issues in that includes articles about US Ambassadors to CARICOM nations, but they are also in this parent category, and that it probably doesn't belong here per CaribDigita. This category needs to have a whole bunch of articles that are not Category:Caribbean Community-specific moved out of here. Alansohn (talk) 22:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment:There are some bodies that are currently in the category CARICOM which are actual CARICOM bodies.... These are a list of actual organisations that are a part of CARICOM. (Sorry for using the Google Cache version here but their site is currently down at the time of writing this here.) P.S. you may need to scroll down a little bit. CaribDigita (talk) 05:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - I too had misgivings about this proposal when I saw it earlier today. As CaribDigita says, it sounds too generic. I wasn't aware of the previous history (as outlined below), but I'm not surprised. It's true that in the great majority of cases we prefer the expanded form, especially in category names -- but there are exceptions. For instance I would strongly oppose renaming Category:UNESCO to, because it's universally known as UNESCO -- whereas a lot of people would probably say, "Huh??" if they encountered the full name. CARICOM probably falls somewhere in between -- it's fairly well known, but certainly not on a par with UNESCO. So if no better alternative is suggested, I may well support the slightly unorthodox name proposed below by CaribDigita. Cgingold (talk) 00:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Is Category:Caribbean Community (organization) the way to go? It is the only alternative that is clearly not "generic", and the acronym is unacceptrable, I think. Johnbod (talk) 20:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Caribbean Community (organization) per Johnbod, or possibly Category:Caribbean Community (CARICOM) if it helps for consensus. Either is a fine compromise. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Caribbean Community (organization) per Johnbod. Vegaswikian1 (talk) 05:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Category:Caribbean Community (CARICOM)

 * Propose different renameCategory:CARICOM to Category:Caribbean Community (CARICOM)
 * Nominator's rationale: We've been down this road already. "Caribbean Community" becomes a repository for unrelated stuff like how someone just threw United States relations in there.. Which has NOTHING to do with CARICOM.  CARICOM is an organisation.  "US relations etc. belongs in Category:Caribbean" or Foreign relations in the Caribbean or something else.  It has nothing to do with the organisation... Caribbean Community sounds too much like a repository for everything Caribbean related....  However anything in there should have something to do with the organisation.  "Category:Caribbean Community (CARICOM)" would much better in keeping the category on topic so it doesn't have the same problem as before when it was named "Caribbean Community" I think... CaribDigita (talk) 22:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. If you want to take that road, then rename the main article.  Caribbean Community is likely ambiguous especially if you misread it as Caribbean community. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't split the discussion please! Johnbod (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Early scientific cosmologies

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * early scientific cosmologies


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete Ambiguous category. We have categories for cosmology, categories for scientific cosmology (that is, physical cosmology). The point of having this category does not seem apparent. All of these subjects are either a part of cosmology in general or physical cosmology. The commonalities between the articles is almost impossible to see. ScienceApologist (talk) 12:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep They may not make sense in the normal scientific classifications, but are very important for the History of science. Hope that helps (the category name should have been a bit of a clue really). Johnbod (talk) 13:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep It seems so blindingly obvious to us that the Earth and other planets revolve around the Sun, but until the Copernican Revolution, this was how even the brightest minds among the ancients perceived it. This category usefully organizes variations of these cosmologies into a common category defined by these pre-Copernican imaginings. Alansohn (talk) 15:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Both per Johnbod & Alansohn -- I think they've covered it. Why the nominator would want to eradicate a vitally important category like this is beyond me. Cgingold (talk) 16:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep: as per keeps above. Perhaps a rename if really necessary to Category:Pre Copernican revolution cosmologies - the scientific bit in he current name does not reflect an important number of the current contents.  Should have some defining text as per above on the category page. Peet Ern (talk) 10:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Another thought, rename to Category:Early cosmologies? Peet Ern (talk) 10:06, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But Phaeton (hypothetical planet) and Tychonic system & maybe more are not "Pre-Copernican" at all. Johnbod (talk) 20:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep per above. The category may be "ambiguous" but I think we can all say that anything pre-copernican is something "early". Maybe renaming it as Category:Early cosmologies as suggested by Peet Ern is also appropriate.Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The "scientific" is there to distinguish them from mythological ones etc. See the tree. I disagree with Peet Ern that "many" of these are not scientific, though obviously very early. Johnbod (talk) 12:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient mysteries

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  While there is some desire to see this split, there is no direction in what to split to (or to how many).  If I were to guess, I would say, based upon Alan's comment and already existing categories, Category:Archaeological artefacts and Category:Mythological places and possibly even Category:Mythological objects (and who knows what else, if any).  Problem with that is none of those deal with "mysteries", and further, upon examination of several of the articles, they are already categorized as artifacts or mythological.  If someone wants to be bold and recategorize the articles to these or to other new categories, I can provide a list of articles. Kbdank71 18:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ancient mysteries


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete Clearly a POV designation. Mysteries to whom? To those who believe in Unsolved Mysteries type conspiracy theories about the ancient world. It's pseudohistory, fringe-theory pandering. ScienceApologist (talk) 12:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Something of a ragbag, but many of these are actual objects which are indeed mysterious to scholars, like the Phaistos disk. The nominator has not really adressed the actual contents of the category, and so made a case for deletion, though I expect one could be made (or for renaming, or tightening the scope). Johnbod (talk) 13:20, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment This category as it stands includes at least two distinct groupings of articles: Ancient artifacts that exist today (or are definitively known to have existed) but whose purpose is uncertain, such as the Antikythera mechanism, the Voynich manuscript or the abovementioned Phaistos Disc. It also includes places and things that are almost certainly mythological, such as Atlantis or the Holy Grail, which refer to conceptual locations and objects that may well not exist. If this category is to serve any useful purpose it would have to be split in at least two categories, and there are probably other groupings mixed in as well. Alansohn (talk) 15:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename and split: as per comment by Alansohn Peet Ern (talk) 09:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I find it appropriate for such a category to exist. We also have Category:Forteana which is a parent to this category, and it seems neither pandering to superstition nor to conspiracy theorizing to categorize the many known unexplained subjects of ancient origin. I don't understand why labeling something unexplained and puzzling a mystery is claimed to be POV. __meco (talk) 10:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions.  __meco (talk) 10:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename/Split per Alansohn - his suggestion above seems the most sensible, given that this category includes both real objects and those that are clearly mythical. The current name doesn't seem entirely neutral, but I've no idea what appropriate names for these categories would be... Category:Things Indiana Jones has searched for, perhaps? :) Terraxos (talk) 23:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. There's no chance to reach contents what should be included in such category. Pavel Vozenilek (talk) 18:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Heterogenous contents of the category show that it is too vague to be useful. What do Camelot, the Ark of the Covenant, astrology, and the "starchild" skull have to do with each other? Only that they are from various time periods in the past and considered "mysterious" by some. Other existing categories (such as ones relating to mythologies and pseudosciences) are more clearly defined in much more useful ways. --Icarus (Hi!) 23:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-printed electronics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep, only because rationale wasn't fully explained. Feel free to re-nominate. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * non-printed electronics


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete OCAT, and not currently populated with most of the content necessary if it were used. 70.55.84.27 (talk) 08:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Question - why exactly is this overcategorization? Otto4711 (talk) 22:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comments - This does seem to be something that could use explaining in an article somewhere. Does such an article exist? I'm looking at the two current members of the category, and I only see tangental reference to "non-printed electronics" (though I may indeed have missed it). Further information welcome. - jc37 15:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Trios

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename both. Category:Sibling trios may contain non-musical trios, but since the hatnote claims that the category is specifically for musical trios, they should be removed. Kbdank71 18:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Trios to Category:Musical trios
 * Propose renaming Category:Sibling trios to Category:Sibling musical trios
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Per several recent CFDs, rename and restrict to those musical groups that are specifically known as trios. As for the sibling trios subcat, the question is whether being a sibling group would qualify as a defined subcat under the broader concept of "musical trios". If so, rename. If not, delete. Noting that we do have Category:Family musical groups and we could merge the sibling groups there as well. Otto4711 (talk) 03:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Not all of the sibling trios listed are musical ones. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 13:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename "Trios" per nom. Keep Sibling trios as there are non-musical trios in this category, and as per the deletion of Category:Musical groups with siblings, there is nothing particularly notable about a sibling musical group. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 16:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * While you seem to be correct that Category:Musical groups with siblings was listified/deleted per this cfd, it's apparently been recreated. - jc37 18:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename both per nom. If there are entries which do not match the introduction's inclusion criteria (Trio (music)), then they should be pruned. - jc37 18:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scratchcard

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: oy vey. There's not really a consensus for any specific action here, except maybe that a rename should occur now that the category is populated. For now, I'll rename to the relatively non-controversial Category:Scratchcard games, but please—future pruning and/or nominations for renaming to work this category tree out are more than encouraged. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * scratchcard


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete With only one entry and it being unlikely to have more, this to be seems like overcategorization. Midwest Millions can be upmerged to Loteries and this deleted. Wizardman  01:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Why unlikely to have more? In fact there is Category:Lottery card games, but this in fact seems not about "lotteries" in the normal sense, & probably needs renaming. That has at least one other scratchcard article & I expect there are more. Johnbod (talk) 10:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Now 3 articles anyway. Johnbod (talk) 12:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to Category:Lottery card games. I'm not convinced that we need to break out this small subset of articles at this time.  If kept, Rename to Category:Scratchcard lottery games as the current name is ambiguous. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But that category is defined as "Articles about faro-like card games where the winner is determined by the random luck appearance of different cards." - which I don't think should be in category:Lotteries at all, & should probably be renamed. Certainly the scratchcards should not be mixed in there. Johnbod (talk) 07:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Missed that since I was working from what appeared to be an unambiguous category name. Does faro have anything to do with lotteries?  If not, then I'd say as part of the upmerge, we clean out the parent.  Or we could do that today if no one raises an objection. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well they are games played with packs of normal cards where you win by getting dealt the right card(s) - but "lottery", though possibly technically correct, is certainly misleading here. I can't think of a better name for these. Johnbod (talk) 19:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe UpmergeCategory:Lottery card games to Category:Card games and Rename Category:Scratchcard to Category:Lottery card games? Vegaswikian (talk) 08:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Scratchcard games, and subcat directly under Category:Lotteries. While scratchcards are cards, they are not playing cards. And so it follows that scratchcard games are therefore not card games. - jc37 15:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Peter MacCallum Cancer Institute

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Speedy close: CFD is the wrong forum for proposals dealing with articles. Non-admin close. Cgingold (talk) 04:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:Peter MacCallum Cancer Institute to Category:Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre
 * Nominator's rationale: Peter MacCallum Cancer Institute has been officially renamed to Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre. Please rename article. PMCI eastmelbourne (talk) 00:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Speedy close - as neither category exists. This is a proposal to merge two articles, which has already been proposed at the articles themselves. Otto4711 (talk) 02:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.