Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 December 23



Category:Rosie Rushton

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rosie Rushton to Category:Novels by Rosie Rushton
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename per convention of . At present this is an eponymous category, which is deprecated by WP:OC, but apart from the author Rosie Rushton, this a category of her novels. If renamed, the author herself should be removed from the category.  -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename, and it could likely be moved as a sub-category of "British novels by author" in the process. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. It is already correctly categorised in .  The only other change needed is to redesignate the articel on the author as the "main article".  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:54, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Primrose International Viola Competition prize-winners

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * primrose international viola competition prize-winners


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:OC; there is already a list at Primrose International Viola Competition. It's currently uncategorised, so if kept it needs parent categories.  -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep: It does help to locate winners of the prize. I think that both the list and the category are useful.--Karljoos (talk) 00:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete --Lists do a much better job for awards categories than lists. I would say "delete and listfy" if the list did not already exist.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Categories and lists are complementary, and there is no reason not to have both, and none is given.   DGG ( talk )
 * Reply You may not agree with the reason, but I did give one. The rationale stated in the nomination is "per WP:OC", which reads "People can and do receive awards and/or honors throughout their lives. In general (though there are a few exceptions to this), recipients of an award should be grouped in a list rather than a category. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Overcategorization. We make exceptions to this rule for the most prominent and prestigious awards (see e.g., Category:Nobel laureates), but that does not change the fact that lists are generally significantly superior as a method of organising information about awards and award winners. –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 08:20, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedily delete per B LACK F ALCON, opposition notwithstanding. Debresser (talk) 00:57, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * While I'm fine with deleting this, how can this possibly be a speedy? It's not empty, so C1 is a non-starter, and it's not up for re-naming, so neither is C2.  None of the general criteria seem to fit, either.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 05:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Passenger trains in Alaska

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Passenger trains in Alaska to Category:Passenger trains of the Alaska Railroad
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Category:Named passenger trains of the United States has subcategories by railway and not state. I think we want to avoid grouping these by state since many named trains operate in multiple states and the by railway categories are a better way to group these.  Vegaswikian (talk) 22:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:16, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. In this case, all the trains are intra-state (And if they were not, they'd be international before becoming interstate), but the convention should be followed.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:19, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Places associated with the Burke and Wills expedition

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: listify to List of places associated with the Burke and Wills expedition; without prejudice to someone creating Category:Burke and Wills expedition and populating it appropriately. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Convert to article Category:Places associated with the Burke and Wills expedition to article List of places associated with the Burke and Wills expedition
 * Nominator's rationale: Listify. It's already a list, and just needs to be moved into article-space. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * What's this even doing in the Category namespace? It's nothing like a category at all!  In fact, I could easily believe it was intended to be created as a list in the first place.  Listify it.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Split: Articlise the list as nom; Rename category to Category:Burke and Wills expedition, which is a significant enough event in Austrialian history to need a category. Possibly, add the new category to all the articles in the (new) list.  I suspect this is a case of a new user failing to understand how to add articles to categories correctly.  I do not think there is enough content to warrant a separate category for places from the expedition generally.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:48, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Partial support. I think that the idea of a Category:Burke and Wills expedition is a good one, but I'd be wary of adding that category to all the articles in the list. I'm not sure that it would be a defining characteristic of all these places, and more importantly it would overwhelm the category with geographical articles, undermining its usefulness as a device for navigating between the key articles on the expedition. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Listify and rename per Peterkingiron; no need to list the places unless their identity is primarily connected to the expedition; compare at Category:Lewis and Clark Expedition.- choster (talk) 00:52, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining. Debresser (talk) 00:56, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia images by quality

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge, without prejudice to re-creation if there are ever many more sub-categories which could be added to it. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:51, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggest merging Category:Wikipedia images by quality to Category:Wikipedia images
 * Nominator's rationale: There are only two quality classes for images, "valued" and "featured"—both of which already appear in Category:Wikipedia images directly—so this category cannot have more than two members for the forseeable future. "Selected" is a designation for images used by portals, but it is not an assessment of quality so much as of relevance and significance to the subject of the portal. (Category creator notified using cfd-notify.) –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 05:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This definitely feels like a "don't we have bigger fish to fry?" issue, but I'm not opposed to the merge.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 20:32, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep but remove the parent category per Cat (just like Category:Architecture Selected pictures doesn't have it, which is also in Category:Wikipedia images by quality, albeit unnoticed by the nominator), and add Category:Wikipedia valued pictures to Category:Wikipedia images by quality as well. That would be more logical. Debresser (talk) 22:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I did notice the selected pictures category, but it doesn't belong in this category since "selected pictures" is not an image quality class. That a picture is a "selected picture" just means that an editor decided to use it in a portal because it was relevant or significant to the subject of the portal; it is not an assessment of the image's quality. In the end, the category could house only the two categories for valued and featured pictures. –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 22:34, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Then just remove Category:Architecture Selected pictures from here. But the argument remains valid, IMHO. Debresser (talk) 13:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I still support merging, but for now I've removed the selected pictures category and added the valued pictures one. Cheers, –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 17:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Then at this point I'd say keep, but remove parent category per Cat. Debresser (talk) 16:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 10:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 21:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Upmerge per nom. No need for this two entry category.  The parent is not over populated. Vegaswikian (talk) 09:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

IPFW athletics categories

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep both. Consensus is clearly in favor of avoiding acronyms. —  ξ xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne Mastodons to Category:IPFW Mastodons
 * Category:Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne Mastodons men's basketball to Category:IPFW Mastodons men's basketball
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. The school brands itself as "IPFW" for athletics purposes; see its official site at gomastodons.com. Also, ESPN (and presumably other sports media) use "IPFW" instead of the full school name. Dale Arnett (talk) 02:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename per convention of Category:College athletic programs by college.- choster 05:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What convention are you talking about? I see only 1-2 abbreviations among the 200 on the first page, and it is they who should be renamed, as I explained in my vote here below. Debresser (talk) 20:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ??? Almost every single category is abbreviated.- choster 05:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose per guideline of not using abbreviations in category names. Note that this guideline is not some obstruse and theoretical mindbog of some editor, but is being used in Cfd discussions every few days. Debresser (talk) 20:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that category isn't quite as clean as I thought, but it is absolutely longstanding convention to use Institution short name + Institution team nickname for collegiate sports. I'm quite familiar with the general proscription on abbreviations, but it is not the sole governing guideline. WP:COMMONNAME also applies here, and the full name of the institution is essentially never the primary form used either in reliable sources or in everyday speech; pick your college sports authority (ncaa.com, nytimes.com, espn.com, cbscollegesports.com, etc.) and see how often "UCLA Bruins" turns up as opposed to the "University of California, Los Angeles Bruins." This is, in fact, true of all sports, and requiring the maximum level of disambiguation would be an unwelcome innovation— there is really no confusing Category:Florida A&M Rattlers for anything else, just as we can use Category:Boston Red Sox not Category:Boston, Massachusetts Red Sox and Category:Hanshin Tigers not Hanshin Electric Railway Tigers.- choster 22:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Coomment There are 233 sub-categories of Category:College athletic programs by college. I count 20 of them using an abbreviation in the names, which is 8.6%. That doesn't sound to me like a convention, and in any case the convention against using abbreviations in category names still stands. Wikipedia is written for a general audience, not for the narrow subset who follow a particular sport intensively enough to recognise all the abbreviations.  -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Are we looking at the same category? Fifteen of the nineteen teams under "A" alone use the team name. Again, we are not willy-nilly assigning abbreviations, but using the team name. It's not the UND Fighting Irish, it's the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. Why suddenly the need to expand this to University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish?
 * One shouldn't think of major U.S. college sports programs in the same way as a university faculty or research program. The major programs are, for good or ill, institutions in and of themselves, covered widely in mass media, and attracting many millions of fans with no ties whatsoever to the institution— in this respect, they no doubt differ from university sports in most of the world. But it also means that the team name will be by far the most common name found in reliable sources, and the name by which most people who would be interested in the topic would look for them by. Again, the team known as the "Fresno State Bulldogs" would essentially never be cited as the "California State University, Fresno Bulldogs," just as the proper name for the newspaper is The Stanford Daily not The Stanford University Daily (or The Stanford (University) Daily).- choster 23:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment If the rename goes ahead, the full name of the college should be given in a capnote on the category. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:33, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 21:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * String oppose - We have been renaming categories from abreviated names, not to them. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope you aren't tied up. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose IPFW? Really?  I follow college sports fairly closely, and that acronym meant nothing to me.  Yes, it's Notre Dame Fighting Irish- UND is normally used to refer to the University of North Dakota; but that is a strawman at any rate as no one has proposed renaming a category to "University of Norte Dame Fighting Irish".  Categories do not need 'alphabet soup' introduced to them. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:36, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Because you've never heard of it" is never a valid argument at WP. My point is that we should use what the university uses, because that is what reliable sources use.- choster (talk) 00:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "I've never heard of it" is a horrid reason to delete anything. I'm not advocating deleting this- no one is.  We avoid acronyms in categories because they are ambigous, and they don't make obvious sense.  Here's all my comment meant; "I've been following U.S. college sports for over two decades, I've heard of this school multiple times, and IPFW didn't mean anything to me."  Besides, on a consistent basis, we have been expanding acronyms in categories, even those used far more widely than this one. See this discussion where we expanded an acronym despite the acronym being fairly clear, and definately in more common usage than the full-version. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose Abbreviations are meaningless to the non-cogniscenti. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:41, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By that logic, there can be no abbrevations whatsoever. This is indistinguishable from the countless categories with "A.F.C." in their names— we permit it because it is part of the organization's official name, and because the contents of the category are unlikely to be mistaken for anything else.- choster (talk) 00:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I dislike the "A.F.C." and "F.C." abbreviations, but they do at least hav the merit of being used in squillions of articles and categories, and thereby becoming familiar to the reader. However, IPFW is rare enough in article and category names that anyone encountering it will be puzzled unless they are already familiar with the topic. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename. User:Dale Arnett and I created the college athletics team naming structure years ago, with the intent that teams be listed by the names they're known by. This means that nearly every school name is abbreviated or shortened in some way. In this case, the team is definitely named the "IPFW Mastodons"; see the school's official athletics page, where the full name of the school is never mentioned (also see that it is "© IPFW"). That said, this has alerted me to some discrepancies in the naming conventions of Category:College athletic programs by college, and have attempted to address them in this umbrella nomination.—Mike Selinker (talk) 17:08, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not only does IPFW refer to its teams strictly by the initialism, but also:
 * The Summit League, IPFW's main athletic conference.
 * The Midwestern Intercollegiate Volleyball Association, IPFW's conference in men's volleyball.
 * ESPN — see the network's men's and women's basketball standings pages and IPFW men's and women's team pages.
 * Sports Illustrated/CNN — see, e.g., SI's Summit League men's basketball standings and IPFW men's basketball team page — Dale Arnett (talk) 07:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Those refs are all well and good, but wikipedia is written for a general audience, not for specialists who follow a particular topic in sufficient detail to be familiar with such abbreviations. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * WP may be written for a general audience, but most of the people who are interested in college athletics will be used to seeing short versions of school names, even if they may not be familiar with a specific school. I feel so strongly about the use of short names that if there's ever an umbrella nom for changing to full school names, I'd vote to delete the entire college athletics category structure. — Dale Arnett (talk) 05:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC) Clarification: I meant that I'd rather see no college athletics categories at all than see a wholesale change to full school names. — Dale Arnett (talk) 05:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a huge difference between using acronyms and using full names. I'll pick on my alma mater- we have Category:Alabama Crimson Tide, and no one has advanced using Category:The University of Alabama (Tuscaloosa) Crimson Tide! That would be patently ridiculous.  That said, so would Category: UA Crimson Tide.  We have ample precedent against using acronyms in categories.  Furthermore, there are three options here; using an acronym, using a common, but non-acronym name, and using the full and formal name of the institution.  You seem to be equating the first and the second possibilities.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:50, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I said this before here, but question marks of wonder indicate I didn't make my argument clear. Category:College men's basketball teams in the United States contains almost no other categories with abbreviations, so we surely should apply the general guideline to avoid abbreviations. Debresser (talk) 00:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'm not convinced that dropping the school name in favor of an abbreviation is a good thing.  While it makes for a shorter name, it does not help the average reader and is ambiguous unless you now something in advance.  So this would appear to be a poor choice for the category name.  I would suggest that we consider renaming some of the other school categories that have abbreviations.  Some, like UCLA, are well enough know that maybe they can stay, but I'm not sure that the majorly are well enough known to justify an exception. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:32, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:87th Precinct novels

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:87th Precinct novels to Category:Novels by Ed McBain
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename, per convention of Category:Novels by author. (This category refers to the 87th Precinct series of novels written by Ed McBain.) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename per convention, and in light of his extensive list of work outside this series that someone could write articles about. It may be useful to contain this category as a sub-category of Novels by Ed McBain, but that's a moot point until quite a few more articles get written. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Reply No objection to creating a new Category:87th Precinct novels at some point in the future, if and when there are enough articles on Ed McBain's work to require a category. As the Bibliography of Evan Hunter shows, he was an astonishingly prolific author, although I don't know either way how many of his works would be notable per Notability (books). -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename This series is not yet numerous and notable enough to distinguish it from other works by this author (so far either non-existent or non-categorised as such). Debresser (talk) 00:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Simpsons Christmas episodes

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * the simpsons christmas episodes


 * Nominator's rationale: A similar template was deleted 2 years ago at Christmas time. Some of these episodes have little to do with Christmas. Skinner's Sense of Snow is about a snow day before Christmas break, not actually Christmas. Kill Gil, Volumes I & II has Christmas in the beginning of the episode, but goes through the course of a year during the episode. She of Little Faith is only very partially about Christmas, most of it being around Lisa being a Buddhist. There really isn't a point to have this category.  C T J F 8 3  chat 20:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Unnecessary category for a non-distinct and unrelated series of episodes. In case anyone brings it up, there is a category for the Halloween episodes, but unlike the Christmas episodes, they are a defined and distinct series of episodes that are promoted differently than other episdoes. -- Scorpion <sup style="color:black;">0422  20:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Scorpion, am I being dense? I see a list of the Treehouse of Horror episodes, but I don't even see a specific category for them, all the ones I've spot-checked are only categorized by their respective seasons.  In fact, I think THAT category might ought to exist, but this category is undefined and unnecessary.  Delete it.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:43, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you are correct, my mistake. I mixed the category up with the list. There used to be a category for treehouse of horror episodes, but it was deleted. My point is that you can't compare the two. -- Scorpion <sup style="color:black;">0422  19:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Ridiculous idea. Soon we shall need a passover category as well? Debresser (talk) 00:50, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Archaeological sites in Israeli occupied territories
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete.  Vegaswikian (talk) 19:29, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Archaeological sites in Israeli occupied territories to Category:UNKNOWN
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename to something better and add parent categories, or Delete. Israeli occupied territories is an article, but there does not appear to be a overall category for the occupied teritories. I know that the terminology is highly disputed, so I will notify WP:ISRAEL and WP:PALESTINE. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - These areas are archeological sites that are not in Israel but only occupied by Israel.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Reply I understand the definition, but because there appears to be no general category for the occupied territories, there is nowhere to place this category in the category tree. I presume that's why you added no parent categories when you created it. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * delete. Why would we even want to group archaeological sites in the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan Heights all together? This is mixing non-political archaeology with contentious political pseudo-boundaries, which doesn't make much sense. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Make this into three separate categories- except for the politics there is little connecting these three regions. I agree with Good Olfactory that this category is undesirable, and I think it's ripe for NPOV.  The only neutral solution besides delete is to make each region its own category, and re-evaluate as the peace process proceeds.  Of course, this has issues with WP:OC, but I'd rather break that rule than NPOV.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:53, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment, if rename then maybe two category's: "Archaeological sites in the Golan Heights" and "Archaeological sites in the West Bank" --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:52, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Distribute contents and delete -- we already have Category:Archaeological sites on the Golan Heights, Category:Archaeological sites in the West Bank and Category:Archaeological sites in the Gaza Strip. If retained, this category should be a parent only category for these, but historically, they have no coherence, distinct from Israel/Palestine as a whole.  The three existing categories adequately cover the content without the need for an internvening level of categorisation.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. There's no reason to group these areas from an archaeological standpoint. They are only connected due to modern politcal events, and rather arbitrarily at that, and per Peterkingiron above, categories exist for each area already. -- Chefallen (talk) 00:47, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per previous two editors. Compare also Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_December_22. Debresser (talk) 00:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Good Ol’factory and Peterkingiron. -- nsaum75 ¡שיחת! 16:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Beijing Zoo
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * beijing zoo


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:OC. Category contains only two articles (Beijing Zoo & Beijing Zoo Station), both of which are already interlinked, and I don't see any sign of other articles to add to the category. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete, there's nothing else to add here, and there's no potential for growth. Nice zoo, but unnecessary category. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:54, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. Debresser (talk) 00:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Cold War survivors
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cold War survivors to Category:Wikipedian Cold War survivors
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename to clarify that it is a user category. Alternatively, delete as trivia irrelevant to collaboration amongst editors, since every person on earth over the age of 20 survived the Cold War. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:02, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep and rename. When I created that category, I didn't know much about Wikipedia. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 23:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Overcategorization/User categories as a vaguely-defined category that groups users on the basis of a characteristic shared by most Wikipedia users or humans more generally. The reason I say that the category is vaguely-defined is that it is not clear what it means to be a "Cold War survivor" in light of the fact that the Cold War was, not surprisingly, a cold war. –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 00:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Anyone that remembers the fall of the Berlin Wall, or, I'd go farther, anyone that was alive when Lithuania declared independence survived the Cold War.  That's 90% of us that are old enough to use a computer- so about as useful as categorizing Wikipedians by species ;) Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You think I'm human? ;) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:48, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming good faith, my fair lady. Though your ability to comment on nearly every discussion here is almost bot-like ;) Bradjamesbrown (talk) 19:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator/Bradjamesbrown. Debresser (talk) 00:42, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Digital subchannels
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * digital subchannels


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. I dunno how a "digital subchannel" differs from any other digital TV channel, but unless there is some crucial distinction I am unaware of, the category is pointless. If kept, it needs parent categories -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as this is just another channel available through digital TV, now the U.S. standard. Alansohn (talk) 20:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete as there is a whopping ONE page in the category. BrownHairedGirl, here in Columbia, the real station broadcasts on say channel 10; then puts a radar or extra programming on 10.1, and then a looping weather report on 10.2, with channel 10.3 just existing.  None of them are notable beyond a mention in the WIS article (And I notice 10.3 doesn't even merit that). Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:06, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Fellows of the International Society for Computational Biology
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. —  ξ <sup style="color:#000000;">xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * fellows of the international society for computational biology


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:OCAT. I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of a practice of categorising academics by their membership of academic societies. There is no or, so it may be appropriate to keep this category and rename it.  Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:20, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment -- Some academic societies give out their fellowships only selectively, e.g. Royal Society, Royal Historical Society, Society of Antiquaries. In those cases, being a fellow is a clear sign of notability.  Do not know about this case.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep -- This is definitely a case of selective fellowships. These fellowships are a high honor, not something available merely via paid membership. (Disclaimer: I am the category creator.) Quantling (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. We certainly have several categories for fellowships or membership of societies where this is a great honour. This is recent, but seems to be a great honour, so it should be kept. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  08:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. A google scholar search would seem to point towards the society itself being notable (although I didn't look at this part in great detail). Assuming that it is, I don't really see any reason not to have a category for their honorees.  There seems to be a published document of who and who is not a fellow (at least at ; don't know if it is also in one of their journals), which should address practical considerations of whether such a category has some hope of being accurate. Kingdon (talk) 20:38, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. There is clearly a consensus here to keep, and I almost withdrew the nomination. However, it seems to me to be more useful for the debate to be closed as a "keep" rather than as "withdrawn", to leave a clear summary for the future of the thrust of the discussion, so I am leaving it open merely to allow that clear outcome. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Essays supporting editor endurance
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ <sup style="color:#000000;">xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Essays supporting editor endurance to Category:Wikipedia essays supporting editor endurance
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Per convention of Category:Wikipedia essays. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:13, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Rename to better clarify the content of the category. Alansohn (talk) 19:59, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Support as creator. Note, my intention is to attempt to subcategorise all of Category:Wikipedia essays, comment at Category_talk:Wikipedia_essays would be welcome.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename Apllying naming guidelines may be done speedily, in my opinion. Debresser (talk) 00:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably agree.
 * Would it be possible to have "naming guidelines" (link?) added to the text on the category creation boilerplate? I remain surprised at how easy it is to blithely create any category page, and what a hassle it is to do anything about it afterwards.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Florida Marlins pages needing attention
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete (merging to Category:Baseball articles needing attention). Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:09, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * florida marlins pages needing attention


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. there doesn't appear to be a Florida Marlins wikiproject which could use this unparented category, and in any case the category has been applied to articles themselves rather than to their talk pages, which is where maintenance categories should go. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You are right. On the other hand, I see here an initiative of an editor trying to actively improve articles. Perhaps keep this to that end? Debresser (talk) 00:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:Baseball articles needing attention and move the designation to the article talk page. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Gothic Revival buildings in Idaho
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 * The result of the discussion was: Keep- nomination withdrawn; non-admin closure. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * gothic revival buildings in idaho


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:OC (limited scope for expansion) . If kept, it needs parent categories. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination withdrawn. I was not aware that it was part of a wider category scheme, but as such it's a clear keep. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:16, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. The contents of Category:Gothic Revival architecture in the United States are otherwise divided by state, so this is part of a scheme.  No judgment at this time as to whether subdivision by state is a good idea, though the state subcategories of Category:Carpenter Gothic architecture in the United States are definitely more questionable.  postdlf (talk) 15:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep I think in the long run, we will have enough examples in enough states to justify keeping the whole scheme, although not every architectural style would justify a state-by-state breakdown. I would favor renaming all such "Foo buildings in Bar" categories to "Foo architecture in Bar," as sometimes only an element of a building or non-building structures exhibit aspects of a style (e.g. Tower Bridge as Gothic Revival; Metro Center as Brutalist; Hunt's Tomb as Egyptian Revival) can exemplify a style, but that can wait for a later discussion.- choster (talk) 19:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as part of an overall structure organized by state for this defining characteristic. This is not the only Gothic Revival structure in the state and there is no reason to believe that this is the only article. Alansohn (talk) 19:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Greek philosophy
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * greek philosophy


 * Nominator's rationale: Single-article category with no parents until I added two. The page had been blanked, but not by the editor who created it, so doesn't qualify as a speedy. I have no preferences for what do with this, but if kept it should be populated.  I will notify WP:PHILO. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The one article belonged in the well-populated Category:Classical Greek philosophy. Greek philosophy just redirects to Ancient Greek philosophy, the parent article of Category:Classical Greek philosophy notwithstanding the different name.  I smell another CFR on the horizon.  postdlf (talk) 15:26, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely there have been non-Classical Greek philosophers. &mdash; goethean &#2384; 16:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a different question than whether there is such a thing as non-Classical Greek philosophy. The fact that title is just a redirect to Ancient Greek philosophy (and that this category is empty) suggests not.  postdlf (talk) 20:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * And now no articles either. I doubt that there would have been many medieval Greek philosphers: they would probably have been theologians.  There may be the odd modern one.  Delete for now without prejudice to re-creation if required.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Historic Buildings (St. Marys, Georgia)
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * historic buildings (st. marys, georgia)


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. AFAICS from looking at, we don't do genralised "historic buildings" categories (ISTR some CFDs on this subject two or three years ago, but I am not sure). The only article in the category is Orange Hall (St. Marys, Georgia), which already seems to be adequately categorised. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete To avoid subjectivity, we use designations and classifications of authoritative third parties (e.g. Category:Railway stations on the National Register of Historic Places in Missouri or Category:Grade I listed buildings in Somerset), and the sole article is already in its appropriate NRHP and geographic categories.- choster (talk) 18:41, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * delete per nominator's reasons. We categorize by official historical registers and such, but not by subjective assessments of historicity. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. One can only imagine a category for historic buildings of every small town- and St. Mary's is small.  It would colapse under its own weight.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 10:31, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, buildings should be categorized by heritage register, not by subjective notions of being "historic". --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 09:01, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Hanno R. Ellenbogen Citizenship Award recipients
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * hanno r. ellenbogen citizenship award recipients


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Per WP:OCAT, "people can and do receive awards and/or honors throughout their lives. In general (though there are a few exceptions to this), recipients of an award should be grouped in a list rather than a category". The list already exists at Hanno R. Ellenbogen Citizenship Award. Please note that this category has no parent categories, and some will needs to be added if it is kept.  Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Lists work much better for awards. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:56, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy This "listify award categories" argument has been so extensively used, that I wouldn't mind a speedy for this nomination. Debresser (talk) 00:38, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Ina Installment films
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ina installment films


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Uncategorised category with no category text, containing one article Ang Cute Ng Ina Mo, which gives no clue what "Ina Installment" is. A wikipedia search for "Ina Installment" only returns this category, so it seems pointless to me. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Just spotted that the category page was blanked by creator. Is that grounds for speedy deletion, even tho it's not empty? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're the admin but I'd just let this play out now. G7 says "If the sole author blanks a page other than a userspace page or category page, this can be taken as a deletion request."; and neither C1 or C2 applies. Anyways, someone might wander along that knows what on Earth an 'Ina Installment' is, but that person is not me.  No parent article to define the term, nothing on Google that is enlightening, I'd tentatively in the side of deleting this, but am open to someone educating me about Phillipine cinema. (signing late; I wrote this and forgot, sinebot didn't get it) Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. I would not oppose a speedy in this case, per Brown HairedGirl. The problem is to find a sufficiently bold editor. Debresser (talk) 00:36, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Brazilian right-wing associations
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:11, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * brazilian right-wing associations


 * left-wing organisations of brazil


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete, or Rename. Uncategorised categoryies whose content is a list, these two at least needs a cleanup, but I'm not familiar enough with subject matter to know what to do with it. I am very wary of using the category system to label things as "right-wing" or "left-wing", because the application and perception of those terms is subjective. Per WP:OC we don't do subjective categories, so this one should either be deleted or recast to categorise the organisations by their field of activity. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:31, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Jeremy Bentham
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * jeremy bentham


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. This uncategorised category contains only one article, a draft in the userspace of the category creator. Per WP:OC, we do not usually create eponymous categories for people, except where the main article on the person has grown so large that it has been split into a series of sub-articles. Since that does not seem to be the case with Bentham, I see no reason to believe that this category has any particular utility. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:41, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. Debresser (talk) 00:34, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Even in mainspace, one article does not a category make. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Supreme Court opinions by justice and term
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 * The result of the discussion was: Rename per nominator. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:United States Supreme Court opinions by justice, 2005 to Category:Lists of 2005 term United States Supreme Court opinions
 * Propose renaming Category:United States Supreme Court opinions by justice, 2007 to Category:Lists of 2007 term United States Supreme Court opinions
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename to clarify contents, and recategorize under Category:Lists of United States Supreme Court opinions by term. These contain exclusively list articles organized by term of the U.S. Supreme Court (not by calendar year); terms run from the first Monday in October to the preceding day the following year, so just stating the year in the abstract is inaccurate.  Stating that these lists are also by justice is an unhelpful and awkward qualifier in the category name, particularly given that other term lists 2005 term opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States, 2005 term per curiam opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States exist that should be grouped with these.  The lists by justice are already subcategorized by justice (e.g., Category:Lists of United States Supreme Court opinions of Antonin Scalia).  I tried discussing these with their creator but have not gotten a response.  In the alternative, as all of these lists are already grouped together by term through templates, I would also not oppose deletion.  postdlf (talk) 10:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * rename per nom. We should specify these are lists. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


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Supreme Court cases by year
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 * The result of the discussion was: at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 January 11. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Suggest merging Category:2005 United States Supreme Court cases to Category:United States Supreme Court cases and Category:2005 in United States case law
 * Suggest merging Category:2006 United States Supreme Court cases to Category:United States Supreme Court cases and Category:2006 in United States case law
 * Suggest merging Category:2008 United States Supreme Court cases to Category:United States Supreme Court cases and Category:2008 in United States case law
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge, OCAT. Dividing the SCOTUS cases by year in this manner is a great detriment to navigation.  It is necessary to be able to browse all of these articles alphabetically because case law articles are often extremely variable in possible titles, due to the often complex names of litigants, and to all the different ways in which litigant names can get abbreviated or shortened.  Being forced to search through these by year as well as alphabetically is just not helpful, particularly given that well organized chronological lists exist, both by court term for the past decade and by case reporter volume for the entire history of the Court, and the fact that SCOTUS cases will be by far the bulk of entries in the U.S. case law by year categories.  So anyone who wants to search in that manner can.  postdlf (talk) 09:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Having spent a number of years working on issues where I needed to check a lot of UK law cases, I support the nominator's concern to ensure that cases are organised in a way which facilitates those who want to find a particular case. He is right that names of cases can be complex and variable; the order of parties can be reversed as one side appeals the other's victories to a higher court, and some of the parties can change their names (business merge or rebrand, people adopt a new name on marriage, parties can drop out or be joined to the case, etc). However currently contains  1,823 non-list articles, with a further 35 in these two categories. That's ten pages of category listing, which strikes me as being a hard-to-use-tool if someone is looking for a judgment by imprecise name (e.g. "I think someone named Snodgrass was one of the parties"). In that case, searching ten category pages for "Snodgrass" is a pain-in-the-neck; I'd prefer one long list. However, one long list covering 200 years of cases would be unfeasibly long, so I don;t think that works, so some form of subdivision seems preferable. That could be by year, by decade, or by Chief Justice; but I don't know enough on the subject to decide. So I think the best thing is to ask WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases for input, which should have been done by the nominator. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:58, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Neutral for now. In general I dislike the current tendency to chop up all categories chronologically, because it can be a serious impediment to navigation, so I was initially inclined to support this proposal for upmerger. But now I'm not sure.
 * Oops! I see that the nominator has already asked for input from WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases. Grovelling apologies for not checking properly. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:02, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think one of the goals in categorization should be to avoid forcing users to browse through too many different variables at once, and to instead give them multiple options by which to find articles or browse between related ones. The trick to that is different levels of generalization associated with each variable; here, case law by court only alphabetically, and case law by year only by country.  And we already have lists of SCOTUS case articles by term, by Court (defined by the presiding Chief Justice, e.g., "the Roberts Court"), and by reporter volume; lists are the best way to organize the same data in multiple, highly picky ways.  So my preference is to leave Category:United States Supreme Court cases undifferentiated chronologically.  Browsing through ten alphabetically organized pages for a particular case name is a lot easier than having to click in and out of multiple year-specific categories (particularly with Template:CatAZ aiding the alphabetical search).  But I'd consider subdividing by Court to be the lesser of the possible evils.  postdlf (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep There are thousands of articles for U.S. Supreme Court cases and thousands more to be created. There are multiple structures and means of navigation, and grouping such articles by the year the case was decided allows readers to navigate across similar articles and to aid in finding the information they are seeking. Alansohn (talk) 19:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep way to many Supreme Court cases. Makes it easier to find by year.--Levineps (talk) 03:39, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * merge per nom. The usual way to search for these is by name, not by year. This is an impediment, not a help. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:41, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Do it by court, Anyone who is looking for a specific case (aside: is likely using something besides Wikipedia.), will know the general time of the case, so divide them up by Chief Justice, and then put in brackets the years each category covers. This would produce 17 usable categories, instead of either 1 or 220 useless ones. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Any thoughts on how to name such subcategories concisely yet accurately? postdlf (talk) 13:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There are no duplicated surnames in the List of United States Chief Justices, so I suggest either "United States Supreme Court cases under surname" or "United States Supreme Court cases under Chief Justice surname". -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I'd prefer Category:United States Supreme Court cases of the Warren Court, etc. At any rate, people actually do study and compare these cases by Court, and it is likely that someone looking for a case article will know under what Chief Justice it was handed down.  So that makes sense and could be helpful.  By contrast, individual years are not a helpful way to navigate and sort, particularly given that the Court's calendar is organized by term (from October to October), not by calendar year.  The only time a specific year is really helpful is to distinguish between different opinions with the same case name and different opinions within the same case at different times.  So I'd support creating that structure and merging the years (here, all Roberts Court years) there.  But regardless, this discussion need more informed input for this from other SCOTUS project members; I think I'm the only one so far to participate here.  And I'd like to again urge that no more of these -by year categories be created while this CFD is pending.  postdlf (talk) 15:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree that Category:United States Supreme Court cases of the Warren Court, etc is a better wording than my proposal ... and agree even more than input from WP:SCOTUS members would greatly help improve the quality of any decision made here. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think by court term might be a little confusing with the court changes, I think by terms or by year is the best way to do it.--Levineps (talk) 18:39, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate? You said that by term both is and isn't the best way to do it.  Did you mean to say you thought by presiding Chief Justice would be confusing?  If so, why?  And why do you think by year is the best way?  postdlf (talk) 14:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Umm, like take the current court(by Supreme Court Chief Justice)- Souter/O'Connor are out while Sotomayer/Alito are in, so you did not have the same justices for each case. I think by year is the easiest since it's chronological, im not sure if theres a perfect system. There needs to be a better structure than the current system of just listing all the articles, when there is over 1000 articles.--Levineps (talk) 15:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Though, when discussing the SCOTUS, the associate justices involved aren't considered that important. Most people even passingly familiar with the court would know the term The Warren Court.  The current system is the most arbitrary of all, as the year a case is handed down is meaningless- the court matters; the author of the majority opinion matters; and the term matters.  (SCOTUS terms are not set to the calendar year.  They begin in October)  The author would be useless, as it would produce nearly as many categories as we have now, and would manage to make finding a specific opinion more difficult.  By court and by term, I think either is valid, though by court would be smaller, and I generally prefer fewer, somewhat larger categories when feasible. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:53, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Worst lists
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ <sup style="color:#000000;">xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Worst lists to Category:Lists of worsts
 * Nominator's rationale: As already remarked upon by a commenter on the category talk page, the naming of this category makes it sound like the articles included in it are the worst list articles we have, as opposed to being lists of "worst" items. Proposed name would also more closely match the parent Category:Lists of superlatives. RL0919 (talk) 04:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom for clarify the category's purpose. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Rename to more clearly reflect the content of the category. Alansohn (talk) 19:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename per nominator. Debresser (talk) 00:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Alumni by senior high school in Taiwan
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 * The result of the discussion was: Rename Category:Alumni by senior high school in Taiwan to Category:People by high school in Taiwan. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * alumni by senior high school in taiwan


 * Category:Affiliated Senior High School of National Taiwan Normal University alumni
 * Category:Cheng Kung Senior High School alumni
 * Nominator's rationale: no precedent for alumni by secondary school, and having such a tree would likely be WP:OC Mayumashu (talk) 04:31, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep or rename - this is part of Category:People by educational institution, cf Category:People by high school in the United States, which would suggest Category:People by high school in Taiwan. Occuli (talk) 10:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep or slightly rename -- We have Category:People by school in England, which is an alumni category for Englsih secondary schools, including public schools and high schools. I do not know how the Taiwanese education system works, but if they have "senior high schools" there is no reason why there should not be an alumni category for them.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Subcats / Rename Parent to reflect the standard used for categorization of such alumni worldwide. Alansohn (talk) 19:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Country covers
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * country covers


 * Nominator's rationale: Original research. Also, we don't categorize songs by what genre they were covered in, nor do we categorize cover songs at all since nearly every song has been covered at some point. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 04:30, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom; the category name is also ambiguous. A well-sourced list of songs from one genre later covered in another might be interesting, if in fact there are references discussing such things.  postdlf (talk) 10:35, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, and encourage someone who knows the subject to create that topic as a well-researched list. At the very least rename the category to something more along the lines of Cat:Songs covered by country music artists to avoid the ambiguity. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 21:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. The most convincing argument for me was "nor do we categorize cover songs at all". We do not cover covers. Debresser (talk) 00:31, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Palo Alto High School alumni
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 * The result of the discussion was: No consensus to delete. Precedent has been shown to exist. Deleting this while keeping everything else under Category:People by high school in the United States would make no sense, and deleting everything is not in the scope of this nomination. No prejudice against nominating the parent category with its children to get consensus on the issue. Jafeluv (talk) 10:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)


 * palo alto high school alumni


 * Nominator's rationale: no precedent for catting alumni by high school or equivalent Mayumashu (talk) 04:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - part of the extensive Category:People by high school in the United States. Occuli (talk) 10:47, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep -- ample precedent: see also Category:People by school in England.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as part of the precedent set worldwide for organization of such alumni using the category system. Alansohn (talk) 19:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * delete. American high school attended is almost never defining. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:43, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Good Ol’factory, and the whole damn extensive Category:People by high school in the United States with it, as far as I am concerned. Debresser (talk) 00:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Defining people by schooling earlier than University is unnecessary, and (if fully implemented) would produce thousands of very small categories- in the USA there are 93,000 public schools, plus who knows how many private ones. Even if one in 10 is a high school, that's still ~9,000 categories based on a non-defining characteristic. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Procedural question for those recommending deletion. Whatever the substantive merits of categorising people by secondary school, or in particular of categorising American people by secondary school, is it actually appropriate to pounce on one out of the 147 sub-categories of with a general argument which could be applied to them all?  Shouldn't this be done as a broader nomination advertised at WP:SCHOOLS etc, and consisting at least of several sample categories if not of the whole lot of them? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps more properly, WP:BIOGRAPHY; these are for articles about people, not articles about schools. postdlf (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, WP:BIOGRAPHY would better for the just that reason. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Procedural do not delete - As much as I support listifying these categories to "Notable alumni" sections within articles for each individual school, the brunette is correct (something that is suspiciously too common). :) –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 21:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops! I must ask them to tweak my error-rate setting upwards to avoid arousing more suspicions ... :) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. As pointed out above, this is not defining for most, if not all, of these individuals.  If you are concerned about picking on this single category, then consider this a test case for an upcoming group nomination.  As to the category, in the US, alumni is generally taken to mean a graduate.  The introduction includes those who attended.  That clearly challenges any attempt to justify keeping this as defining.  How long did you need to attend the school for it to matter?  I might have supported a listify, but the list is already included in the school article so we can simply delete the category. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI: the US seems to have a 15–20% annual high school dropout rate. –B LACK F ALCON  (T ALK ) 04:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. This category, and the list of notable alumni in Palo Alto High School, do not include all the same entries. If this category is to be deleted, then the list should be updated to include all members of the category prior to the deletion, or else valuable information will be lost. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:45, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note – has been debated at some length and usually inconclusively, eg at DRV in 2008. Occuli (talk) 01:36, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:BSN players
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. —  ξ <sup style="color:#000000;">xplicit  05:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:BSN players to Category:Baloncesto Superior Nacional players
 * Nominator's rationale: expanding abbreviation, as per norm. Mayumashu (talk) 04:16, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Rename to match full name of parent article. Alansohn (talk) 19:58, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename away from acronym. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename to match main article, and per guideline to avoid abbreviations. Debresser (talk) 00:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Under Construction football stadiums in England
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:13, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Convert to article Category:Under Construction football stadiums in England to article List of football stadiums under construction in England
 * Nominator's rationale: Listify. It's already a list, but badly named and in category space. It just needs to be moved across to article space. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Second thoughts. Actually, on second thoughts, any such list would be a maintenance headache. It may better to just delete the category, or rename it to Category:Stadiums under construction in the United Kingdom, as a sub-category of  and . -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment The lack of any category descriptions in this space is rather irritating (general rant not specifically against any editor). We do have Category:Buildings under construction (which perhaps ought to be Category:Buildings and structures under construction), a descendent of Category:Development projects which in turn is under Category:Planned developments (which includes proposed, under construction, and on hiatus projects), plus the oddball Category:Construction projects in the Öresund Region. I do not know if "development project" and "planned development" have specific meanings in the building trade. In any case, I wouldn't worry excessively about trying to slot this category into an existing system, because to my layman's eye, there is no comprehensible system. - choster (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. I wonder if these are better linked with a template?  Then you can add various types of structures in one place and see the whole picture in one place.  Given how often these change and the fact that the size can vary greatly over time, including down to zero, a category has some serious issues.  So at this point, I'm leaning to create a template. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak delete This category is per definition temporary. Although that alone may be a weak argument, I don't see much point in this category. Debresser (talk) 00:28, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I think the comments above say it all, especially the second thoughts by BHG who now seems to favor deletion. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Vermont Maple Syrup
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * vermont maple syrup


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. I think this 3-article category is going to come to a sticky end. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Are we back to the puns again? ;)  Delete, this one's all tapped out. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete And thanks for the humor. It is appreciated. Debresser (talk) 00:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Winners of the Grand Prix de Littérature Policière
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:14, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * winners of the grand prix de littérature policière


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Per WP:OC, a list is fine, and it already exists at Grand Prix de Littérature Policière. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:40, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW, I make this the 4th instance in the last week of Alansohn applying the word "specious" to a CFD rationale he disagrees (see the last one). It's not very WP:CIVIL or WP:AGF. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:50, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete -- lists work much better. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep a defining award that works even better, per WP:CLN, when both a list *AND* category coexist. The argument that "lists work much better" is not even worthy of being considered specious. Plain and simple, categories suck. If we were to actually allow judgments to be based on "lists work much better", we'd just toss the whole category system into the bit bucket as no category can do even a fraction of what lists can. Alansohn (talk) 19:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep the category because categories suck? It's an interesting, albeit novel, logic.
 * Has this category been depopulated? The list is full of blue links, yet this category only has a single entry?  I'm somewhat tempted to go through and add every article that ought to be in this category so we can see what it ought to look like, and then deliberate.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 11:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. There's no sign of depopulation when using related changes, and Database_reports/Uncategorized_categories shows only one category member as of monday. I can't see any useful purpose in populating the category, when the list shows exactly how many people would be in the category if fully populated (124). In fact, populating it now might appear a little WP:POINTy. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I learned something today. I had no idea either of those functions existed- though I shouldn't be surprised; this software has too many buttons!  I don't want to be disruptive, so suffice it to say if we keep this category, we have a couple dozen more articles that belong in it.  (In fact, I wasn't even trying to be.  My thinking was that up above we have a category that could contain 50 or so articles, but only 3 that could go there actually exist, whereas this one never got the articles that exist that belong.)  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 19:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I looked at the list and a few of the articles and don't see a mention of the award in my small sample.  So, if a number of articles don't see the award as important enough to discuss the importance, then the award is minor and the category can be deleted. Vegaswikian (talk) 09:18, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Women arrested for electoral participation (United States)
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * women arrested for electoral participation (united states)

The category contains only one article, Susan B. Anthony, which appears to be already well-categorised. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Being arrested is not of itself a defining characteristic of someone. If the arrest leads to conviction and imprisonment, or torture or disappearance, then yes; but mere arrest is not so significant. A search of categories no others for people arrested or for arrests. ISTR similar categories being deleted in the past, but can't recall which.


 * Delete In the long run, those known for being activists are known for being activists and not necessarily for the consequences of their activism. If we leave aside the activism, this category is nothing more than a "mere" arrest as noted by the nom, which we do not categorize for.- choster (talk) 18:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and choster. Unnecessary hairsplitting on a minor and non-defining distinction as noted; Category:American suffragists is more than sufficient. Bearcat (talk) 05:34, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete but only per argument that there is only one article in this category that is already well organised, and that this category is not part of a similar structure. I disagree with the argument that this is non-defining. Debresser (talk) 00:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Peterson Family
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * peterson family


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Small category with no prospect of expansion, per WP:OC. The category contains 3 articles, on a father and his two sons, who are interlinked already. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:16, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. A template navbox might be useful, but not this category.  Also, this is surely not the only Peterson Family something could be written about.


 * Delete per nominator. Debresser (talk) 00:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.