Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 September 26



Category:Arabia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv (talk) 09:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Arabia to Category:Arabian Peninsula
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. The word "Arabia" is ambiguous, as it can refer to both the Arab World and the Arab Peninsula. Currently, the articles in the category appear to be all connected to Arab Peninsula. bogdan (talk) 21:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename Arabia is also a redirect to Arabian Peninsula. Debresser (talk) 23:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Rename to match title of parent article and better describe contents. Alansohn (talk) 01:10, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Church of God in Christ Christians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Members of the Church of God in Christ. Jafeluv (talk) 09:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * church of god in christ christians


 * Nominator's rationale: I don't believe that Christian churchs in the US are categorized according to church in this way, although membership in a given denomination may be designated. In any case, they aren't called "Church of God in Christ Christians" vs. "Nazarene Christians", etc. I'm not sure what needs to be done with this category, but it isn't correct. Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:52, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Church of God in Christ is the Christian denomination or church. Christians are categorized according to individual denominations/churches (i.e., Lutherans, Chalcedonian Christians, Oriental Orthodox Christians, etc.).  This category categorizes people who are/were members of this Christian denomination.  Another way to word it would be "people associated with the Church of God in Christ," or "Members of the Church of God in Christ" (except everyone associated with this denomination may not necessarily be a "member" of the denomination).  Other examples of the properness of this category include:  Category:Chalcedonian Christians, Category:Arian Christians, Category:Eastern Orthodox Christians, Category:Coptic Christians, etc. Vermilib (talk) 16:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Church of God in Christ is a Protestant Christian church in the United States. The categories you note above are largely part of a division of the early Christian church, which includes Category:Protestants. In any case, since this is not my area of expertise, I bring it here because our categories in this area don't tend toward this wording. See Category:Methodists, Category:Lutherans, Category:Baptists, Category:Quakers, Category:Pentecostals, Category:Presbyterians, Category:Congregationalists, etc. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:39, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep / Consider Rename The category captures a defining characteristic. A rename may be appropriate and i will be happy to consider options offered. Alansohn (talk) 01:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Members of the Church of God in Christ per Category:Members of the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel and others where there's no handy adjectival form. That's fine for past & present members, & if they are neither they shouldn't be there. Johnbod (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Admin note: Vermilib (the creator of the category) is a sockpuppet of Pastorwayne and has been blocked. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Members of the Church of God in Christ per Johnbod, although 'People' is another formulation - see eg subcats of Category:Evangelicals (not all created by Pastor Wayne or his unimaginatively named cohorts). Occuli (talk) 15:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename per Johnbod. Seems like a valid religion sub-category. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:52, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support last suggestion. This is (as I understand it) a substantial denomination, and there is no reason why it should not exist, if it can be adequately populated by people for whom membership of this denomination is a significant characteristic.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:06, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:ASIFA local animation film festivals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:International Animated Film Association per revised nomination. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * asifa local animation film festivals


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete The creator of Category:ASIFA international animation film festivals and Category:ASIFA accredited animation film festivals -- the latter created during a CfD for the former -- has now created this, in spite of the fact that the whole poorly thought-out category tree is likely to be deleted. ASIFA-Hollywood is not a festival, is it a local chapter of the International Animated Film Association. I had considered renaming to Category:Local chapters of the International Animated Film Association, but there is at present just the one article. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:37, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The editor is now was briefly blocked for template blanking. Prior to his block, the user created articles on what looks like two bona fide ASIFA organized festivals, and categorized them here. The Annie Awards, which has its own template & category, are also presented by ASIFA. So that makes, by my count, five articles as well as a subcategory for the Annies. So on that basis, I change my delete nom to a rename to Category:International Animated Film Association top level category for the organization, along the lines of what we have for other major film orgs. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If more ASIFA-offered (as opposed to the non-defining sponsored or accredited) film festivals can be found amongst their local chapters around the world, I'd support the creation of an International Animated Film Association festival sub-category. However, right now we just have two, so such a category is not warranted, per WP:OC. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:07, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Shōhō class aircraft carriers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv (talk) 09:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Shōhō class aircraft carriers to Category:Zuihō class aircraft carriers
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. To match the main article of the category, Zuihō class aircraft carrier. (I have no special knowledge of these ships, so if the class is really known best by the "Shōhō class" name, I'll withdraw if the main article and the navbox template are renamed.) — Bellhalla (talk) 12:39, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Rename to match title of parent article. Alansohn (talk) 01:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Summer Set albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename Category:Summer Set albums to Category:The Summer Set albums.  --  X damr  talk 20:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Summer Set albums to Category:The Summer Set EPs
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. The correct name for this group is The Summer Set, and the contents of the category are EPs not albums. Tassedethe (talk) 11:45, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:The Summer Set albums as (so far) EPs and albums have been collected together; see eg Category:EPs – there is no Category:EPs by artist – or see Category:The Beatles albums. (The Summer Set do have a 2009 album, to be released shortly.) Occuli (talk) 14:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


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Persian Gulf

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Category:Persian Gulf states and Category:Arab states of the Persian Gulf into Category:Persian Gulf countries. Jafeluv (talk) 09:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Persian Gulf countries to Category:Persian Gulf states
 * Propose merging Category:Arab states of the Persian Gulf to Category:Persian Gulf states
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. Three categories all covering the same topic. Tassedethe (talk) 11:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Query – given that a parent category is Category:Southwest Asian countries, why are we not using 'countries'? Occuli (talk) 14:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge all to Category:Arabian peninsula, see above. Johnbod (talk) 04:20, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with Occuli's comment; merge all 3 to Category:Persian Gulf countries as three parent categories use countries not states; Middle Eastern countries, Southwest Asian countries & Indian Ocean countries. It should be a category for "countries" Hugo999 (talk) 12:52, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge per Occuli. Debresser (talk) 17:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support last suggestion -- we usually use "countries" for sovereign states in WP. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Nordic folklore

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: No Consensus.  --  X damr  talk 20:53, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:Nordic folklore to Category:Scandinavian folklore
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. (At the suggestion of Debresser listing an incorrectly tagged category). Original tagger's reasoning at talk page here. Not sure if reasoning is clear, but the categories have a lot of overlap. Category:Nordic folklore is categorised as Category:Scandinavian folklore and vice versa. Original tagger notified. Tassedethe (talk) 11:07, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge, just as Nordic folklore is a redirect to Scandinavian folklore. Debresser (talk) 18:58, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment -- Iceland is a Nordic Country but not in Scandinavia, likewise Denmark -- possibly reverse merge, and move the article accordingly. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


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Transgender people and behavior

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Jafeluv (talk) 21:54, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:Transgender people and behavior to Category:Transgender, Category:Gender transitioning and Category:Transgender and transsexual people
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge (At the suggestion of Debresser listing an incorrectly tagged category). Original tagger's reasoning: "Merge and delete This category doesn't accurately describe what it contains. Few if any of these articles relate to "behavior" and there is already a category for transgender people. All the articles contained in it should be merged with other categories, and then this category should be deleted." Original tagger notified. Tassedethe (talk) 10:58, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Support merge. To me, the phrase "Transgender people and behavior" is just a long-winded form of "Transgender". As the "Transgender and transsexual people"cat already covers people, i see no need for a category of behaviours - notable behaviours can go to more specific sub-categores (eg. Gender transitioning or Transgender organisations) or simply go to the parent cat (Transgender). Yob  Mod  09:45, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Ásatrú

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Jafeluv (talk) 09:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Suggest merging Category:Ásatrú to Category:Germanic neopaganism
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. At the suggestion of Debresser listing an incorrectly tagged category. Original tagger's reasoning from talk page: "I suggest renaming this category to Category:Germanic Neopaganism, to be a subsection of Germanic paganism; see the terminology section on Asatru for reasons". Original tagger notified. Tassedethe (talk) 10:45, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge Note that Ásatrú is a redirect to Germanic Neopaganism. Debresser (talk) 19:00, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge. All this category contains is two subcategories, and the parent is not overloaded. --RL0919 (talk) 20:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


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AFL

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename all. Jafeluv (talk) 09:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:AFL All-League players to Category:American Football League All-League players
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL All-Star players to Category:American Football League All-Star players
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL All-Time Team to Category:American Football League All-Time Team
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL Most Valuable Players to Category:American Football League Most Valuable Players
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL Rookies of the Year to Category:American Football League Rookies of the Year
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL rushing leaders to Category:American Football League rushing leaders
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL Awards Seasons Voting to Category:Australian Football League Awards Seasons Voting
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL Draft to Category:Australian Football League Draft
 * Propose renaming Category:AFL Womens National Championships to Category:Australian Football League Womens National Championships
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Rename to disambiguate. AFL is a disambiguation page, and the parent categories are Category:American Football League and Category:Australian Football League. Tassedethe (talk) 09:40, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename. Abbreviations should be avoided, except when 1) the abbreviation is the generally or officially used name, and 2) there are no conflicts. Neither is true in this case, so renaming is appropriate. --darolew (talk) 01:46, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support rename based on naming convention and need for accuracy. -- Eastlaw  talk ⁄ contribs 01:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


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Category:L'Arc~en~Ciel members

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv (talk) 09:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:L'Arc~en~Ciel members to Category:L'Arc-en-Ciel members
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Remove non-standard characters to match article L'Arc-en-Ciel and parent category Category:L'Arc-en-Ciel. Tassedethe (talk) 09:25, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename - the article does mention L'Arc~en~Ciel often (as does the template) but it seems to have moved from L'Arc~en~Ciel in 2007. Occuli (talk) 14:07, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


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Kyrgyzstani

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Keep.  Consensus seems to be in favour of 'Kyrgyzstani' as the appropriate adjectival form.  Recommend further nomination to bring non-conforming categories into consistency.  --  X damr  talk 20:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani football clubs to Category:Kyrgyz football clubs
 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani football competitions to Category:Kyrgyz football competitions
 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani football logos to Category:Kyrgyz football logos
 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani footballers to Category:Kyrgyz footballers
 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani sport wrestlers to Category:Kyrgyz sport wrestlers
 * Propose renaming Category:Kyrgyzstani swimmers to Category:Kyrgyz swimmers
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Standard adjective form of Kyrgyzstan is Kyrgyz not Kyrgyzstani (e.g see Category:Kyrgyz culture or Category:Kyrgyz people). Tassedethe (talk) 08:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep all The "Kyrgystani" form is useful for distinguishing between the state of Kyrgyzstan and the Kyrgyz ethnic group. For example, Ruslan Sydykov, who plays for the Kyrgyzstan national team, is Tatar by ethnicity. He would be a Kyrgyzstani footballer but not a Kyrgyz one.-choster (talk) 17:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. I agree with choster in theory but I don't think this is the way things have been applied in practice. is the category for the nationality, not the enthnicity. There is no . But choster is correct when he says this is the way things should be. I think we should keep and change the "kyrgyz" ones to "kyrgyzstani" when the nationality is intended. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Split per Choster's rationale. 76.66.197.30 (talk) 13:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


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Category:U.S. state halls of fame

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename Category:U.S. state halls of fame to Category:State halls of fame in the United States.  --  X damr  talk 21:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:U.S. state halls of fame to Category:Halls of fame in the United States by state
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Expand the U.S. and hopefully clarify the purpose and better match the sister categories in Category:American culture by state. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep and cleanup. This is in no wise a "by state" category; there are no state-level subcategories, and the listings are not for simply any hall located in a U.S. state (e.g. Rodeo Hall of Fame). What are collected here are "statewide" halls of fame, some general (Hall of Famous Missourians), though some are limited to some particular subset of persons associated with the state (Oklahoma Women's Hall of Fame or Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame). I would say the latter category of listings be moved into the respective sibling categories, leaving this category only for the six general state halls.-choster (talk) 21:34, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:State halls of fame in the United States. Choster is correct that "by state" categories are an entirely different thing. However, the abbreviation should be expanded per Naming conventions (categories), and this way the category name would be closer to the usage in sibling categories. Jafeluv (talk) 09:19, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's acceptable. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:57, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Works for me, too.- choster (talk) 06:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Kröd Mändoon and the Flaming Sword of Fire

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * kröd mändoon and the flaming sword of fire


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Category currently used to link the actors in a television show, unnecessary and goes against established precedent of not categorising performers by performance. Tassedethe (talk) 06:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


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Category:Barnstorming teams

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete.  --  X damr  talk 20:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * barnstorming teams


 * Nominator's rationale: Barnstorming is not a defining characteristic of sports teams (per WP:OCAT). During the 19th century and first half of the 20th century, most United States sports teams engaged in barnstorming until their leagues began forbidding the practice. (I'm not as familiar with practices in other countries.) Consequently, it would be very difficult to identify and verify which historical teams belong in this category. BRMo (talk) 04:57, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep barnstorming was a phenomenon of many different sports and a defining characteristic of such teams, both historically and such modern barnstormers as the Harlem Globetrotters and Harlem Wizards. Sure, there will be some borderline cases, which should be addressed individually without disrupting the use of the category for navigation purposes. Alansohn (talk) 01:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll illustrate the issue with a question: Of the 16 Major League Baseball teams that existed before the 1961 expansion, how many engaged in barnstorming?  I can find references to barnstorming activity by at least six of them (mostly before 1920). My guess is that most of other teams also occasionally engaged in barnstorming after the end of the season, but I don't know of any reliable sources that would identify them. Barnstorming was never the main activity for any of these teams, but it was a way for them to supplement their income after the end of the regular season.  Before the 1940s barnstorming was also common for minor league baseball teams and Negro league baseball teams.  Barnstorming might be a defining characteristic for some teams like the Harlem Globetrotters, but there were many other teams that engaged in the activity and for whom it is not defining. BRMo (talk) 02:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Presumably this could apply to every single team that was not a member of a league at one time or another. Because of the difficultly in determining whether or not this feature would apply to a team, this seems like the type of thing that should be dealt with in Barnstorm (sports), where things can be well-referenced. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


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Category:One songs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv (talk) 09:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:One songs to Category:One (band) songs
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. To match main article One (band). Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rename. Far too ambiguous without the disambiguation. — ξ <sup style="color:#000000;">xplicit  16:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Rename per nominator and ξ . Debresser (talk) 18:54, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Rename to match title of parent article and clarify contents of category. Alansohn (talk) 01:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Rename per others. Occuli (talk) 16:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


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Category:The Unforgettable Fire
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv (talk) 09:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Propose deletion: Category:The Unforgettable Fire. Also by same reasoning Category:The Best of 1980–1990 and Category:The Best of 1990–2000.
 * Nominator's rationale: Having a category for songs on a particular album seems like drastic overcategorization to me, including per the non-defining characteristic, the small with no potential for growth characteristic, and just common sense. If this category strategy becomes accepted, it will mean creation of literally thousands of new categories, given how large Category:Albums is.  And some common songs that have been covered by dozens of artists and appeared on many compilations will have scores of categories they belong in.  In terms of reader utility, album articles all contain very visible, very easily read "Track listing" sections that make clear what songs are on the album.  That's a much better mechanism to convey this information than a category.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:23, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * PS. If the decision is that these categories are a good idea, then fine, I'll accept that and move on. I just want the community to decide this upfront, before lots of work gets put into this large-scale category expansion.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep: Categories are the official and long-standing system to, well, categorise articles. Unlike the plethora of infoboxes and navboxes littering articles, they are largely a behind the scenes structural system navigation and collection, with only a well-defined section out of the way at the bottom of a page. If people actually want to create 1000s of cats, so be it, but where is the problem? Surely it's better than thousands of glittering nav and info boxes that now dominate, in this case, U2 articles. --Merbabu (talk) 03:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with Merbabu that there are too many infobox fields and nav boxes and nav templates (you should see some of the U.S. political articles I work on ...), but I don't see that as related to this. Every song article describes the major albums the song appears on, and users can click on that to get to the album article, then read the track listing there and click on those entries to see other song articles.  I don't see any advantage to these new categories for navigation.  But others may disagree.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This relies on the article content (in this case a link in the tracklist) to be setup for navigation. If, like many articles, there is no link in the tracklist (ie, people try too hard to ensure that articles are linked once in an article). Cats are standard functions, behind the scenes and neat and not dependent on article content.
 * Anyway, my intention was to only do U2. As for the notion that this sets a precedent for 1000s of articles, why not judge each case on its merits? Ie, I hazard a guess that U2 has more album and song pages than the majority of artists on wikipedia, and hence larger scope for categorisation. --Merbabu (talk) 03:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Leaning toward delete - while I understand Merbabu's intent that this categorization scheme be restricted to albums with several notable songs, the fact is that once a category scheme gets started up there is nothing that will restrict its growth to only those that would strictly fit this pattern. While there are certainly exceptions, in most instances an individual album is going to have very few songs on it that are independently notable, so as this scheme gets implemented we are going to end up with thousands of very small categories. I agree that there are too many navboxes in general but I don't see this category system as a means of alleviating them. Presumably the song infobox would remain, with its "precede by" and "followed by" fields. There is also the question of re-releases and covers. To offer one example, Cher used to be in the habit, each time she had a new hit, of releasing a new Greatest Hits album which included mostly the material from the last GH album along with the new hit. So a song like Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves would find itself in several GH categories which would offer little or no navigational benefit. Finally I question whether very many people would navigate album contents using a category in the first place. I don't recall ever seeing a song article that was from an album (as opposed to a stand-alone single) that didn't have in its lead sentence a link to the album it's from. It seems far more likely that someone looking for more information about the album is going to click on the album link in the article rather than the category link. The album article will serve as a navigational hub for its songs with articles and, should one run across a song or album article that isn't thusly interlinked, it's easier to type in a couple of brackets to create the link than it is to create and/or populate a micro-category. Otto4711 (talk) 01:28, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - songs on an album should be listed on the album article, and a category per album is overkill by a factor of several thousand. Occuli (talk) 19:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. No band on Wikipedia has so many song articles that it needs to have those songs broken up by albums. Not even this one.--Mike Selinker (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete -- the other song articles are all listed in the article, so that having a category serves no useful purpose. They might also be added at the end of the infobox, where two of them are already listed.  If the object is to enable succession boxes to be added to song articles, please don't create the missing them, as I dount we need them.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * NB category is not tagged. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.