Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 March 24



Category:Arabic albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * arabic albums


 * Nominator's rationale: Either this is a category about the nationality of the artist or the language on an album. If the former, then these subcategories should be upmerged to Category:Albums by artist nationality (note that several already are) and the individual articles put into subcategories of that. If it's the latter, this should simply be deleted in favor of Category:Arabic-language albums and the nationality categories should be taken out (e.g. Iraqi artists could cut albums in Kurdish or even English for that matter.) I don't think that these sort of trasnational (in terms of political borders) categories are a wise decision. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:45, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Concur with the nomination completely. We have better named and defined places to redistribute all of these albums.  Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. It seems to be mostly the former. The ones that are language should be in Category:Arabic-language albums; many of them already are. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. I've gone through the contents and done a bit of a clean up and checking, and I can confirm that now all of the contents that are Arabic-language albums are in, so a straight delete should be OK to do. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Companies based in New Albany, Ohio

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:, see Categories for discussion/Log/2010 April 5. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose either:
 * merging Category:Companies based in New Albany, Ohio to Category:Companies based in Ohio
 * OR
 * reaming Category:Companies based in New Albany, Ohio to Category:Companies based in Franklin County, Ohio
 * Nominator's rationale: This category is overcategorisation per per WP:OC (small with no prospect of expansion). New Albany, Ohio is a village with a population of only about 6 or 7,000, and is unlikely to many more notable companies. Either merge to the state category, or renaming it to serve as a by-county category. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:45, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Prefer a county category of the two. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: An anon account is tryuing to effectively merge this into Category:Companies based in Columbus, Ohio. That may make sense, but I've reverted the edit for the time being.   Will Beback    talk    18:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Archbishops of Changanassery

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: reverse merge, i.e. Category:Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Archdiocese of Changanassery to Category:Archbishops of Changanassery. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Archbishops of Changanassery to Category:Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Archdiocese of Changanassery
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge, or maybe reverse merge. Either way, these are a duplicate, because the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church appears to be the only church with an Archbishop of Changanassery. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:37, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Per the discussion below, I support a reverse merge. Since only one Christian denomination has an Archbishop of Changanassery, there is no need for a verbose version of the title.  And per Occuli 'Archbishops of the Archdiocese of Foo' is redundant: an archbishops see is always an archdiocese, so 'Archbishops of Foo' is fine. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:40, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Reverse merge – shades of PastorWayne's epic creations such as Category:Primates of the Catholicosate of the East and Malankara Metropolitanate of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. Category:Archbishops of Changanassery does the job. (We have 'Archbishops of Foo', not 'Archbishops of the Archdiocese of Foo'.) Occuli (talk) 01:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Reverse Merge Such disambiguation is only necessary when two particular churches share a Bishopric, for example the co-located Dioceses of Spokane.  Without that being the case, the shorter one works better. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge unless there is ambiguity, in which case merge both to Category:Archbishops of Changanassery (Catholic).  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Archdiocese of Changanassery User:Lucifero4


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:David Newman albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:David "Fathead" Newman albums. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:David Newman albums to Category:David "Fathead" Newman albums
 * Nominator's rationale: Keeping in line with the article move; the subject was almost always (if not universally) credited as David "Fathead" Newman. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Rename to match title of parent article. Alansohn (talk) 04:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Live music DVDs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Live video albums. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Live music DVDs to Category:Live video albums
 * Nominator's rationale: Apparently, this is an intersection of Category:Video albums and Category:Live albums (I have categorized it as such myself). The problem is that by calling them "DVDs" you are excluding other home video formats for video albums&mdash;Betamax, Laserdisc, VHS&mdash; and unnecessarily making this a category about a format rather than its contents. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Rename – this is in line with previous cfds such as this one renaming 'Music videos and DVDs' to 'video albums'. Occuli (talk) 21:35, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Green woodworking tools

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete or to rename to one particular title. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * green woodworking tools


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Delete as OCAT. The articles don't mention these being green.  If we were to populate by extension of the contents, all stone age tools would need to be included.  Somehow that seems to be overly broad for a category.  Note that green as used here probably means new wood that has not yet had much processing or is unseasoned. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. A better name for the category would be Category:Traditional hand woodworking tools. I think the green means they are hand powered; which means the current name is ambiguous. Twiceuponatime (talk) 09:09, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose deletion, Oppose rename. There is an accepted practice on WP of categories for specific trades, for tools in general, and for a category representing the cross-section of tools used particularly by specific trades. This is that category, for tools used in the practice of green woodworking. Green woodworking is well defined (the working of timber in the "green" or unseasoned state). Although green woorkers are often a bit beardy, there's no scope for confusion with "stone age" tools. Nor is there any implication that green tools are "green" (in the ecowashing sense) or hand-powered. Even though they are traditional, there's no implication that traditional tools are only used for green woodworking, and so the rename would be wrong. The category also has content, description, and relevant cross-linkage with Commons. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Tools for green woodworking since the current name clearly just confuses people. Not sure the category is needed at all - that would depend on how much the average member is exclusively for green work. Johnbod (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Andy Dingley has given a clearly stated justification for the category. The name might need working on; but there is always going to be some confusion as the tools can and are used on both green and seasoned wood. Twiceuponatime (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki categorization isn't for defining taxonomy (i.e. defining the overall location of member items). It would need to be rather more sophisticated if it were to be used successfully for that. Instead it's a way of generating navigational structures: category members define categories to produce structures of "common interest" and thus a nav structure amongst them (rather than the taxonomic view, where categories define aspects of their members). So it's just not a problem if Axes appear under both green woodworking tools, firefighting equipment and Tools for serial killers: there's no implication that an Axe is-and-only-is any one of these categories. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Asian Americans in music

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Asian American musicians. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Asian Americans in music to Category:Asian American musicians
 * Nominator's rationale: merge (over the present redirect) to the more standardly name page Mayumashu (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom to the standard name. Occuli (talk) 21:35, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Okinawa

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:, see Categories for discussion/Log/2010 April 5. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:People from Okinawa to Category:People from Okinawa Island
 * Nominator's rationale: to disambiguate from Category:People from Okinawa Prefecture and as per article page Okinawa Island Mayumashu (talk) 15:43, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there a need for both of these? How much does the prefecture include that the island does not- it's not crystal clear from the articles; which give a higher population for the Island than the Prefecture, which is obviously an effect of one number being from 2009 and the other from 2008. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 08:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

FOOian Canadians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge all. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose UPMERGING:


 * Category: European Canadians to Category:Canadian people of European descent
 * Category: American Canadians to Category:Canadian people of American descent
 * Category: Armenian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Armenian descent
 * Category: Austrian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Austrian descent
 * Category: Azeri Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Azeri descent
 * Category: Belarusian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Belarusian descent
 * Category: Belgian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Belgian descent
 * Category: Bosnia and Herzegovina Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Bosnia and Herzegovina descent
 * Category: British Canadians to Category:Canadian people of British descent
 * Category: Bulgarian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Bulgarian descent
 * Category: Croatian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Croatian descent
 * Category: Czech Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Czech descent
 * Category: Danish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Danish descent
 * Category: Dutch Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Dutch descent
 * Category: English Canadians to Category:Canadian people of English descent
 * Category: Finnish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Finnish descent
 * Category: German Canadians to Category:Canadian people of German descent
 * Category: Gibraltarian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Gibraltarian descent
 * Category: Greek Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Greek descent
 * Category: Hungarian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Hungarian descent
 * Category: Icelandic Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Icelandic descent
 * Category: Irish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Irish descent
 * Category: Israeli Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Israeli descent
 * Category: Italian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Italian descent
 * Category: Latvian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Latvian descent
 * Category: Lithuanian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Lithuanian descent
 * Category: Macedonian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Macedonian descent
 * Category: Montenegrin Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Montenegrin descent
 * Category: Norwegian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Norwegian descent
 * Category: Polish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Polish descent
 * Category: Portuguese Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Portuguese descent
 * Category: Romanian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Romanian descent
 * Category: Russian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Russian descent
 * Category: Scottish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Scottish descent
 * Category: Serbian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Serbian descent
 * Category: Sicilian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Sicilian descent
 * Category: Slovak Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Slovak descent
 * Category: Spanish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Spanish descent
 * Category: Swedish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Swedish descent
 * Category: Swiss Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Swiss descent
 * Category: Ukrainian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Ukrainian descent
 * Category: Ulster-Scottish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Ulster-Scottish descent
 * Category: Welsh Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Welsh descent
 * Category: African Canadians to Category:Canadian people of African descent
 * Category: Algerian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Algerian descent
 * Category: Cameroonian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Cameroonian descent
 * Category: Ghanaian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Ghanaian descent
 * Category: Ivorian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Ivorian descent
 * Category: Kenyan Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Kenyan descent
 * Category: Malawian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Malawian descent
 * Category: Nigerian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Nigerian descent
 * Category: Somali Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Somali descent
 * Category: South African Canadians to Category:Canadian people of South African descent
 * Category: Ugandan Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Ugandan descent
 * Category: Zambian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Zambian descent
 * Category: Arab Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Arab descent
 * Category: Iraqi Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Iraqi descent
 * Category: Lebanese Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Lebanese descent
 * Category: Syrian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Syrian descent
 * Category: Yemeni Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Yemeni descent
 * Category: Asian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Asian descent
 * Category: Chinese Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Chinese descent
 * Category: Filipino Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Filipino descent
 * Category: Hong Kong Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Hong Kong descent
 * Category: Indo-Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Indian descent
 * Category: Iranian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Iranian descent
 * Category: Japanese Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Japanese descent
 * Category: Korean Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Korean descent
 * Category: Malaysian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Malaysian descent
 * Category: Singaporean Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Singaporean descent
 * Category: Sri Lankan Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Sri Lankan descent
 * Category: Turkish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Turkish descent
 * Category: Vietnamese Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Vietnamese descent
 * Category: Pakistani Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Pakistani descent
 * Category: Anglo-Irish Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Anglo-Irish descent
 * Category: Caribbean Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Caribbean descent
 * Category: Barbadian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Barbadian descent
 * Category: Cuban Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Cuban descent
 * Category: Dominican Republic Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Dominican Republic descent
 * Category: Haitian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Haitian descent
 * Category: Jamaican Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Jamaican descent
 * Category: Trinidad and Tobago Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Trinidad and Tobago descent
 * Category: Latin American Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Latin American descent
 * Category: Argentine Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Argentine descent
 * Category: Brazilian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Brazilian descent
 * Category: Chilean Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Chilean descent
 * Category: Colombian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Colombian descent
 * Category: Guatemalan Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Guatemalan descent
 * Category: Mexican Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Mexican descent
 * Category: Peruvian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Peruvian descent
 * Category: Australian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Australian descent
 * Category: New Zealand Canadians to Category:Canadian people of New Zealand descent
 * Category: Swiss-German Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Swiss-German descent
 * Category: South Asian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of South Asian descent
 * Category: Scandinavian Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Scandinavian descent
 * Category: Salvadoran Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Salvadoran descent
 * Category: Sierra Leonean Canadians to Category:Canadian people of Sierra Leonean descent


 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge all. I'm proposing that each of the "FOOian Canadians" categories be upmerged to its parent, which is invariably the corresponding "Canadian people of FOOian descent". This system is not a duplicate of the American ethnicity set-up that was recently discussed. This system is more intricate and is unique—meaning that the distinction between the two types of categories is not always clear, but it is clear that only the Canadian tree is divided in this way. In most of the nominated categories, there is a definition that says this: "This page lists citizens of Canada of full FOOian ethnicity or national origin. For those of partial descent see Category:Canadian people of FOOian descent." I don't think it's a good idea at all to divide people by a "full" vs. "partial" ethnic or national descent for a number of reasons.
 * 1. First of all, doing so relies heavily on original research. Are sources really making the distinction between full and partial descent? How "full" does one have to be to be "full"? Isn't it easier for users who categorize to just have one category for every nationality/ethnicity combination rather than forcing them to determine if someone is of "full" or "partial" descent?
 * 2. Next, it's overcategorization: the ethnic descent categories for all other nationalities just have one category per nationality/ethnicity combination, not one for "full" and one for "partial". While strictly speaking there might be a difference between the two, as mentioned above I don't think categories are amenable to such fine slicing of ethnic backgrounds. Past consensus supports this point. We have enough troubles emanating from these categories without introducing another sub-issue to have fights over.
 * 3. In the recent discussion in which the "FOOian Americans" categories were changed to "American people of FOO descent", some users suggested that we should have both types of categories in the fashion of "the Canadian tree" (this one), but this approach was not endorsed by most participants and obviously it was not implemented for the American ethnicity categories.
 * 4. As a compromise, it would be fine with me if users wanted to retain category redirects on the nominated categories, as was done with the American tree. — Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:59, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support – yet another sub-issue is that the rubric heading 'Cat:Fooian Canadians' often disagrees with the article 'Fooian Canadian': eg Scottish Canadian makes no mention of full/partial descent. I agree with the nom that categories are not ideal for establishing the origins of a person's DNA. (There may be some of these which would be better left alone: cf Category:African Americans. I will leave such niceties to those better informed on Canadian usage.) Occuli (talk) 11:39, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've purposefully excluded, as I think this one requires individual attention/consideration. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge all per nominator's well-reasoned rationale, but re-create existing titles as category redirects. The distinction between "full" and "partial" descent is a very hard one to maintain even with extensive genealogical research, and that research is rarely available in reliable sources. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support mergers. Too fine a distinction to keep and a problematic one given the nature of sources on this matter Mayumashu (talk) 15:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support -- French Canadian usualy refers to French-speaking Canadians, usually of Quebecois extraction. This has been correctly omitted.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:00, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Editors of New York City newspapers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep Category:Editors of New York City newspapers and merge Category:New York City newspaper editors and Category:American editors of New York City newspapers into it. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * new york city newspaper editors
 * editors of new york city newspapers
 * Nominator's rationale: The two categories Category:Editors of New York City newspapers and Category:New York City newspaper editors have one page each, and are superfluous as the usual category title with 13 pages and a subcategory is Category:American editors of New York City newspapers; this style is also used for other areas in the category Category:American newspaper editors. NB: Both members are American, but the usual category name could suggest that Non-American editors of American newspapers should have their own separate category, which I hope would not happen! Hugo999 (talk) 09:57, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * So... what exactly is the proposal? To delete the two categories listed? Or to merge them into Category:American editors of New York City newspapers? Or to get rid of the latter, and merge it into one of the nominated categories? Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:18, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The proposal is to delete them both (or merge them, the same action) and use just Category:American editors of New York City newspapers Hugo999 (talk) 10:24, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Why would we want to keep the one that adds the "American" part? Isn't that somewhat redundant, as you mention? I'd be inclined to say merge them all into Category:Editors of New York City newspapers. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:36, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I too would be inclined to merge them into Category:Editors of New York City newspapers and not assume they are all American (by removing the American parent cat). Occuli (talk) 10:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose removing the parent . The overwhelming majority of these people will be American, and removing that parent category is an impediment to navigation. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:27, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge all to Category:Editors of New York City newspapers. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge all to Category:Editors of New York City newspapers per my comments above. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:45, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Different merge -- This was my mistake. I'd suggest "New York City newspaper editors" as more concise. Maurreen (talk) 15:48, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge all -- no strong preference on which way. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:01, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge all to Category:Editors of New York City newspapers and then consider renaming other categories for California, Louisiana, Northeast and Texas editors to Category:Editors of Texas newspapers etc Hugo999 (talk) 11:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Those other categories (which are all the work of the same editor) have been nominated at CFD March 27. See also CfD 2020 March 27 American editors of Northeast newspapers. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:21, 27 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Local Authority Trading Enterprises

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * local authority trading enterprises


 * Nominator's rationale: delete: Local authority trading enterprises (LATEs) was a legislated term in New Zealand until 2003 when it was replaced by council-controlled organisations (CCOs) under the Local Government Act 2002. LATEs no longer exist under that name. The category has only one article in it. Few, if any, other CCOs have articles about them, they being generally non-notable, so it is not proposed to rename the category. Nurg (talk) 09:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, good idea. But the article on Local Authority Trading Enterprise could be put under category relating to NZ government agencies ie Category:Government agencies of New Zealand as well as under the NZ law category Hugo999 (talk) 10:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish agnostics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: do not rename. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming
 * Category:Jewish agnostics to Category:Converts to agnosticism from Judaism
 * Category:Jewish atheists to Category:Converts to atheism from Judaism
 * Category:Jewish humanists to Category:Converts to humanism from Judaism
 * Nominator's rationale: 'Jewish agnostic' etc. is strictly speaking an oxymoron and we have Category:Converts to agnosticism from Islam etc. Mayumashu (talk) 05:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand your message that "it's not blood, it's only faith" (correct me if I interpreted your "oxymoron" incorrectly). But what, precisely, makes Jews incompatible with humanism? NVO (talk) 16:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I don t know that it is, actually. The other two to me seem rather clearly oxymoronic, but we do have Category:Christian humanists, don t we.  Okay, I ll remove this one from the nomination. Mayumashu (talk) 01:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion, so "Jewish atheists" is not an oxymoron. "Converts" is also a weird term to apply to atheism or agnosticism, which prompts me to imagine the ceremony in which someone gives the required answers to affirm their conversion to agnosticism:
 * "Do you, Shlomo, sincerely declare that you really aren't particularly sure whether or not there is a God?"
 * "well, I think I do, but it varies. Some days I reckon the idea of God is nonsense, but on on other days I think it's probably an odds-on-explanation".
 * "And do you, Shlomo, declare sincerely and without mental reservation that while there may some good stuff in the Torah, you are do not to accept it as an immutable authority on the values by which you should live"
 * "Hmm, that depends which bit of the Torah you are talking of."
 * I think it's much better to skip these troubling images. Please, can we stick with the existing titles? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose as for BrownHairedGirl, only less amusingly. What's the problem with Category:Jewish atheists anyway? They're Jews, they don't stop being Jews. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:28, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ethnically? They certainly do to a point as ethnicity is a shared a heritage/culture amongst a group.  Converting from Judaism is to no longer share in Jewish heritage/culture as a whole.  But to a point I d say you are right.  Mayumashu (talk) 02:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Plenty of Jewish atheists and agnostics are still heavily involved in many aspects of Jewish culture; they just don't do the God bit. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:40, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A problem with the suggested rename is that it's not only a wording change, it's also a significant, yet probably unintended, semantic change from "Jewish" to "Judaism". They're not the same, that alone makes this a problematic change. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per BrownHairedGirl. -- Bduke    (Discussion)  01:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose - No one can convert to atheism (and especially not to agnosticism), even if there's already a category with that misleading name. Jewish atheism exists as an article. All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * See also Categories for discussion/Log/2010 March 27. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:56, 27 March 2010 (UTC)


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Audio files

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:54, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Dire Straits audio files to Category:Dire Straits audio samples
 * Propose renaming Category:Bob Dylan audio files to Category:Bob Dylan audio samples
 * Nominator's rationale: Per parent cat. Category:Non-free audio samples. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Oops. I thought I read the title from another category. maybe I got it wrong. --Richhoncho (talk) 05:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support - per nom. Occuli (talk) 10:56, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Suggest that Category:Misfits audio files is added to this nomination. Tassedethe (talk) 16:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


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Category:Carmelo Anthony

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * carmelo anthony


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Contains only main article Carmelo Anthony. Probably unneeded at this time. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:33, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete with only oner article and limited prospect of any more, it's not an aid to navigation. Alansohn (talk) 04:47, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete; no need for it at this time. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 09:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


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Architecture by country

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: NO CONSENSUS.  postdlf (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming


 * Category:Albanian architecture to Category:Architecture of Albania
 * Category:Algerian architecture to Category:Architecture of Algeria
 * Category:American architecture to Category:Architecture of the United States
 * Category:Argentine architecture to Category:Architecture of Argentina
 * Category:Armenian architecture to Category:Architecture of Armenia
 * Category:Australian architecture to Category:Architecture of Australia
 * Category:Austrian architecture to Category:Architecture of Austria
 * Category:Azerbaijani architecture to Category:Architecture of Azerbaijan
 * Category:Bangladeshi architecture to Category:Architecture of Bangladesh
 * Category:Barbadian architecture to Category:Architecture of Barbados
 * Category:Belarusian architecture to Category:Architecture of Belarus
 * Category:Belgian architecture to Category:Architecture of Belgium
 * Category:Bhutanese architecture to Category:Architecture of Bhutan
 * Category:British architecture to Category:Architecture of Great Britain
 * Category:Bolivian architecture to Category:Architecture of Bolivia
 * Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina architecture to Category:Architecture of Bosnia and Herzegovina
 * Category:Brazilian architecture to Category:Architecture of Brazil
 * Category:Bulgarian architecture to Category:Architecture of Bulgaria
 * Category:Byzantine architecture to Category:Architecture of the Byzantine Empire
 * Category:Cambodian architecture to Category:Architecture of Cambodia
 * Category:Canadian architecture to Category:Architecture of Canada
 * Category:Chilean architecture to Category:Architecture of Chile
 * Category:Chinese architecture to Category:Architecture of China
 * Category:Costa Rican architecture to Category:Architecture of Costa Rica
 * Category:Croatian architecture to Category:Architecture of Croatia
 * Category:Cuban architecture to Category:Architecture of Cuba
 * Category:Czech architecture to Category:Architecture of the Czech Republic
 * Category:Danish architecture to Category:Architecture of Denmark
 * Category:Dominican Republic architecture to Category:Architecture of the Dominican Republic
 * Category:Dutch architecture to Category:Architecture of the Netherlands
 * Category:Egyptian architecture to Category:Architecture of Egypt
 * Category:English architecture to Category:Architecture of England
 * Category:Estonian architecture to Category:Architecture of Estonia
 * Category:Finnish architecture to Category:Architecture of Finland
 * Category:French architecture to Category:Architecture of France
 * Category:German architecture to Category:Architecture of Germany
 * Category:Greek architecture to Category:Architecture of Greece
 * Category:Haitian architecture to Category:Architecture of Haiti
 * Category:Hungarian architecture to Category:Architecture of Hungary
 * Category:Icelandic architecture to Category:Architecture of Iceland
 * Category:Indian architecture to Category:Architecture of India
 * Category:Indonesian architecture to Category:Architecture of Indonesia
 * Category:Iranian architecture to Category:Architecture of Iran
 * Category:Iraqi architecture to Category:Architecture of Iraq
 * Category:Irish architecture to Category:Architecture of Ireland
 * Category:Israeli architecture to Category:Architecture of Israel
 * Category:Italian architecture to Category:Architecture of Italy
 * Category:Jamaican architecture to Category:Architecture of Jamaica
 * Category:Japanese architecture to Category:Architecture of Japan
 * Category:Korean architecture to Category:Architecture of Korea
 * Category:Latvian architecture to Category:Architecture of Latvia
 * Category:Lebanese architecture to Category:Architecture of Lebanon
 * Category:Libyan architecture to Category:Architecture of Libya
 * Category:Lithuanian architecture to Category:Architecture of Lithuania
 * Category:Luxembourg architecture to Category:Architecture of Luxembourg
 * Category:Luxembourgian architecture to Category:Architecture of Luxembourg
 * Category:Malaysian architecture to Category:Architecture of Malaysia
 * Category:Maltese architecture to Category:Architecture of Malta
 * Category:Mauritian architecture to Category:Architecture of Mauritius
 * Category:Mexican architecture to Category:Architecture of Mexico
 * Category:Moldovan architecture to Category:Architecture of Moldova
 * Category:Monegasque architecture to Category:Architecture of Monaco
 * Category:Montenegrin architecture to Category:Architecture of Montenegro
 * Category:Moroccan architecture to Category:Architecture of Morocco
 * Category:Nepalese architecture to Category:Architecture of Nepalese
 * Category:New Zealand architecture to Category:Architecture of New Zealand
 * Category:Nigerian architecture to Category:Architecture of Nigeria
 * Category:Norwegian architecture to Category:Architecture of Norway
 * Category:Ottoman architecture to Category:Architecture of the Ottoman Empire
 * Category:Pakistani architecture to Category:Architecture of Pakistan
 * Category:Peruvian architecture to Category:Architecture of Peru
 * Category:Philippine architecture to Category:Architecture of the Philippines
 * Category:Polish architecture to Category:Architecture of Poland
 * Category:Portuguese architecture to Category:Architecture of Portugal
 * Category:Romanian architecture to Category:Architecture of Romania
 * Category:Russian architecture to Category:Architecture of Russia
 * Category:Scottish architecture to Category:Architecture of Scotland
 * Category:Serbian architecture to Category:Architecture of Serbia
 * Category:Singaporean architecture to Category:Architecture of Singapore
 * Category:Slovak architecture to Category:Architecture of Slovakia
 * Category:Slovenian architecture to Category:Architecture of Slovenia
 * Category:South African architecture to Category:Architecture of South Africa
 * Category:South Asian architecture to Category:Architecture of South Asia
 * Category:Soviet architecture to Category:Architecture of the Soviet Union
 * Category:Spanish architecture to Category:Architecture of Spain
 * Category:Sri Lankan architecture to Category:Architecture of Sri Lanka
 * Category:Swedish architecture to Category:Architecture of Sweden
 * Category:Swiss architecture to Category:Architecture of Switzerland
 * Category:Taiwanese architecture to Category:Architecture of Taiwan
 * Category:Thai architecture to Category:Architecture of Thailand
 * Category:Togolese architecture to Category:Architecture of Togo
 * Category:Tunisian architecture to Category:Architecture of Tunisia
 * Category:Turkish architecture to Category:Architecture of Turkey
 * Category:Ukrainian architecture to Category:Architecture of Ukraine
 * Category:Uruguayan architecture to Category:Architecture of Uruguay
 * Category:Vietnamese architecture to Category:Architecture of Vietnam
 * Category:Welsh architecture to Category:Architecture of Wales
 * Category:Yemeni architecture to Category:Architecture of Yemen


 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. I think it would be clearer to use the noun form of the country in these categories, instead of a demonym that can be ambiguous or confusing. For Luxembourg, for example, it could be either "Luxembourgian", "Luxembourgish" or "Luxembourg architecture". I also think it's more logical for by-country categories to actually spell out the name of the country. Commons does it this way, for example. This is a follow-up to a discussion at WT:CFD about the Luxembourg category. Jafeluv (talk) 00:57, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Rename. This would be a change to the relevant naming conventions, but I think it's a good idea. We don't necessarily need all the socio-cultural topics to be in the "BARian FOO" format. I think the nomination presupposes that all "Swiss architecture" is located in Switzerland. As long as that assumption holds, there's no reason not to make this change. I don't think it would be a good idea to categorize any architecture by a Swiss architect as "Swiss architecture" when the building is outside of Switzerland. I think the categories are essentially being applied as "by country" categories and not "by nationality of architect". Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm dubious about applying this rigidly, especially for historic architecture. For example several of the articles in "Byzantine architecture" relate to places in north Italy that were only briefly part of the Byzantine Empire, and not always when the building was constructed - it is normally treated as a stylistic not a geographic or political term. In the same way "architecture of Great Britain" is not the same as "British architecture", though I think our categorization mostly behaves as though it is. Also, we already have Category:Architecture of the United Kingdom; it would be unnecessary and non-standard to have the proposed Category:Architecture of Great Britain as well. I suspect similar difficulties lurk in other proposed changes.   Johnbod (talk) 14:38, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - to avoid ambiguity it really needs to be Category:Architecture in Albania, etc. On that basis it would just be Category:Architecture in England, Wales and so on and there'd be no need for Category:Architecture in GB. HeartofaDog (talk) 15:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose I agree completely with Johnbod. Same in Serbia, where numerous peaces of Serbian architecture are not in Serbia, then in other parts of Former Yugoslavia, while most of them are regarded as exclusively Serbian Architecture. I oppose. - Tadijataking 21:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have some concerns about this, per Johnbod. I can see three alternative names, with a different set of meanings, and we need to decide which meaning we want to use:
 * Architecture in Foo. (Fairly straightforward classification by the location of the building)
 * Fooian architecture (architecture of a Fooian style, wherever it is located. So, for example, the Foster-designed Torre de Collserola in Barcelona is British architecture), but Gehry-designed Maggie's Centre in Dundee is Canadian/American architecture)
 * Architecture of Foo (a vagie hyrbid of the two, which roughly corresponds to current usage)
 * Which do we actually want? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:10, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Break it down into smaller parts:
 * Buildings = by location.
 * People = as all people by occupation. Apart from Italians (who worked all over the world and rarely in Italy itself) it's quite straightforward.
 * Styles and trends = not so easy. Regional varieties (i.e. French Rococo and Neoclassicism) are quite simple, but larger pan-European styles (Neoclassical architecture) must be clearly excluded from national/ethnic categorization. The gray area between the two may be contentious - is Beaux-Arts architecture a world phenomenon or a French specialty? NVO (talk) 22:52, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. We also have the "buildings and structures in ..." tree, mostly organized by building function, which is purely based on current political boundaries. That suggests these categories should, where there is a difference, concentrate on architectural style.  But I agree with others this can be a very complicated question.  I suppose for many of the categories above the proposed new names are no more or less ambiguous.  Johnbod (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's true only to some extent that it would make sense for the "architecture" categories to focus on styles. For instance, what about categories like Category:Neo-Byzantine architecture in the United Kingdom? This is a sensible subdivision, both of the neo-Byzantine style category and a category for architecture inside the UK, even though it mostly contains information on specific buildings (although with some style bits too e.g. Bristol Byzantine). This is an example where "architecture in the UK" rather than "British architecture" (which might include British-built neo-Byzantine buildings overseas) would make sense. Similarly it shows that an "architecture in ..." category is not redundant to the "buildings and structures" categories, even if it mostly contains individual buildings in practice. As for buildings of the former British Empire, such as Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (formerly Victoria Terminus, Mumbai), that could be filed under "Category:Gothic Revival architecture in India" (even though it is clearly not natively "Indian" architecture), as well as a subcategory of something like "Category:Architecture of the British Empire", which might distinguish "British" architecture not built within the UK itself. For the "Serbian" architecture outside the modern state, I'm sure that could be dealt with to some extent by historical period too e.g. "Category:Architecture of the Serbian Empire". TheGrappler (talk) 16:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. I do not rule out the proposal altogether, but you have to make distinction between architecture = dead buildings, in which case is situ approach holds true, and architecture = national culture and heritage, which may be scattered all around the world as in the Byzantine example above. I have no idea how both these approaches may be incorporated in a single naming scheme. Right now national/ethnic categorization of architecture is quite liberal and irrational ... Second Empire (architecture) is not related to Category:French architecture (for a reason), it is a third-level sub of Category:British architecture and Category:Architecture of the United Kingdom. However, a dozen or two other nationalities and/or nations can claim it their own too. Are you ready for a Slovak-Hungarian brawl over Gothic Revival? NVO (talk) 22:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps such broad architectural movements that occurred in multiple countries, shouldn't be subcategories of national categories at all. "Gothic Revival architecture in Hungary/Slovakia" though, would give two quite reasonable categories. TheGrappler (talk) 18:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong support for either the "in" or "of" solution, and use of complementary categories for historic architecture - e.g. for "Serbian architecture" that is now found in a neighbouring country, how about Category:Architecture of the Serbian Empire as well as the category for whichever modern country it is currently in? TheGrappler (talk) 15:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Rename mainly because I find it confusing and illogical that the titles of articles nearly always follow the form Architecture of Foo while the categories to describe them follow a different form. I do however agree that there could be exceptions such as Category:Byzantine architecture which is a concept in its own right and, in my opinion, is not always the same as Architecture of the Byzantine Empire. I prefer the of to the in as it is more general. -- Ipigott (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm, our article states "Byzantine architecture is the architecture of the Byzantine Empire." Where exactly is the distinction you are drawing? I'm tempted to think it might just be a linguistic issue (a bit like "Roman architecture" being easier to write than "Architecture of the Roman Republic and Empire") rather than the clear distinction between "architecture of the Goths" (Mausoleum of Theodoric, Palace of Omurtag) and the utterly different "Gothic architecture", but am willing to admit my ignorance! If "Byzantine" - like "Romanesque", "Gothic Revival" or "neo-Byzantine" - is really a style in its own right, then it could be kept as the adjective. But it would then also be valuable (if you're correct that the concept is different) to have a distinct "Architecture of the Byzantine Empire" category too. (Incidentally, having "of" categories would work well for cases like "Architecture of the Goths" where distinguishing them for the adjectival form is important!) TheGrappler (talk) 17:53, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * After further thought, I suppose "Ancient Greek architecture" doesn't work well as "Architecture of Ancient Greece" (in the sense that the important buildings around the Mediterranean would be excluded). And "Architecture of the Ancient Greeks" is something of a mouthful. So "of" is not a cure-all. TheGrappler (talk) 17:57, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Slovenian architecture is not the same as Architecture in Slovenia. Interesting parts of Slovenian architecture are located outside Slovenia now, and Slovenia as a political entity is quite new. The possibility would be to rename the category to Architecture in the Slovene Lands. "It is only since October 29, 1918, when Slovenes declared independence from the Austro-Hungarian Empire and established the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, that Slovenia de facto became a distinctive administrative and political entity. Before that, "Slovene Lands" and not "Slovenia" is the correct term to describe the territory of modern Slovenia and neighbouring areas." --Eleassar my talk 20:49, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose. As above, Serbian architecture for example covers whole Western Balkans; the countries of Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia and Montenegro. Some articles can have both: Architecture in X meaning all architecture in the place/state/region, while X architecture meaning a specific national/ethnic architecture. As the case of Luxembourg, it can only be Architecture of Luxembourg as specific luxembourgian architecture doesnt exist, only French and German architecture. Renaming would not fix your "problem" --


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Category:Play It Again Sam Records albums
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:PIAS Recordings albums. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:27, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Play It Again Sam Records albums to Category:PIAS Recordings albums
 * Nominator's rationale: Per main article, PIAS Recordings —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:10, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. DH85868993 (talk) 01:39, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


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