Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 April 30



Category:Gillig

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Dana boomer (talk) 23:14, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Gillig to Category:Gillig Corporation
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Rename to match main article. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:07, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support. I was thinking the exact same thing, but you beat me to it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 12:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The company refers to itself as Gillig, not Gillig Corporation. The article was moved from Gillig to Gillig Corporation last January without discussion. - Eureka Lott 16:28, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment What do other people call the company? Is there any other use of Gillig?  Why was the article renamed?  Lastly, is using corporation an easy why to help people understand what the article is about incase there is something else called Gillig?
 * Rename. The company name is Gillig Corporation.  Gillig is a last name and without some clarification this category has the potential to be misused.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films whose director won the Best Director Academy Award

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2011 May 18. Dana boomer (talk) 23:16, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Films whose director won the Best Director Academy Award to Category:Best Director Academy Award winning films
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. I find the wording of this category name to be very awkward and unwieldly. Under the theory that shorter is better for category names I believe the rename is superior for being three words shorter and is as clear if not clearer. There are other categories for other awards with a similar construction but rather than nominate all of them I would like to offer this one as a starting point "test" nomination to see what people think about the concept. Harley Hudson (talk) 03:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I've put a note on the Film Project talkpage.  Lugnuts  (talk) 10:00, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand your point about long awkward names, but the reason for the current name is to avoid confusion over whether the film itself won a best director award, which are awarded to the directors. Your proposed rename wrongly implies that the film won the award.  postdlf (talk) 14:48, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That strikes me as a pretty fine hair to split. Harley Hudson (talk) 16:07, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * To expand on this a bit, generally when I see Oscar winning films advertised the copy is something like "Winner of X Academy Awards, including Best Actor, John Doe, Best Director, Jane Smith, and Best Picture." I think people understand that the awards go to the person, and each category like this should be linked to its corresponding category that's actually for the people (in this case Category:Best Director Academy Award winners. Harley Hudson (talk) 17:48, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting point, but advertising motivations are obviously to jack up the numbers, while we're going for maximum precision in our category names, and given our worldwide audience we can't presume what people will understand, nor would that understanding be an excuse for inaccuracy. We still shouldn't tolerate within an article the sentence "Film X won the Best Director Award" even if we're confident that our readers know better.  But let's see what others have to say.  postdlf (talk) 18:14, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Cmt As no one commented on my !vote yet, I've deleted it rather than struck it though. Here's the deal, for me: I agree with Harley that the name is awkward. What's more, it doesn't even make clear that the director needs to have won the award for this film. And so while Postdlf's comments are well taken, I think leaving the name as is is not advisable. But I'll be darned if I can come up with anything better. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I thought about that ambiguity too: The Lost World: Jurassic Park is a "film whose director won the Best Director Academy Award"; it just wasn't won for that film.  The only rename I can think of would be even longer, though more clear:  "Films for which its director won the Best Director Academy Award."  But I see no sign that it's been misused to included every film directed by everyone who won the Best Director Award, and I think that possible ambiguity is even less likely to cause confusion than someone thinking that a film won the award if it's in "Best Director Academy Award winning films," which is just flat-out semantically inaccurate.  19:28, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In fairness, the use of the definite article Films whose director won the Best Director Academy Award vs. Films whose director won a Best Director Academy Award does make it reasonably clear to attentive readers that it's for this particular film, too. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:21, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak support for renaming. Postdlf is of course correct to point out that strict grammar should lead one to think that the film won the award. However, readers with an IQ over 15 are unlikely to be fooled and all things considered I still prefer "Best Director Academy Award winning films" over all options discussed above. Pichpich (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete if it is the director and not the film winning the award, why group films by this category at all?John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Because the director wins for a particular film, and it's a significant fact about a film that the Academy decided that its directing was the best for that year. Really the only Academy Award that films win is the Best Picture Award, and you could say even that one really goes to the film's producer(s).  (which may or may not undercut my point above, but so be it)  postdlf (talk) 03:16, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete entirely, confusing. Neutralitytalk 04:49, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Conditional rename—but please keep the category. --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 23:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.