Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 April 6



Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: St. Louis University

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2A/C2C. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: St. Louis University to Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Saint Louis University
 * Nominator's rationale: This should be renamed to reflect the name of the school, which is "Saint Louis University" and not "St. Louis University". Tavix | Talk  20:59, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scouting in South Korea

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Not renamed. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Scouting in South Korea to Category:Scouting and Guiding in South Korea
 * Nominator's rationale: To expand the category's scope, per the inclusion of Girl Scouts Korea. Also, there are ~20 categories in Category:Scouting and Guiding by country which take the format "Scouting in Foo"—is this deliberate (I noticed that most (all?) contain only Scouting-related articles) or should they, too, be renamed? (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 16:59, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose — There are no Guiding organizations in South Korea. All of the categories were originally Scouting only— those with Guiding were renamed two years ago, but countries without Guiding were not renamed. -—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The lead of Girl Scouts Korea identifies it as a Guiding organization. The principle makes sense for the other countries, though. -- Black Falcon (talk) 21:19, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Most of the article use the term youth organization. See Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts of the USA. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose per User:Gadget850. This was widely discussed two years ago and countries with Girl Scouts rather than Girl Guides were categorized as "Scouting in ..". -- Bduke   (Discussion)  23:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Is that not categorization by a shared name? I confess to having limited knowledge of Scouting and Guiding, so it may just be confusion or misunderstanding on my part, but is a Guiding organization titled "Girl Scouts of Foo" (e.g. Girl Scouts Korea) significantly different from one titled "Girl Guides of Foo" (e.g. Bangladesh Girl Guides Association)? Or, is the description of Girl Scouts Korea as "the national Guiding organization of South Korea" inaccurate? -- Black Falcon (talk) 01:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Some countries use the term Girl Guide and some use the term Girl Scout. Both are considered part of the Scout Movement. Most of the organisations belong to the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts. It seems inappropriate to use the term "Guide" when the organisation does not use it. The description of Girl Scouts Korea as "the national Guiding organization of South Korea" is not inaccurate but it is confusing. It would be better if it read "the national Scouting organization for girls of South Korea", although "Scouting" in this context should still link to Girl Guides, which starts "Girl Guides or Girl Scouts". -- Bduke   (Discussion)  02:43, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clarifying. It still seems a bit odd to me to categorize by an organization's title rather than its function or scope but, again, I admit to not knowing much about the Scout Movement (and I'm sure that there is some nuance I am missing), so I am happy to defer to the judgment of those who do. Please consider my nomination withdrawn. Thanks again, -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:03, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Football Fans

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * football fans


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Millions and millions of famous people will enjoy sports, but there's no need for a category for them. Whatever next, 'Category:People who enjoy breathing oxygen'?! GiantSnowman 14:24, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete – I'm sure this is a reincarnation of something deleted previously. (A different name tho.) Occuli (talk) 15:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * People notable for their fandom are listed in Category:Sports spectators. The one article in the nominated category can be merged into the more general category. - Eureka Lott 18:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete extreme ambiguosity. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 03:54, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Formal semantics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2011 April 28. Dana boomer (talk) 13:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * formal semantics


 * Nominator's rationale: There isn't really a field called "Formal semantics of everything". There are formal semantic approaches in (formal) logic, programming languages, and linguistics. The main article was turned into a disambiguation. The category is too broad to be useful; WP:OC. Tijfo098 (talk) 12:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak keep I get the point but I feel there's still some link between the three topics on the disambiguation page. These topics have developed into meaningful and almost entirely separate subfields of logic, theoretical computer science and linguistics but they have strong common historical roots. I could be convinced to delete this cat but it certainly won't be on the grounds of WP:OC. Pichpich (talk) 18:46, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Wales AMs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Move to names suggested by User:Necrothesp. Necrothesp also suggested two other categories to be renamed; however, neither of these were tagged for renaming, and so they should probably be tagged and have their own discussion (might be eligible for speedy under C2 part B or C, but I'm not sure on this). Dana boomer (talk) 13:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Conservative Wales AMs to Category:Welsh Conservative Party AMs
 * Propose renaming Category:Labour Wales AMs to Category:Welsh Labour AMs
 * Propose renaming Category:Liberal Democrat Wales AMs to Category:Welsh Liberal Democrat AMs
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. I propose renaming these to match the standard formatting for politicians of particular parties. The relevant articles are Welsh Conservative Party, Welsh Labour, and Welsh Liberal Democrats. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Conservative Members of the National Assembly for Wales, Category:Labour Members of the National Assembly for Wales and Category:Liberal Democrat Members of the National Assembly for Wales respectively. Better English, not confusing for people who may not know what AMs are (it primarily means Albert Medal to me), and consistent with Category:Members of the National Assembly for Wales, of which they are subcats, and the article Member of the National Assembly for Wales. Also rename to Category:Plaid Cymru Members of the National Assembly for Wales and Category:Independent Members of the National Assembly for Wales, as well as the other subcats. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm. It's usual to use the party names in category names that correspond to the WP article about the party. "Conservative Members of the National Assembly of Wales" is somewhat ambiguous, because "Conservative" is a party but it could also mean small-c "conservative", and not all conservatives are Conservatives. You'd be looking at "Welsh Conservative Party Members of the National Assembly for Wales", and so forth. It also seems relatively standard to permit abbreviations like this once we get past the top parent level category . See, eg, subcategories of, where "MPs" is commonly used. "MPs" is better known than "AMs", but I'm not sure there would be a principled distinction. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:47, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally I think MPs should be expanded too, but at least it's a well-known term throughout much of the English-speaking world, whereas AMs is not. As to the party names, fair enough on the "Conservative Party" bit (although possibly a little pedantic), but putting "Wales/Welsh" in twice looks a bit like overkill to me, particularly since they're not actually separate parties, but simply the Welsh wings of the UK national parties. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless there is a clear consensus to expand the abbreviation in this one case, I would be inclined to keep using the standard formats for both using party names followed by the appropriate abbreviation for the position. I do know there has been pretty vigorous opposition to expanding the "MPs" in other categories, but as you say some legislator abbreviations are not as well known as these. "MLAs" is also in wide usage in the Canadian and Indian category trees. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:18, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename per Necrothesp for maximum clarity. Tim! (talk) 21:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename per Necrothesp. I didn't know what an AM was until I read the discussion. Snappy (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename per Good Ol'factory . While I understand the rationale for avoiding "AM", which is relatively obscure, titles such as Category:Conservative Members of the National Assembly for Wales and Category:Liberal Democrat Members of the National Assembly for Wales are downright ambiguous, since they could refer either to a political party or an ideology. It is better to have a title that is perhaps obscure but unambiguous, than one that is more common and ambiguous. -- Black Falcon (talk) 16:56, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but in what way is Category:Welsh Liberal Democrat AMs less ambiguous than Category:Liberal Democrat Members of the National Assembly for Wales? Both could refer to a political party or an ideology, but only one unambiguously refers to a member of the National Assembly for Wales. -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You have a point, but at least "Welsh Liberal Democrat" corresponds to a political party (Welsh Liberal Democrats) whereas "Liberal Democrat" alone does not. I would not object to Category:Welsh Liberal Democrat Members of the National Assembly for Wales. -- Black Falcon (talk) 16:43, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * But "Liberal Democrat" does indeed correspond to a political party (Liberal Democrats), of which the Welsh Liberal Democrats are just a wing. Using "Welsh"/"Wales" twice just seems like labouring a point. After all we don't have Category:Welsh Liberal Democrat MPs, just Category:Liberal Democrat (UK) MPs. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:30, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant that "Welsh Liberal Democrats" identifies a particular political party, whereas "Liberal Democrats" can refer to one of several parties (see Liberal Democrat and Liberal Democratic Party), of which the Liberal Democrats (UK) are just one. You appear to be correct, however, regarding our current treatment of similar categories; and, in this context, Category:Liberal Democrat Members of the National Assembly for Wales does seem to be the most appropriate title at this time. So, rename per ... well, you. :) Thanks, -- Black Falcon (talk) 23:06, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Flinders University of South Australia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: self-close. Rename performed by category creator. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:57, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Flinders University of South Australia to Category:Flinders University
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. The main article is Flinders University, and the subcategories are and . I suggest renaming this category to match. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * As you wish. I just called it by its official name, but as "no-one else" seems to, there seems little point to it being different. Discussion closed. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:03, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Malayalam movies with non-Malayalam Title

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 18:45, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Malayalam movies with non-Malayalam Title to Category:Malayalam-language films
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. This appears to be a category for Malayalam-language films that have a title that uses English-language words (or at least "non-Malayalam"-language words). This seems trivial to me, and we generally categorize films by their language, not by what language is or is not used in their titles. I suggest upmerging it to its parent. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:09, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: I don't know whether this category is against general wikipedia policy. But what I can say is that the category, being a collection of films with a common feature, is really useful. And I strongly oppose merging it with any other category. -- Arfaz (talk) 16:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * We do generally avoid categorizing subjects by characteristics of the name alone. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:56, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think this category may not violate the Wikipedia Policy regarding same or shared name as they do not share same name but only a common trait. Films are generally categorised in every possible way. Refer Category:Films. Films have been categorised based on genre, topic, date source, director, producer, studio and also settings, shooting location, source, city of location, debut, type of technology used etc. I propose retaining this category. Sarvagyana guru (talk) 17:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The guideline extends also to categorization "by characteristics of the name rather than the subject itself". Genre, topic, director, producer, setting, shooting location, technology used, and so on, all are characteristics of the films themselves, not just of their titles. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge. The category groups films based on a characteristic of the films' titles, rather than of the films themselves. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge. We don't categorize films by shared characteristics of their names.--Mike Selinker (talk) 02:32, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Montana State Legislature

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Montana State Legislature to Category:Montana Legislature
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. The main article is at Montana Legislature. I suggest renaming the category to match. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parliament of Syria

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Parliament of Syria to Category:People's Council of Syria
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. Article was recently moved to People's Council of Syria; I suggest renaming the category to match. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:49, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


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Babyface (musician)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2C per convention of Category:Babyface (musician). Timrollpickering (talk) 15:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming
 * Category:Babyface albums to Category:Babyface (musician) albums
 * Category:Babyface songs to Category:Babyface (musician) songs
 * Category:Songs written by Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds to Category:Songs written by Babyface (musician)
 * Category:Songs produced by Babyface to Category:Songs produced by Babyface (musician)
 * Nominator's rationale: For consistency with the main article and category, Babyface (musician) and Category:Babyface (musician). Note also that "Babyface" was the name of two bands, so adding the parenthetical disambiguator helps to avoid confusion between the musician and the musical groups. -- Black Falcon (talk) 06:14, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Rename per clarity and consistency. Occuli (talk) 08:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename. The article name has changed since I created the category. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Grand Theft Auto

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Grand Theft Auto (series). Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Grand Theft Auto to Category:Grand Theft Auto (videogame series)
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. This is ambiguously named. Not only is there a crime commonly known by this title, meaning that any articles on the crime of "grand theft auto" can be reasonably categorized here, there is also a famous movie by this title. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 03:24, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Alt. rename to Category:Grand Theft Auto (series) per the main article, Grand Theft Auto (series). The nominator is correct that the current title is ambiguous—see Grand Theft Auto (disambiguation). -- Black Falcon (talk) 06:19, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Native American film directors

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete as there's nothing left in the category to merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Native American film directors to Category:Native American filmmakers
 * Nominator's rationale: Given the indie/auteur nature of much of Native American film, it seems as if all of the artists fall under the broader banner of "filmmakers," who direct as well as producer, write, etc.. Indeed, I had moved Alanis Obomsawin, who also self-produces, leaving only one article left in the source category, who also handles filmmaking duties beyond just directing. I've just added the target category as a parent: shall we upmerge until such time as we have Native American film directors who are not groupable as filmmakers? I've created several Indigenous filmmaker categories, and this is the only one where we have a director/filmmaker split. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Oops, I just noticed that the sole remaining article in the source category Shirley Cheechoo is mis-categorized. She is a Cree from Eastmain, Quebec and so is not Native American, but rather First Nations. I've removed Category:Native American film directors in favour of Category:First Nations filmmakers; now the source cat is empty. I did not do this intentionally, I assure you. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.