Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 November 12



Category:Upper Prospect Multiple Resource Area

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:30, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * upper prospect multiple resource area


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Per numerous CfDs over the past few months, being in a NRHP district is not defining. The district's navbox template provides better navigation. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:03, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * delete this category, but make sure all its articles are in Category:Buildings and structures in Cleveland, Ohio or one of its other subcategories (not all are there now). Hmains (talk) 21:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I only found one missing, and that was fixed. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Feminist television series

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * feminist television series


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete Too broad, and not easily definable. It appears that if the show has a female lead, it is listed. Kim Possible is the only show I've seen, and I hardly consider that a feminist tv series C T J F 8 3  22:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. Inclusion is undefined, but there is no article on feminist television and thus too dependent on individual interpretation and on individual definitions of "feminist." On one extreme, any show with a female protagonist could qualify, on the other, only those featuring some sapphic revolutionary would. Of all the contents of Category:Feminist media, which like all media categories gets crufty over time (Legally Blonde? Fanny Hill?), I think this category is the most tenuous.- choster (talk) 00:37, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * As someone who's done a bit of work in the feminist film/women's film area, I agree the category contents underscore how tenuous and subjective the criteria seem to be. I'd guess that a great many post-Lucy shows starring women have made at least some effort to present their female figures as empowered figures (as well they should). What would the dividing line or cut off be to not be included, I wonder? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please help. There are alot of great television series around the world that can be categorized as feminist television series. I only can pick a few which I have the knowledge of.  As a guy who likes watching shows of strong female protaganists like Sarah Connor and Buffy Summers, instead of something that people like Marilyn Monroes typicaly protrays, I urges everyone to make contributions of what I've started.  Thanks.  Please help of categorizing number of television series which has feminist theme.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 02:29, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You need reliable 3rd party sources saying the shows are feminist. A female lead does not equal feminist. C T J F 8 3  03:20, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That why I need everyone's help. I even tempted to put it on Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, but worries that someone might disagree.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 05:27, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'd support this category if the articles made some explicit reference to their feminist credentials or offered an obviously feminist critique of something, but I don't yet see that in these articles. --Northernhenge (talk) 19:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete entries are not feminist tv series and as aboveCurb Chain (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete entirely subjective as the current population attempts demonstrate. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:30, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - completely subjective/OR category. Buffy, feminist? Not in my book and therein lies the problem. – ukexpat (talk) 18:08, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wind turbines on public display

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.--Mike Selinker (talk) 23:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * wind turbines on public display


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. How many things can be said about why this should be deleted? Public display is really ambiguous here.  How many wind turbines are not viewable from the surrounding areas?  Then from the article, wind farms can be included if they have a visitors center and attract tourists.  While there many be some type of category here, this is not it.  Delete and when a good clear concise name and objective introduction is available create that category. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:32, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak rename to Category:Wind turbines with visitor centres. --Northernhenge (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How many wind turbines have visitor centers? Even you if went with Category:Wind farms with visitor centers, it is far from clear that this intersection would make either the wind farm or the visitors center notable.  I see this as a trivial intersection, so it is not a supportable alternative.  Also, that introduces the center v centre spelling problem. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:44, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "...visitor facilities" would deal with the spelling issue, but I take your point. I wonder if the underlying issue is the purpose of the windfarm. It it there to generate a few megawatts, or is it there to promote the idea of windfarms? I can feel this drifting off the point though! --Northernhenge (talk) 23:05, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I find this article in the category as a good reason to delete as not defining. How does a 2.5Kw wind generator on a 10 story building make either defining? Vegaswikian (talk) 06:51, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

More branches of mathematics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge Category:Articles on areas of mathematics to Category:Fields of mathematics and merge Category:Articles on branches of mathematical analysis to Category:Mathematical analysis. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:28, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * articles on areas of mathematics


 * articles on branches of mathematical analysis


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Forks of (1) Category:Subdivisions of mathematics (subject to a  rename discussion, although there is one !vote for delete) and (2) Category:Branches of mathematical analysis (subject to a deletion discussion) and  Category:Mathematical analysis. — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 12:19, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Upmerge Category:Articles on areas of mathematics to Category:Subdivisions of mathematics, an excellent place for articles about areas/subdivisions/fields of mathematics; upmerge Category:Articles on branches of mathematical analysis to Category:Mathematical analysis, an excellent place for articles about mathematical analysis. Occuli (talk) 14:33, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per my comments on Category:Subdivisions of mathematics. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Upmerge both as per Occuli: all content on WP is in an article, so prepending 'Articles on...' is pointless: as such with this removed they simply duplicate other categories.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 03:48, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note Category:Subdivisions of mathematics was moved to Category:Fields of mathematics, and Category:Branches of mathematical analysis was upmerged to Category:Mathematical analysis, even if some of them should have been in Category:Fields of mathematics. — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 04:11, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Alternatives to conventional railways

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. This is defining in the negative, when the contents are adequately defined by positive categories.--Mike Selinker (talk) 23:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * alternatives to conventional railways


 * Nominator's rationale: This category has been around uncontested since 2006 but I do think it's an example of WP:OC, or given the vague use of "alternatives", WP:OC. The description states that it is for "technologies that are like railways in that vehicles move along fixed structures that guide their movements (and typically restrict it to either backwards or forwards), but which differ from conventional railways in that the vehicles do not rest on steel wheels that roll along two parallel rails." The criteria seems highly subjective. A system as commonplace as SkyTrain (Vancouver) is sufficiently "alternative," apparently because it's of one of the Category:Linear motor metros, although it runs on rails and type of propulsion system isn't mentioned in the cat description. It includes articles like Elevated railway, even though such lines are commonplace. It includes People mover, though the parent article states that there is "no clear cut distinction" between many automated people mover systems and an automated mass transit rail system deemed conventional. And in terms of things excluded, a trolleybus can be just as much an alternative to conventional rail, but cannot be included here, I suppose, because the guided route isn't sufficiently "fixed"? In researching this nom, I expected to find similar categories such as Category:Alternative vehicles but did not, and perhaps that's because "alternative" is such a slippery term in the changing world of transportation technology. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 07:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I've placed a note at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains. I'm sure there'll be some strong views, one way or another, about the merits of this category and my nomination. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep but clean up slightly. As far as I remember, I created the category as part of an effort to clean up the parent category which had become unnavigable. If the category is deleted, then what are we going to do with its content? Simply dumping it into Category:Rail transport is not going to be productive, but if you have an alternative organization principle I'd be prepared to listen. I agree that SkyTrain (Vancouver) and Elevated railway do not belong there, but there are less intrusive ways to fix that problem than nuking the category. Finally I don't see what you find "subjective" in the description. It's not quite a model of elegance, but its problem is rather that it is non-intuitive because how hard it tries to set forth objective criteria for inclusion. –Henning Makholm (talk) 17:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * IMO, the contents would be adequately categorized, even without this cat. So I don't see the need for an alternative principle. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:51, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, the reason why I'd applied "subjective" to the discussion was that I felt there were some very subjective choices being made (i.e. Skytrain and others) as to what is an "alternative" to "conventional" rail.... Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NON-DEFINING Curb Chain (talk) 23:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. We generally don't engage in categorization such as this. We don't categorize under, for instance. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename but purge. These are about non edge-rail railways.  Category:Non-convenional railways or Category:Unconventional railways or Category:Non edge-rail railways might be possibilities.  These would also need to pick up (historic) plateways.  I do not like the word "alternative", but all seem to be linked by not having the standard edge-rails.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:32, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * please relist**


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Theatres associated with Gilbert and/or Sullivan

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:47, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * theatres associated with gilbert and/or sullivan


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Associated is ambiguous. If you get past that we have the ever popular and/or.  Vegaswikian (talk) 05:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete – this is analogous to 'performer by performance' ('venue by production'). Adelphi Theatre is associated by mention with a multitude of people (although, sadly, neither Gilbert nor Sullivan is mentioned). Occuli (talk) 16:22, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete While we do have Category:Places associated with people, this one really does seem to be WP:OC. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:27, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete As all of the above and b/c the two are not related closely.Curb Chain (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aboriginal universities and colleges

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Indigenous universities and colleges in North America. I'll leave it to other editors to divide into U.S. and Canada categories if that's desired. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:25, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Aboriginal universities and colleges to or
 * Nominator's rationale: "Aboriginal", in common parlance, is Australian; it's close to offensive in the United States. If people insist, we can make that two categories to acknowledge the Canadian term "First Nations". Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 04:19, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Quick comment: at first glance, I find "tribally controlled" way more offensive than "aboriginal" in part because it almost makes it sound like that control is illegitimate (as in "mafia-controlled") Pichpich (talk) 14:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No. That's actually the term used by the institutions themselves. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 00:11, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad, sorry. Pichpich (talk) 01:14, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In Canada, the term "aboriginal" is quite common (and constitutionally, the official term), but extends beyond First Nations to include Metis and Inuit, and I see no reason to exclude those groups from this category. While technically accurate, "Native American" is rarely if ever used to describe Canadian First Nations, as it tends to describe Native Americans in the United States. "Tribe" and "Tribal" are quite acceptable in the United States, but generally considered offensive in Canada. Moreover, many of these schools are not controlled by any tribe/nation. In the past, Wikipedia has solved this problem by using the term "Indigenous" which is considered to be inoffensive and inclusive. Can I suggest Category:Indigenous universities and colleges or Category:North American Indigenous universities and colleges if you want to restrict it geographically? - TheMightyQuill (talk) 18:51, 26 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jafeluv (talk) 02:28, 12 November 2011 (UTC)




 * Comments – I would suggest Category:Indigenous universities and colleges in North America, split into Category:Indigenous universities and colleges in the United States (or suitable US name) and Category:Indigenous universities and colleges in Canada (or suitable Canada name). (In most countries all universities and colleges are indigenous.) Occuli (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree with nom. there were no colleges or universities at first contact in the Americas or Australia, so none are "aboriginal" or "indigenous" in the sense of belonging to pre-contact culture - which also makes Occuli's suggestions inapt as well. What makes them in a category is the tribal or native people's control. But, applying the category in the Americas outside of US & Canada, where recognition of what's tribal/native and what's not is a hodgepodge will be complex. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:11, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename per Occuli There was no pre-contact Category:Indigenous film either, nor is Category:Indigenous culture defined solely by what was in place, centuries ago. The terms Aboriginal and indigenous are not limited to pre-contact conditions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:16, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record, the noun "Aborigine" is uniquely Australian (and deprecated, at that), but the adjective "aboriginal" is used internationally — frex, it's quite extensively used in the names of Canadian institutions, such as Aboriginal Voices and Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, which are owned and operated by indigenous peoples themselves. For one thing, there are few other non-offensive terms which are properly inclusive of the First Nations and the Inuit and the Métis; almost any other term you can come up with excludes at least one of those groups. If the term is considered offensive in the United States, then that's certainly a problem that needs to be addressed — but just for the record, that isn't the situation in Canada. That said, "Native American" is not an appropriate solution, for the reason that it's not recognized anywhere outside of the United States as being inclusive of the Canadian nations; using "Native American and First Nations" would exclude Akitsiraq, since "First Nations" doesn't include the Inuit. Accordingly, I'd have to favour Occuli's suggestion; in most cases something involving the word "indigenous" has been the solution used to resolve naming disputes that had to accomodate native/aboriginal-related differences in terminology between Canada and the United States. And Shawn is correct that "belonging to pre-contact culture" is not a precondition of the term; it covers belonging to [Aboriginal/indigenous/First Nations/Native American/whatever] culture at any time in history. Rename per Occuli's suggestion. Bearcat (talk) 23:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.