Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 August 14



Category:Bird species new to science

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:19, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Bird species new to science to Category:Birds Category:Animals by year of formal description
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT that only contains two lists (one of new species described since 1963, the other those described since 2000), not articles on species recenly described themselves - which is (a) what the category implies it contains, and (b) would be a "modern" category (is a bird discovered in 1963 still "new to science" in 2012)? WP:OC. There is likely a better target category for the merge so I'm open to suggestions. The Bushranger One ping only 22:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I don't remember creating this category but it was probably as a nascent parent category for subcats on the centuries or decades the birds were first formally described. I agree that it does not seem very useful as is and have no objection to the proposal. Maias (talk) 00:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: A possible merge destination is Category:Animals by year of formal description. Maias (talk) 00:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Listify - Category:Animals by year of formal description is the right category tree (thanks User:Maias). A list of "recently discovered species" would be of interest but I'm not quite sure how to do it.  Can we do a "recently ..." or "last ten years" list and just rigidly police it?  Or should we just have lists that are named by decade -- i.e., 2000-2010, 2010-2020 ...? --Lquilter (talk) 02:19, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Erm...there's nothing here to listify, as the contents of the category are already only two lists. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree with Category:Animals by year of formal description as target, changed the header accordingly. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. There is no reason to seperate out birds specifically.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mayors of Washburn, Wisconsin

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. The Bushranger One ping only 00:19, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mayors of Washburn, Wisconsin to Category:People from Washburn, Wisconsin
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Category has only one entry. Small town mayors are usually not notable. ...William 14:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge we only create a mayor category for a place when we have several mayors to put in it. I do not know the minimum but it is greater than 1.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge both as proosed and to, which is an other relevant parent cateogry. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Images of 4minute

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2C. Timrollpickering (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Images of 4minute to Category:4Minute album covers
 * Nominator's rationale: More appropriate name, these images are album cover, also to harmonize with Category:Girls' Generation album covers, Category:Super Junior album covers, etc.. Morning Sunshine (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People from small towns in Florida

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 10:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from High Springs, Florida to Category:People from Alachua County, Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People from Carrabelle, Florida to Category:People from Franklin County, Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People from Trenton, Florida to Category:People from Gilchrist County, Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People from Groveland, Florida to Category:People from Lake County, Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People from Umatilla, Florida to Category:People from Lake County, Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People from Bristol, Florida to Category:People from Liberty County, Florida
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCATs from small towns with little chance of expansion. The Bushranger One ping only 01:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Oculi (talk) 11:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom....William 14:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People by town in Alabama

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. There appears to be an emerging consensus to combine each pair of "people by town" and "people by city" container categories for each state into a single "people by populated place in Foo state" category. However, the city categories have not been included in this discussion, so I am closing this discussion as "no consensus" without prejudice to an immediate new group nomination to upmerge both sets to the appropriate subcats of Category:People by populated place in the United States by state. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:08, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Alabama to Category:People by city in Alabama
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Arizona to Category:People by city in Arizona
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Arkansas to Category:People by city in Arkansas
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Colorado to Category:People by city in Colorado
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Connecticut to Category:People by city in Connecticut
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Delaware to Category:People by city in Delaware
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Florida to Category:People by city in Florida
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Illinois to Category:People by city in Illinois
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Indiana to Category:People by city in Indiana
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Louisiana to Category:People by city in Louisiana
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Maine to Category:People by city in Maine
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Maryland to Category:People by city in Maryland
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Massachusetts to Category:People by city in Massachusetts
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Mississippi to Category:People by city in Mississippi
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Montana to Category:People by city in Montana
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in New Hampshire to Category:People by city in New Hampshire
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in New Jersey to Category:People by city in New Jersey
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in New York to Category:People by city in New York
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in North Carolina to Category:People by city in North Carolina
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Oklahoma to Category:People by city in Oklahoma
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Pennsylvania to Category:People by city in Pennsylvania
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Rhode Island to Category:People by city in Rhode Island
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in South Carolina to Category:People by city in South Carolina
 * Propose deleting Category:People by town in South Dakota (currently tagged for C1)
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Tennessee to Category:People by city in Tennessee
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Texas to Category:People by city in Texas
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Utah to Category:People by city in Utah
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Vermont to Category:People by city in Vermont
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in West Virginia to Category:People by city in West Virginia
 * Propose merging Category:People by town in Wyoming to Category:People by city in Wyoming
 * Nominator's rationale: Set of small categories that (badly) duplicate the People by city in Foo tree. As there is no Category:People by town in the United States by state, but rather the tree is at Category:People by city in the United States by state, and it seems that "city" is the 'generic' term used for "People by...", these should be merged to the by-city categories. Note that Category:People by town in Virginia was merged to Category:People by city in Virginia in this CfD in March. The Bushranger One ping only 00:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge – as the nom says. Category:People from Anderson, Alabama is ridiculous anyway as the place has less than 400 inhabitants. Oculi (talk) 11:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Side note: the sole entry in the "People from Anderson, Alabama" category doesn't make it clear whether he's actually from Anderson, Lauderdale County, Alabama or the even smaller Anderson, Etowah County, Alabama even though the category is a subcat of "People from Lauderdale County". (They're not neighboring counties.) - Dravecky (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is a shotgun nomination that attempts to do several different things at once, while ignoring a wide range of side effects. The biggest issue is the presumption that "city" means "place", and that "town" and "city" are synonymous, neither of which are true. That 31 of 50 states have such a category demonstrates that much of the issue here could be addressed by simply creating the Category:People by town in the United States by state. Alansohn (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The vast majority of which only have 1-3 entries per subcat. This "tree" was the result of somebody creating a whole bunch of cateories without bothering to first check if proper categories already existed (which they do - the targets). Now, perhaps changing the tree to "People by city or town in Foo" might be in order - but either way we need one tree here, not two. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That the thought is that a superior choice for a name might be "People by city or town in Foo" only demonstrates that this needs to be thought out far better, as this could also be "People by city or town or township or village or boro in Foo" or maybe "People by place in Foo". It is clear that "city" is not adequate to capture what is needed here. Alansohn (talk) 15:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe, at all, that it's a "superior choice for a name". I do, however, believe that it could work as a compromise. And for the record, the preferred phrasing isn't "city or town or..." but rather "populated place". - The Bushranger One ping only 19:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose proposal, per Alansohn. I think, however, that some sort of "People from Foo by place" may be appropriate, but this needs a wider discussion than the categories listed in this CFD. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: Per the above discussion, should these be merged with the targets renamed to Category:People by populated place in Foo format? - The Bushranger One ping only 23:29, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * As much as I hate this suggestion, it may well be the only reasonable alternative to a host of problems. If nothing else, it could end the discussions over what is or is not a city.  It would also no longer artificially restrict the by city categories to cities but expand them to cover all types of populated places.  Having said that, this is far from problem free.  I would support this approach only if this would be used to eliminate the lower level breakouts. Adding this and keeping by city does not really help the problem. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It'd replace/be renamed from "city"; I don't like it either but it seems to be the best way to avoid seperate "People by town in Foo" "People by village in Foo" "People by two yurts and a camel in Foo" categories based on the comments above... - The Bushranger One ping only 02:33, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * create/merge/etc Create a category 'people by populated place in foo-state' for each state as well as category Category:People by populated place in the United States supercategory to include the 50 categories so created. Then merge all the 'people by town in foo-date' 'people by etc in foo-state' categories to the the appropriate 'people by populated place in foo-state' categories while retaining 'people by city in foo-state' as a sub-category.  There are enough 'by city' categories in all but the thinly populated states to justify this.  Several years ago, WP did choose to use 'populated place' as generic for cities, towns, villages, etc so this is a natural extension to include people.  Hmains (talk) 04:28, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Further in states where there are many town (also known as township) and well populated people categories such as Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, the town subcategory for that state would also be retained. Hmains (talk) 04:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 'Populated place' would replace by-city, by-town, etc. Doing otherwise would be WP:OC. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:OC is in the eye of the beholder. Look at the number of city subcategories involved instead of pushing abstract theory.   Anything that would merge city and non-city subjects in a way that is not done in the tree Category:Populated places in the United States by state should not be given consideration at all. Hmains (talk) 04:56, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Whether a place is a city, town, village, township, or spacecraft from Mars has no relevance on whether or not someone is notable for being from there. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:06, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This category tree is not about whether people are notable by being from a certain place. This tree is about notable people, determined by their having WP articles saying so, and then where they happen to have come from (place) or are living, which has little/nothing to do with their notability.  Hmains (talk) 22:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But is the type of place significant? If someone comes from a city of 2,000 is that the same as coming from a city of 10,000,000?  Is that different from coming from an unincorporated place with a population of 300,000 or a CDP of 50,000?  Vegaswikian (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I did not say "notable by being from a certain place". I said notable for being from a certain place. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No difference in fact. Hmains (talk) 23:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Do no merge for the reasons outlined in the above discussion. I will create a category tree Category:People by populated place in the United States or something like that and see what things look like then. Hmains (talk) 23:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * When that tree is created, what happens to the above categories? If they will be merged into the new naming, than all is well and good.  Given that I see no reason to keep the current breakout, Support the merge proposed as a step towards this cleanup. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally dislike the "populated places" construction, but I'll support a merge of all town/city/village people categories into people by populated place in foo, as having one category with a meh name is better than having two or three categories that essentially cover the same thing by different names. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * most of the town categories are adquately populated (and no reason to think they will diminish for any factual reason) and there is no reason to merge to the adquately populated city categories. They also need to be made children of the applicable 'cities in foo' and 'towns in foo' categories for each state where they belong--something which is now missing. Hmains (talk) 02:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point - both 'City' and 'Town' should be merged to 'Populated Place'. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am missing nothing. They are not merged in their populated places categories becauase they are different types of legal entities in the United States.  They are sibling childen of approrpiate higher categories.  No difference here at all. Hmains (talk) 04:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Except we don't need People by Populated Place > People by City/Town/Village. Just People by Populated Place. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge to schema Category:People by populated place in x. The difference between towns and cities is a state by state thing, other states have boroughs, townships and villages that might also come up.  It gets even more complicated because over time a specific place may have multiple legal existences, especially if it is in New Jersey.  Populated place is a good catch all term, that can work here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:28, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just so it's clear in the mess above, this is what I support now. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:37, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * cmt Category:People by populated place in the United States and its subcats which I created and populated is in place as a full and balanced solution to this category structure; no further changes are needed at this point. This involves more than just cities and towns, by the way.  Hmains (talk) 16:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge to Cat:People by populated place ..., because of the regional differences in the meanings of towns, cities, villages, parishes, etc. --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:24, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.