Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 27



Category:Songs from Back to the Future

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:37, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting songs from back to the future


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Except for 3 original recordings, none of these songs are defining as a song from Back to the Future (no matter how memorable for some). "The Power of Love", "Back in Time" and "Doubleback" can be upmerged to the parents but the others don't need to be in these categories as non-defining. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 23:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Listify an article on List of songs from the Back to the Future franchise would link properly, and explain which are original songs and which aren't. -- 70.24.250.110 (talk) 02:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete I would think Back to the Future: Music from the Motion Picture Soundtrack, Back to the Future Part II: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, and yes, Back to the Future Part III: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack should offer plenty of space to write about music from the franchise. Categorizing songs by soundtracks invariably leads to clutter; is it really notable that "I Want Candy" was on the soundtrack for Bio-Dome?- choster (talk) 03:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete songs should not be categorized as having appeared in a movie when they were written and recorded 30+ years before the movie was released.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:15, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Even though I love, "Earth Angel". Benkenobi18 (talk) 20:11, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Listify as per 70.24.250.110. --Andrewaskew (talk) 23:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition to a section within Back to the Future, we have no fewer than three articles on the subject. What is the point of adding yet another list on the same matter?- choster (talk) 05:14, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. At what point does WHERE a song is played and/or performed become notable? There is a reasonable argument that a list of the songs performed can be added to the main article, but seriously folks, what use a separate article or category? --Richhoncho (talk) 13:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I would posit the connection is notable if the songs were explicitly written to be used in the movie. That is what is going on with the two parent trap songs we have under discussion elsewhere, but that is not what is going on here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Another example of a song that might be wroth categorizing by its link to a film would be Somewhere Out There (James Horner song) since it was written for the 1986 film An American Tale. However since we do not have any category related to the film to put it in, we don't do so.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * we have Category:Songs from musicals which has a lot of musical specific sub-cats, but there the connection of the song to the musical in question is usually one of creation for use in the musical. I would support removal of any song in that category that did not originate in a musical.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Response to JPL. This was why I used the words "WHERE performed" - specifically to avoid including songs written or performed FOR... Other things I nearly wrote came under WP:BEANS--Richhoncho (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Muppets

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:The Muppets. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Muppets to Category:The Muppets (franchise)
 * Nominator's rationale: The former name is vague and does not directly connect itself to what it is attempting to categorize which are articles relating to The Muppets franchise. ~ Jedi94  ( talk ) 23:28, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. A muppet is an "an idiotic or incompetent person" so there is potential for all sorts of embarrassment if left as it is. --86.40.98.208 (talk) 23:43, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * rename to Category:The Muppets as the "franchise" qualifier is unnecessary. Mangoe (talk) 00:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:The Muppets to match the article name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:16, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename as per John Pack Lambert. --Andrewaskew (talk) 23:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename "The Muppets" per my esteemed colleagues whose floppy felt bodies are dangling just above these words.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:13, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename to use The Muppets per (this lengthy link): Naming_conventions_%28definite_and_indefinite_articles_at_beginning_of_name%29 - jc37 06:24, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with renaming it to simply Category:The Muppets as per everything stated above. ~ Jedi94  ( talk ) 00:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Culture by city

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all, with the Irish one becoming Category:Culture by city in Ireland.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:43, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Spanish culture by city

 * Propose renaming Category:Spanish culture by city to Category:Culture by city in Spain
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:52, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: No Spanish culture in Latin America or France. Instead there could be English culture in Barcelona. All the cities here are in Spain. This is a by country category. ChemTerm (talk) 20:48, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. If we need a more broad Spanish culture by city again someday we can recreate it at that time. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename not about Spanish culture found throughout the former Colonial Empire's cities -- 70.24.250.110 (talk) 01:59, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename There are enough expatriate Spanish communities from the Franco era alone to make it too easy to misuse this category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Reanme but I think Category:Culture in Spain by city would be better. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:17, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Irish culture by city

 * Propose renaming Category:Irish culture by city to Category:Culture by city in the Republic of Ireland
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: No Belfast here. No Irish culture in Canada. But in turn there can be Polish culture inside Culture in Dublin (city). ChemTerm (talk) 20:41, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. If we need a more broad Irish culture by city again someday we can recreate it at that time. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. I would be equally OK with calling the category Category:Culture by city in Ireland.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:19, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Culture by city in Ireland to facilitate the likes of Derry, Belfast and others. --86.40.205.41 (talk) 05:07, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * REname to Category:Culture in Ireland by city, a better name. Belfast is Northern Ireland, not the Repblic.  This is a case where an all-Ireland category seems appropriate.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Culture by city in Ireland, to avoid changing the scope of the category. I would support creating Category:Culture by city in the Republic of Ireland as a subcat, as per the wider pattern of being a subcat of . -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:46, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Munich culture

 * Propose renaming Category:Munich culture to Category:Culture in Munich
 * Nominator's rationale: Siblings in Category:German culture by city use mostly "Culture in Foo".ChemTerm (talk) 20:08, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:50, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Hamburg culture

 * Propose renaming Category:Hamburg culture to Category:Culture in Hamburg
 * Nominator's rationale: Siblings in Category:German culture by city use mostly "Culture in Foo".ChemTerm (talk) 20:07, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. The in form seems best.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Berlin culture

 * Propose renaming Category:Berlin culture to Category:Culture in Berlin
 * Nominator's rationale: Main article is named so, and siblings in Category:German culture by cityuse mostly "Culture in Foo". ChemTerm (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:50, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Italian culture by city

 * Propose renaming Category:Italian culture by city to Category:Culture by city in Italy
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: C2C Category:Categories by city in Italy. 1) The category does not include Italian culture outside Italy. 2) The subcategories do not restrict the topic to Italian culture, there are simply Culture in Foo. ChemTerm (talk) 19:20, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem here is that most of the other sibling categories in are named in the current format rather than the proposed one. So unless you'd like to propose that theyall be renamed in the proposed format instead, we're left with the question of which parent should take precedence over the other one — and normally the naming convention from a topic tree (i.e. "Culture by nationality and city") takes precedence over a "Categories by city in country" tree in determining the correct format for subcategory names. If you'd like to propose a mass renaming of all the "Culture by nationality and city" subcategories, I would support that, as it reduces potential ambiguity about what's intended for the exact reason that you describe — but if you want to treat this particular one inisolation, then I have to oppose on the grounds that  takes "C2C" precedence over Category:Categories by city in Italy. Bearcat (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The content is what matters. Not C2C Csxyz. The content is not Italian exclusively (Culture in Rome can have Turkish culture in Rome) nor inclusively (No single content of Italian culture in Canada).ChemTerm (talk) 19:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The exact same argument is equally true of every single subcategory of . Which is why you need to either leave this one alone or propose that they all be renamed — the ambiguity you mention is not unique to the Italian category alone. Bearcat (talk) 20:00, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you know how to propose them all with ONE edit, please tell. And 'BTW I don't have to do anything. I could also say, you have to ... but I don't. ChemTerm (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me make this clear: it is more important that this category be named consistently with its sibling subcategories in than that it be named consistently with its sibling subcategories Category:Categories by city in Italy. That's the crux of my objection here, but I also clarified that since I do agree with the fundamental reasoning behind your proposal, I wouldsupport a renaming proposal that dealt with them all — but the argument is not unique to Italy alone, so I cannot support a nomination which deals only with this category while leaving all of the others alone. And the main page at WP:CFD already explains quite clearly how to propose a batch nomination that applies to multiple categories at once, so there's nothing for me to explain since the information is already available to you. Bearcat (talk) 20:12, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The main page does not show how to do it with ONE edit. To oppose fixing an error because the error exists elsewhere is meant as a JOKE, right? If you like consistency more than correctness then go and propose renaming the others. ChemTerm (talk) 20:17, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There's no way to do it "with ONE edit" — and you don't particularly have any prerogative to simplyrefuse to do it just because it's not possible to do it "with ONE edit", either. If you want the thing to be done, then the onus is on you to follow the proper procedure to get it done — you don't get to take shortcuts just because the process is a bit more complicated than you'd like it to be, or to demand that other people do the work for you. Bearcat (talk) 20:24, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you are a clown. Oppose a fix. WP:ILIKE I rather prefer consistent application of the error everywhere. ChemTerm (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Firstly, you're misinterpreting if you think "Oppose a fix. WP:ILIKE I rather prefer consistent application of the error everywhere" has anything to do with what I said. And secondly, between this conversation and the fact that instead of following proper process you've spent a big chunk of today already jumping the gun to create a bunch of new categories that you first proposed in a renaming discussion justyesterday, you're acting like an entitled brat who's cruising for an WP:RFC if you don't start following the rules. Bearcat (talk) 20:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And thirdly: I wish you would go and play RFC with your admins instead of Opposing fixes on joky grounds. ChemTerm (talk) 20:45, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Saying "this category is not an isolated case, you need to fix them all", when you've proposed this as an isolated case that's somehow subject to different considerations than its siblings, is not the same thing as "opposing" a fix — especially given that I specifically pointed out that I wouldsupport a proper nomination that dealt with the whole tree instead of singling this one out as an isolated case. If that's not clear to you, that isn't my problem. Bearcat (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Each error can be fixed on its own. I don't need to look at the others, to see that this one is buggy. ChemTerm (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you do need to look at the others. They're all subject to the same considerations, so if there's a "bug" then you need to propose them as a group so that the "bug" can be fixed across the board. You do realize that it's taking you more time and effort to start a separate individual discussion for each category than it would to batch them together from the start, right? Bearcat(talk) 21:01, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you do need to look at the others. Finally you got it! ChemTerm(talk) 21:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Um, I didn't "finally" get anything; this is exactly what I've been saying from the start, and you're the one who was saying you didn't have to. Bearcat (talk) 21:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Bearcat, ChemTerm did nominate many others. True, they weren't all put together in one nom.  And true, ChemTerm is being neddlessly snippy.  But the intension is good.  ChemTerm, learn some manners, you'll catch more flies with honey.  PS I support the rename. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 19:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * For the record, he only started nominating any of the others after I forced his hand via this discussion — and as of right now, as far as I can tell, he still hasn't actually nominated them all.Bearcat (talk) 20:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. If we need a more broad Italian culture by city again someday we can recreate it at that time. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Bearcat is right. The correct procedure is to wait for a decision at cfd before depopulatingCategory:Culture by nationality and city with out-of-process edits such asone. Oculi (talk) 00:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * rename this doesn't cover Little Italies across the globe. --70.24.250.110 (talk) 02:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename we have category:Italians in New York City which is basically a culture category, so the current name is less than clear. Also, I not only does Italy have large immigrant communities in some parts, but Sicilians and some other sub-groups in Italy are not "Italian" by all definitions, so I could see all sorts of problems with the current cat.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename but to Category:Culture in Italy by city, better name. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Polish culture by city

 * Propose renaming Category:Polish culture by city to Category:Culture by city in Poland
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: This is about culture in cities of Poland. 1) Not about Polish culture in Canada. 2) Not about Polish culture alone. There can be Jewish culture in Warsaw. ChemTerm(talk) 20:35, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I presume this renaming scheme affects other similar categories, too? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 20:37, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course! Dzienkuje bardzo!. BTW, Germany and Italy use Culture in Cityname. Poland is split between in/of.ChemTerm (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. If we need a more broad Polish culture by cityagain someday we can recreate it at that time. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support not about Polish enclaves in various cities across the world. --70.24.250.110 (talk) 01:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename since we do not want articles related to Hamtramck, Michigan in this category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:20, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * REname but to Category:Culture in Poland by city, better name. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Culture by Indian city

 * Propose renaming Category:Culture by Indian city to Category:Culture by city in India
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: Consistent with Category:Categories by city in India.ChemTerm (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2012 (UTC)ChemTerm (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support clearly confusable with Amerindian cities. --70.24.250.110 (talk) 01:56, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support "Indian city" might be misconstrued. I fixed the nominator's link to Category:Categories by city in India so it actually goes there.  I hope that was OK.John Pack Lambert(talk) 05:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename but to Category:Culture in India by city, better name. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:German culture by city

 * Propose renaming Category:German culture by city to Category:Culture by city in Germany
 * Note - if Spain, Republic of Ireland, Poland, India, Germany, Italy are renamed, as proposed, then I support renaming all the others that have the same bug. ChemTerm (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: Same reasons as for Category:Italian culture by cityChemTerm (talk) 20:11, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per nom. If we need a more broad German culture by cityagain someday we can recreate it at that time. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support not about Germantowns in various cities across the world. --70.24.250.110 (talk) 01:57, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename There are way too many ethnic Germans outside of Germany for this to ever be anything than ambiguous.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment we actually have Category:German Americans by city which despite its name sounding like more of a people cat is really more like this cat.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename but to Category:Culture in Germany by city, better name. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Climbing and mountaineering-related lists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Climbing and mountaineering-related lists to Category:Climbing-related lists
 * Nominator's rationale: Mountaineering is a type of climbing. The category "climbing and mountaineering-related lists" is akin to a hypothetical "swimming and breaststroke-related lists" category. Most of the category contents are related to mountaineering, but I think the broader category "climbing" is better in this case. Nathan Johnson (talk) 20:40, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The introduction to mountaineering says it includes more than just climbing. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - some of the contents and subcats would not be appropriate under that name. --Qetuth (talk) 03:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Well I don’t mind, but I thought that “climbing and mountaineering” would make the coverage of the category unambiguous. As in List of climbers and mountaineers, although doubtless those on the List of people who died climbing Mount Everest would count as mountaineers! Hugo999 (talk) 04:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Regensburg culture

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 20:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Regensburg culture to Category:Culture in Regensburg
 * Nominator's rationale: Siblings in Category:German culture by city use mostly "Culture in Foo". ChemTerm (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. We generally use x in/of/from y forms for all sub-national entities.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tribal communities of Rajasthan

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Lowercasing the "T" in "Tribes" should be part of a group nomination, if folks want that.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Tribal communities of Rajasthan to Category:Scheduled Tribes of Rajasthan
 * Nominator's rationale: India has a complex social ordering system that involves, inter alia, jati, caste, gotra and tribe. Sources often vary in how they describe a particular community. In the case of tribes, you might also find them described as a caste, a gotra or a clan (although gotra is the pretty much synonymous with that). The variation - and there are others - is huge and often there are inconsistencies in the same source. However, the government of India has a social classification system that specifies tribes. Instead of dealing with the inconsistencies that can arise both in and across articles dealing with such "tribes", it seems sensible to use the government system as a standard for categorisation. This is a test case: there are a few other similarly named categories that could be merged or renamed per my proposed schema. I am prepared to verify the contents post-merge - in fact, it ties in with my current exercise anyway. Sitush (talk) 17:12, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, the capitalisation - Scheduled Tribes - is per Government of India practice. The PDF can be seen here. - Sitush (talk) 17:16, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename to "Scheduled tribes of Rajasthan" - The Government of the Indian Union does not define capitalization of English words in the English Wikipedia. The EU capitalizes Member State all over the place, still the WP article is Member state of the European Union. ChemTerm (talk) 19:04, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the Government of the Indian Union certainly does define the capitalization of the names of its designations and classifications. Not every U.S. representative is a Representative; not every U.N. special rapporteur is a Special Rapporteur, and so on.- choster (talk) 21:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I really don't mind about the caps either way. but it is a sideshow in terms of my proposal. Whoever closes can do whatever they want about that. - Sitush (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename as per ChemTerm. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. We bow to local usage by English-speaking countries.  Since India has English as an official language, is the government of India feels that "Scheduled Tribe" should be capitalized we should do it.  Anyway this is more or less a proper name, so we should capitalize.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It is not "mpre or less a proper name", it is a proper name. This is an official government classification system that comprises Scheduled Tribe, Scheduled Caste, Other Backward Classes and Forward Classes. You'll never see those in lower case in the Indian media etc when they are referring to the system and, indeed, often they simply abbreviate to SC. ST, OBC and FC. However, everyone here seems to be missing the bigger point: I am proposing a merger - the capitalisation issue is less significant that us being able to categorise in some sort of sensible manner. The creator of Category:Tribal communities of Rajasthan agrees with me, btw, but has said so on their talk page rather than here. - Sitush (talk) 10:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. I had not noticed that the destination category does exist.  In that case we definantly should merge and not tinker with the current Scheduled Tribes cat.  I believe there is also Category:Scheduled Tribes of India.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually there is not. There is Scheduled castes and scheduled tribes but that article uses the form "Scheduled Tribe" in the opening line.  There is a lot of work needed to get consistency, and it does not help when people treat India as a non-English speaking area where we can ignore local usage.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Inclined to support the nomination, but Question: the nominated category is currently a sub-cat of Category:Indigenous peoples of India, so should the target category also be within that one? If not, then perhaps the nominated category should instead be renamed to . – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fayenatic, I've been a bit troubled by Indigenous peoples of India but haven't had the heart to raise the matter. I'm in enough squabbles as it is, right now. One of the difficulties is that, particularly in northern India (of which Rajasthan is a part), many groups claim the Aryan invasion theory. I'm unsure whether the terminology - "indigenous" - is even being correctly applied but I'm not a professional anthropologist etc. The "tribes" defined by the government of India may or may not be the equivalent in anthropology to, say, the Aborginal people found in Australia but until we have a really good definition for "indigenous" that is applicable to India, well, my suspicion is that the category you refer to should actually contain far less articles and perhaps none at all (although there may be a case for those who claim Dravidian descent in the south). I think people may be confusing indigenous/ethnic group/tribe/caste etc in all sorts of inconsistent ways and it might be better to use Category:Social groups of India etc. But it is all probably a topic best dealt with in another nomination, if ever I can summon the willpower. I'm a bit dis-spirited with the sniping going on elsewhere at present. - Sitush (talk) 14:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I do not think the idea of Category:Indigenous peoples of India is well thought out. How can we call Hindi people non-indigenous when Hindi culture developed in India?  In the case of India I think the whole concept is unwise.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:32, 10 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Villages formerly in Derbyshire

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: listify and delete; generally the best way to record boundary changes in the encyclopedia. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting villages formerly in derbyshire


 * Nominator's rationale: As far as I can find, there are no other former village by county categories for the UK on WP. We don't categorize articles by former attributes either.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 15:07, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This sort of grouping is exactly the sort of helpful thing that categories are for. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose and expand category system I think it might be better to categorize according to both former and present county (though that might lead to cumbersome category names), but I personally find the category helpful in sorting out the shifting county boundaries, and I would like this kind of category extended to other counties in England. Since deletion seems a foregone conclusion, I would prefer Listifying as suggested below. Mangoe (talk) 00:30, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete many of these articles are on things that are not villages at all. Categorizing places by all the 2nd-levl country subdivisions they have been in is a potential nighmare causing plan, and not really advised.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:06, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete we cannot categorize places based on their former jurisdictions...nearly every large European city would end up being in dozens of categories: Warsaw, Poland, would be in categories: Cities formerly in the Duchy of Masovia, Cities formerly in the Kingdom of Poland, Cities formerly in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Cities formerly occupied by Sweden, Cities formerly occupied by Transylvania, Cities formerly occupied by Brandenburg, Cities formerly in the Kingdom in Prussia, Cities formerly occupied by France, Cities formerly in Congress Poland, Cities formerly in Russia, Cities formerly occupied by the German Empire, Cities formerly in the Generalgouvernment, Cities formerly in the People's Republic of Poland... too much. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 07:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - what a horrific mess this could become! What next? Category:Villages formerly in Germany (eg. Neman)? Category:Villages formerly in Norway (eg. Fjällbacka)? Category:Villages formerly in the Umayyad Caliphate (eg. Monachil)? Anybody who just pauses to think how many times administrative lines on maps have been altered during the millenia, in literally tens of thousands of administrative units, will immediately realise the horrendous path such a category tree would lead us down. Kill this nonsense at infancy. --Mais oui! (talk) 09:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually the situation would be worse. A more equaivalent set of categories would be Category:Villages formerly in West Prussia, and then also having categories for all the various first-level sub-national entities that Poland has had over the last century.  This is truly a nightmare.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree would create many, many new categories. But in somes cases, wouldn't those things be defining, and demand a category of some kind.  We already have Category:Roman towns and cities for places formerly in the Roman Republic or Empire.  I supposed the alternative to list them, as in List of towns in New France or template them as in Gardariki (Norse settlements). Do wikiproject former countries or cities have any poicies on this?  --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 20:11, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Listify and delete -- There have been lots of boundary changes in England over the past couple of centuries. I do not think it is useful to try to reflect past geography in categories.  An article can explain when and why changes were made.  I think I recall an article on places that have ceased to be in Worcestershire.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I would consider this a satisfactory solution. There really needs to be some easily understood presentation of these changes, and I'm not wedded to categories as being that presentation. Mangoe (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I would support listifying. It would solve the problem that some of these articles are on wards that are made up of vilalges that were in Derbyshire at one point, but the wards that the articles are on were never part of Derbyshire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Steam games

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:33, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting steam games


 * Nominator's rationale: While there are other facets of Steam (software) that would be useful categorization (such as Steamworks-enabled game, Steam Workshop games, etc.) just being available on Steam is equivalent of building a catalog of what products a retail sells (eg this is a stone's throw away from something like "Amazon.com products") This is not necessary nor appropriate for WP. M ASEM  (t) 14:37, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - I agree that the category is too simple, and because of the consensus that Steam is a store, not a platform, it would be more akin to Category:Amazon.com products then Category:Windows games. Blake (Talk·Edits) 15:03, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete – I love me some Steam, but I don't see that the category does anything useful besides organizing by retail source, which we shouldn't be doing. I also agree that the idea for a Steam Worship category in particular would be useful. —Torchiest talkedits 15:13, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * (On that last point: done :) --M ASEM (t) 15:35, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Steam is a store and listing store's sold products is inappropriate. Per nom. We already have List of Steam games. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 15:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Yeah, I didn't know about that page. Whoops. —017Bluefield (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:Snow Benkenobi18 (talk) 21:08, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete categorizing products by who sells them is a bad idea.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - This category offers nothing but a reference to a catalog of software. D arth B otto talk•cont 16:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete product by retailer is a bad path to start down. --Qetuth (talk) 04:01, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep really useful, it helps us organise the pages, we also have other helpful articles including:
 * List of Steam downloadable content
 * List of Steam games
 * List of games using Steam authentication
 * List of Steam games released in 2012
 * List of Steam games released in 2011
 * List of Steam games released in 2010
 * List of Steam games released in 2009
 * List of Steam games released in 2008.--Vaypertrail (talk) 02:24, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply: You haven't really said why it is useful - in fact, I would think the lists you mention would largely make the category redundant. For a list of steam games, Steam (or Valve, note these lists are not in the category discussed but in Category:Valve Corporation), is a defining feature of the list. For say Braid (video game), steam is not a part of the game, it is just somewhere you can buy it. It is is not a defining feature of Braid any more than Gamestop or Amazon. --Qetuth (talk) 07:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Philosopher templates

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename. (Result of close discussion and template moves on Speedy.)--Mike Selinker (talk) 19:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Philosopher templates to Category:Philosopher navigational boxes
 * Nominator's rationale: All templates in the category are navboxes.and it's a subcategory of and . Armbrust The Homonculus 11:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 14:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Radio show templates

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename. (Result of close discussion and template moves on Speedy.)--Mike Selinker (talk) 19:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Radio show templates to Category:Radio show navigational boxes
 * Nominator's rationale: Category only contains navboxes and is a subcategory of . Armbrust The Homonculus 11:36, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 14:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Disease-related deaths by country
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.--Mike Selinker (talk) 05:52, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting disease-related deaths by country


 * Nominator's rationale: per WP:OC. Dezastru (talk) 08:23, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - I don't mean to step on any toes by proposing this deletion, but it seems that the category is in direct violation of WP:OC. I'm also not sure how this form of categorization would be useful to readers, particularly since most of the daughter or grand-daughter categories contain just a handful of members. Dezastru (talk) 08:28, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep as a top-level category for the by-country sub-cats. Often individual country categories have a handful of members when part of a larger scheme.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 15:08, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. If deleted, where will all the subcategories go? Or is the intent to nominate all of the subcategories? If so, they need to be nominated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see that the subcategories are useful either. I am new at categories procedures. Is there a bot that can delete the tree, or is everything manual here? Dezastru (talk) 07:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There are some bots that have been able to tag the categories. I have been away from WP for awhile though, so I'm not sure what the current status of those procedures are. I believe that these categories are mainly container categories; they are not intended to have articles placed in them. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:34, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * keep top level categories get kept. This a mis-interpretation of WP:OC and has no valid deletion argument. Hmains (talk) 05:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks to all who have pointed out my admitted error in the interpretation of WP:OC. However, that was a secondary rationale. The primary rationale, as stated, is WP:OC: "this form of overcategorization also applies to grouping people by trivial circumstances of their deaths, such as categorizing people by the age at which they died or the place of death.... Even though such categories may be interesting to some people, they aren't particularly encyclopedic." Dezastru (talk) 07:02, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not trivial though, as it is defining to the individuals within each sub-cat.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 07:48, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure I follow what you mean. If you were to say that death by aplastic anemia due to radiation poisoning was defining for Marie Curie, or death by poisoning was defining for Socrates, or death from lung cancer was defining for John Wayne, or death from complications of anorexia was defining for Karen Carpenter, or death from complications of AIDS was defining for Rock Hudson, I would understand. In all of these cases, the cause of death was/has been a prominent part of what has been reported about them. But is that true for most of the individals whose articles are grouped in the sub-categories? Is death by cardiovascular disease defining for former US President Dwight Eisenhower? Is death from myelodysplastic disease defining for Roald Dahl, or death from esophageal cancer defining for Harold Pinter? I'd say, no, disease-related deaths (and their specific sub-categories) were not defining for any of these individuals, or for most of the other individuals whose articles are so categorized. The actor John Wayne led a very public campaign against smoking after his diagnosis with smoking-related lung cancer, and Rock Hudson's diagnosis with and later death from AIDS were widely reported at the time and had an enormous impact on public perceptions of the AIDS epidemic. In their cases, the cause of death is part of what people remember about them. The other group of folks just died of diseases people get when they get old. Everybody dies eventually; the cause of death is not automatically notable/defining. Dezastru (talk) 05:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete the whole tree. Categorization by cause of death, at least diesease-related deaths, is trivial.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:08, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep. like Category:Establishments in California by year, each year may not have many, but the category is unambiguous and the fact documented is noteworthy. nearly all notable humans have their cause of death noted in their obituaries, thus the fact is not trivial, though of course some may see it as such. human civilization documents and honors each human death, esp. the cause of death. I refer you to the film F/X, where the killer is identified because he DIDNT ask how the person died, and the detective KNEW that the first question asked by everyone upon hearing of someones death is "how did they die?".Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:05, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep the whole tree. This is a well-defined category tree grouping an important biographical parameter. It is normal to include cause of death in a biographical article when known and documentable. Whether or not the cause of death is to be considered trivial is a matter of POV.--MChew (talk) 06:58, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment—this sub-tree is part of a wider range of categorisation of cause of death. For New Zealand we have the parent category Category:Death in New Zealand with Category:Accidental deaths in New Zealand, Category:Disease-related deaths in New Zealand, Category:Drug-related deaths in New Zealand, Category:People executed by New Zealand, Category:Deaths by firearm in New Zealand, Category:Massacres in New Zealand, Category:Murder in New Zealand, Category:Suicides in New Zealand, &c. Before we decide to dismantle one part of the "cause of death by country tree", we should be talking about what to do with the rest of it. At the same time, the notability for most people is not the particular disease from which they died. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I have just noticed that this topic had been raised recently at WP:DEATH. I have put a link to this discussion there. (When oh when will people have the good grace to involve actual editors in these CfD? - WP:BIOG may also be interested in this discussion) Ephebi (talk) 15:08, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * keep This is a parent category and particularly useful. Dimadick (talk) 12:38, 8 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Culture by region navigational boxes
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:39, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Culture by area navigational boxes to Category:Culture by region navigational boxes
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. When I first saw "area" I thought it meant different types of culture. "Region" clarifies this as being different parts of the world and the content of the category seems to relate to regions as Wikipedia describes them. 86.40.203.115 (talk) 05:06, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 14:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Book navigational boxes
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.--Mike Selinker (talk) 10:13, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting book navigational boxes


 * Nominator's rationale: This category is effectively redundant at the moment as I moved all remaining books that were novels to Category:Novel (book) navigational boxes and anything else is in the broader Category:Literature navigational boxes. There is one left (Template:Book year) but it is protected so I can't move it to Category:Book templates where it should probably be (I don't think it's even a navigational box anyway). 86.40.203.115 (talk) 04:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 14:34, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Literature award navigational boxes
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename main, Hugo, Nebula, Nobel, and WFA categories; upmerge Austrian, BSFA, Locus, and Italy categories.--Mike Selinker (talk) 20:13, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Book award templates to Category:Literature award navigational boxes
 * Nominator's rationale: This is what they are or mainly are. In the event of a slight deviation the offender can be disciplined (or removed, whichever is deemed the more appropriate action). This would then slot into Category:Literature navigational boxes. 86.40.203.115 (talk) 04:24, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Category:Austrian literary award templates to Category:Austria literary award navigational boxes (or possible merge to main book awards category as it has only one entry)
 * Category:BSFA Award templates to Category:BSFA Award navigational boxes
 * Category:Hugo Award templates to Category:Hugo Award navigational boxes
 * Category:Italy literary award templates to Category:Italy literary award navigational boxes
 * Category:Locus Award templates to Category:Locus Award navigational boxes
 * Category:Nebula Award templates to Category:Nebula Award navigational boxes
 * Category:Nobel Prize in Literature templates to Category:Nobel Prize in Literature navigational boxes
 * Category:World Fantasy Award templates to Category:World Fantasy Award navigational boxes
 * Rename per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 14:34, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. --Andrewaskew (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment these should be upmerged:
 * Category:Austrian literary award templates is a single template category
 * Category:BSFA Award templates is a two template category
 * Category:Locus Award templates is a four template category
 * Category:Italy literary award templates is a five template category
 * -- 70.24.250.110 (talk) 02:10, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. obvious. Locus Award templates now has a parent cat for the award categories, founder, mag, so the template category may not be necessary any more.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 10:18, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.