Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 March 22



Category:Wildlife sanctuaries of Andhra Pradesh

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename per C2C. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:31, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Wildlife sanctuaries of Andhra Pradesh to Category:Wildlife sanctuaries in Andhra Pradesh
 * Nominator's rationale: For consitency. For such categories for country subdivsions " in" is used not "of". Shyamsunder (talk) 23:36, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Category:Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: procedural close per discussion below. This could be re-visited again in the future. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:30, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia to Category:Wikipedia conflict of interest editing
 * Nominator's rationale: It doesn't really matter to me which category is merged into which category but it seems like there is a great deal of overlap and these categories are redundant. If the categories are not merged, please write explanations on the category pages that explain the difference between the two categories. Liz  Read! Talk! 21:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Category:Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia is a category for articles, and Category:Wikipedia conflict of interest editing is a category for project pages. Armbrust The Homunculus 21:16, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they need category names that don't resemble each other and are more distinctive. Liz  Read! Talk! 21:26, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Request procedural close as the split was only just done a few days ago (19 March) to implement Categories for discussion/Log/2014 February 19. The category pages already explained the distinction as stated by Armbrust above, and both talk pages have clear links to the February discussion. I acknowledge that the names are similar, but I racked my brains for a day before closing the discussion and could not improve on what had already been suggested during the preceding month. By all means improve the explanations on the category pages if you can; I have just tried to do so. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:08, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Fayenatic, I was unaware that this discussion was going on earlier last week. Quite a coincidence that I came across the categories yesterday. I should have checked out the Talk Pages but I just assumed that they were two similarly named categories created at different points in time. Liz  Read! <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:59, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


 * procedural close this discussion just ended. Let it rest for a while, then revisit later once we've had some experience using the new cats and refinish inclusion criteria.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 13:42, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Govals bhand in rajasthan rajputana
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedily deleted WP:CSD, and userfied to User:Yashgo1/sandbox. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:50, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting govals bhand in rajasthan rajputana


 * Nominator's rationale: it is an article not category. Shyamsunder (talk) 18:24, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nazi concentration camp victims by camp
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all. If there is a desire to merge the Auschwitz ones as Oculi suggests, no prejudice against "re"nomination; same is "Russian" is desired to be changed to "Soviet". The Bushranger One ping only 04:52, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Propose renaming:
 * Category:Nazi concentration camp victims by camp to Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps by camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Austria to Category:Austrian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Belarus to Category:Belarusian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Belgium to Category:Belgian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Croatia to Category:Croatian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from the Czech Republic to Category:Czech people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from France to Category:French people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Germany to Category:German people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Hungary to Category:Hungarian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Italy to Category:Italian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from the Netherlands to Category:Dutch people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Poland to Category:Polish people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Romania to Category:Romanian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Russia to Category:Russian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Ukraine to Category:Ukrainian people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from the United Kingdom to Category:British people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp
 * Category:Banjica concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Banjica concentration camp
 * Category:Bergen-Belsen concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Bergen-Belsen concentration camp
 * Category:Bełżec extermination camp victims to Category:People who died in Bełżec extermination camp
 * Category:Brandenberg concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Brandenberg concentration camp
 * Category:Buchenwald concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Buchenwald concentration camp
 * Category:Dachau concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Dachau concentration camp
 * Category:Flossenbürg concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Flossenbürg concentration camp
 * Category:Fort Breendonk victims to Category:People who died in Fort Breendonk
 * Category:Grini concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Grini concentration camp
 * Category:Gross-Rosen concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Gross-Rosen concentration camp
 * Category:Halle concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Halle concentration camp
 * Category:Izbica concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Izbica concentration camp
 * Category:Jadovno concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Jadovno concentration camp
 * Category:Janowska concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Janowska concentration camp
 * Category:Jasenovac concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Jasenovac concentration camp
 * Category:Jungfernhof concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Jungfernhof concentration camp
 * Category:Majdanek concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Majdanek concentration camp
 * Category:Maly Trostenets extermination camp victims to Category:People who died in Maly Trostenets extermination camp
 * Category:Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp
 * Category:Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp
 * Category:Natzweiler-Struthof concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Natzweiler-Struthof concentration camp
 * Category:Neuengamme concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Neuengamme concentration camp
 * Category:Ravensbrück concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Ravensbrück concentration camp
 * Category:Sachsenhausen concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Sachsenhausen concentration camp
 * Category:Sobibor extermination camp victims to Category:People who died in Sobibor extermination camp
 * Category:Soldau concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Soldau concentration camp
 * Category:Sonnenburg concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Sonnenburg concentration camp
 * Category:Stara Gradiška concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Stara Gradiška concentration camp
 * Category:Stutthof concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Stutthof concentration camp
 * Category:Theresienstadt concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Theresienstadt concentration camp
 * Category:Trawniki concentration camp victims to Category:People who died in Trawniki concentration camp
 * Category:Treblinka extermination camp victims to Category:People who died in Treblinka extermination camp
 * Category:Nazi concentration camp victims by occupation to Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps by occupation
 * Nominator's rationale: These are much more defining.Hoops gza (talk) 19:33, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks much, I'll get right on that.Hoops gza (talk) 21:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename all WP:C2C per parent Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps. The survivors are categorised separately under Category:Nazi concentration camp survivors. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:59, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I did not tag each of these pages with the appropriate tag yet. Is that really a requirement in order for a bot to rename all of these pages?Hoops gza (talk) 20:19, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's an absolute requirement. If you don't want to do it manually or with WP:AWB, try asking at WP:BOTREQ. Best done before the new day starts or gets harder. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:40, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If you do it before midnight, the code to add to the top of each category page is: . -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:42, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Should they have "the" in the new name, for example Category:People who died in the Sobibor extermination camp and not Category:People who died in Sobibor extermination camp?  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 08:51, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Rename most per nom (perhaps with a 'the' per Lugnuts). It is however excessive to subcat the Auschwitz ones by nationality and these should all be upmerged to Category:People who died in Auschwitz concentration camp and an appropriate nationality subcat of Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps by nationality (yet to be created apart from an American subcat). Further, what is the distinction between say Category:Austrian people executed at Auschwitz concentration camp and Category:Auschwitz concentration camp victims from Austria? IMO the former should be merged to the latter. Oculi (talk) 15:35, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Rename Although we should categorize people by functional country at the time, and use Soviet Union.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:41, 29 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lists of Great Britain MPs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of Great Britain MPs to Category:Lists of Members of the Parliament of Great Britain
 * Nominator's rationale: per parent Category:Members of the Parliament of Great Britain (1707-1800), and to clarify the scope. The current title could be interpreted as including lists of members of the other parliaments in the island of Great Britain, such as the pre-1707 Parliament of Scotland, the pre-1707 Parliament of England, or the 1801-onwards Parliament of the United Kingdom.  Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:57, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

For starters a cat "Lists of British MPs 1707-1801" would be unhelpfully narrow, because it is unlilely that we would ever have more than one or two lists for that Parliament. The wider situation is that we have a poorly-named as a parent with subcats for all Westminster MPs (Parl of Eng, of GB, and of UK), and it has as a subcat, again for all 3 Parliaments. The lists for each of the 3 Parliaments are in its subcats: Category:Lists of Members of the Parliament of England (pre-1707), and  (for the 1707-1801 Parl of GB). We will have more lists of MPs in the Parliament of Great Britain, and if we don't keep this category now it will only have to be recreated later. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support, this is a far better name. I wish we could do without the term "MP" altogether in category names, it is a journalists' shorthand, useful for large headlines. Moonraker (talk) 19:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete -- We have a separate category for each successive Parliament. To avoid category clutter, these categories are kept a short as possible "British MPs 17xx-17xx".  If we are to keep this category, it should be "Lists of British MPs" or "Lists of British MPs 1707-1801".  However the category has been created to contain two new lists both referring to lists of Scottish MPs appointed by the last Scottish Parliament to the first British one.  I feel sure that we already have complete lists, and do not think we need further category to house what I strongly suspect are duplicate lists.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:18, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Reply. It seems that Peterkingiron may not be fully aware of the category hierarchy here.
 * you have misread my suggestion. 1707-1801 covers the whole period of the GB Parliament, not just one Parliament: I would anticipate that such a category would host a list for each GB Parliament in that period, perhaps about 14 lists.  My complaint was that both the presnet members relate to the Parliament that sat from 1707 untilo the next general election.  I therefore wondered whether this was duplicating something else.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:51, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Johnbod (talk) 15:38, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Lists of Scottish MPs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Option 1. There is clearly a consensus to rename from the current names to one of the options proposed. There is no consensus on which of the two options to use—it appears that there is a 50/50 split on those who expressed a preference. Therefore, to resolve the impasse, I am simply defaulting to the current format, which is to use "MPs", since there was no consensus to change it. This discussion should not be cited as precedent for a consensus to accept the use "MPs" in category names, and the issue can be again raised for discussion in the future. In other words, there was no consensus in this discussion on the issue of whether to use "MPs" or "Members of Parliament". Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming:
 * OPTION 1
 * Category:Lists of Scottish MPs to Category:Lists of MPs for Scottish constituencies
 * Category:Lists of Welsh MPs to Category:Lists of MPs for Welsh constituencies
 * Category:Lists of English MPs to Category:Lists of MPs for English constituencies
 * Category:Lists of English MPs by location to Category:Lists of MPs for English constituencies by location
 * or
 * OPTION 2
 * Category:Lists of Scottish MPs to Category:Lists of Members of Parliament for Scottish constituencies
 * Category:Lists of Welsh MPs to Category:Lists of Members of Parliament for Welsh constituencies
 * Category:Lists of English MPs to Category:Lists of Members of Parliament for English constituencies
 * Category:Lists of English MPs by location to Category:Lists of Members of Parliament for English constituencies by location
 * Nominator's rationale: These categories contain lists of MPs grouped by the country they were elected from, not by their nationality. For example, many Scottish people have been elected as MPs for constituencies in England, and it is wrong to label them as "English MPs". -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:56, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment, this is an improvement so far as it goes, but I wish we could do without the term "MP" altogether in category names, it is a journalists' shorthand, useful for large headlines. "Members of Parliament" would be far better understood by readers outside the United Kingdom, Canada, and a handful of other Commonwealth countries. Moonraker (talk) 19:11, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Personally, I prefer the shorter form for brevity, and the word "constituencies" gives it context. It's not just a jouranlistsic term; it is widely used in every day conversation, and in books. See for example these Gbooks searches for "Tory MP", "Labour MP".   Google Scholar gives 10,000 hits for "Labour MP", or nearly 8,000 for "Conservative MP". I have added a second option to use the expanded form, so we can see which is preferred. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:45, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support option 2. We tend to avoid abbreviations in category names.  If we avoid the use of UK in category names, this should be changed. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:39, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support option 1. We have a convention of abbreviating to MP, because many of them site for many successive Parliaments and have a category for each Parliament.  Expanding the abbreviation would lead to unacceptable category clutter.  Both the English categories should be merged.  Indeed I am not sure that the "by location" category or its contents should exist at all.  At one stage we had a category for Cornish MPs, but was that not ultimately deleted?  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * No, the number of categories adds to the clutter. The length of the name does not add to clutter. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support option 2 per Vegaswikian, although I would add that "MP" is a more confusing term for most of the world than "UK", now rightly avoided in category names. For more on that, just glance at the page MP! Moonraker (talk) 00:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support option 1. This has been debated many times and the conclusion has been that the gain in clarity is not worth the excessive letter-count. (It is not true that UK is not used: cf Category:UK MPs 1900–06.) Oculi (talk) 00:54, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support option 2; Moonraker summarizes this well. The two England-categories could probably be merged. <strong style="color:green;">Arsenikk <sup style="color:grey;">(talk)  19:59, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:UNESCO World Heritage Sites in West Bengal
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 * The result of the discussion was: result. The Bushranger One ping only 04:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:UNESCO World Heritage Sites in West Bengal to Category:World Heritage Sites in India
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge as WP:SMALLCAT, with three members, one of which is not wholly in this state. List of World Heritage Sites in India shows only 30 sites, and 33 potential candidates, so it would not be too many to keep these in one national category. Other national categories in Category:World Heritage Sites by country are not sub-divided by state (except Britain). – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:02, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Note to closer: No bots; also manually merge the members into other parent, or one of its sub-cats as appropriate. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:02, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, if not deleted, should be renamed; see opposed speedy nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support merging. Shyamsunder (talk) 22:48, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support merger -- Not enough to merit as provincial category. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:26, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Battle honours of the Royal Air Force
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge I'm merging everything, as there didn't appear to be consensus concerning removing the redirects, below. - jc37' 22:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting battle honours of the royal air force


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete as WP:SMALLCAT. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:27, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Note to closer: No bots. Move lead article up into all three parents, and decategorise the two redirects. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:27, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep as part of the tree at Category:Battle honours. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:02, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * it only contains one article RAF battle honours, which my proposal would keep in the tree Category:Battle honours. Is that not sufficient? – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:31, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ...fair enough. Merge to Category:Battle honours should work then. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:35, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Operas by Marjan Kozina
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:06, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting operas by marjan kozina


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAT. Not expandable, because Kozina wrote only one opera. --Eleassar my talk 12:20, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose as part of a category structure. Many others in Category:Operas by composer and Category:Songs by composer have only one member; see justifications given in current RfC discussion at WT:CAT. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:11, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:OCAT: "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". Oculi (talk) 17:47, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Defining to the opera concerned and part of a larger estalished category structure. See also films by director and albums by artist too.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 11:22, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep – per Fayenatic, Oculi, Lugnuts (established structure within the exhaustive Category:Operas by composer). – Note that the template cfd has been to Category:Operas by Marjan Kozina which will probably preclude some editors from participating in this discussion. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep – per all Johnbod (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Internet critics
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:05, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting internet critics


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAT. Only five entries, questionable definition. Nostalgia Critic doesn't "criticized various aspects of the Internet", but most uses I've seen of "Internet critic" do include shows of his sort. I can't find any critics who actually do criticize individual aspects of the Internet. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. The initial edit summary when created shows that it was intended to hold Category:Critics of Wikipedia, which I have put back into it for now. However, I agree with the rationale for deletion. Vast numbers of journalists, politicians, activists, preachers etc criticise various aspects of the internet; doing so is not a defining characteristic. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:18, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per others, plus ambiguity between "critics on the internet" and "critics of the internet". Johnbod (talk) 14:46, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not a defining act for most people who do it. What might be workable is if we had "web-site critics" who others would call "web-site reviewers" sort of like book reviewers and film reviewers, but I don't think that is what is intended here, or is that what is intended?John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:44, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.