Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 April 15



Category:Public houses

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename all. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:22, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Public houses to Category:Pubs


 * Nominator's rationale: It's about time we dealt with this. The name in common use is "pub". Articles, books, media, pub companies, and local authorities all use pub. "Public house" is an anachronism, as that is an older usage, more properly belonging to the Victorian period when a Public house was under legislation distinct from some other forms of licensed premises such as Beer houses - such usage did continue into the early part of the 20th century, but in today's society people no longer refer to a pub as a public house. Also, there is no current official usage of the term "public house" - modern legislation refers to "licensed premises". The main article was renamed from Public house to Pub two years ago. There are several sub categories which will also need renaming.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  18:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Support, on the basis Pub is unquestionably the common term and matches the lead article. Though to say there are 'several' categories that will need renaming is an understatement!! Sionk (talk) 18:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm working on that! I had hoped that they would be automatically transcluded here when tagged, but it appears I have to list each of them as well as tag them. Is there a way a bot could do that?  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  18:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment I agree that "public house" is not a term in general use in Australia. But I note that we have categories for hotels as well as pubs. Should there be a difference between a pub and a hotel and, if so, what should it be? With increasingly relaxed licensing laws, where do taverns and bars and nightclubs fit into all of this? In terms of common usage (in my circles), pub generally denotes a place for primarily for the social drinking of alcohol, while the term hotel encompasses both a broader range of services, including accommodation, meals as well as drinking. I note that the use of the terms is often contextual. If I am going out to drink socially, I might say I was going to the pub, even though I might be referring to a place that offers the broader range of services of a hotel (but I don't intend to use those other services). Is a Hilton Hotel a "pub"? Or is a pub the sort of place you clean out with a hose each morning? Kerry (talk) 22:06, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can be confusing can't it! However, a hotel is a subset of accommodation, a pub is a subset of drinking establishment. Most times this would be clear. However, some pubs can be both accommodation and drinking establishment (such as Jamaica Inn); some pubs may have the name "Hotel" but be purely a drinking establishment; so for a few places it would benefit looking through reliable sources to see how they are commonly referred to. I don't think, though, that there would be many sources which would call any Hilton Hotel a pub.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  22:55, 15 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Support as common term also used at the main article. I cannot see any obvious ambiguity problems either. SFB 22:40, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per article move opinions -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:28, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename to match article. kennethaw88 • talk 05:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename but keep the present form as a cat-redirect, to prevent inadvertent re-creation. The question as to where to draw the line of distinction between Pub and hotel will always be debatable, as not all hotels offer accomodation, though most do.  On the other hand, some pubs offer B+B accomodation and some hotels have a public bar, as well as a lounge bar more suitable to better class residents.  I cannot speak of other countries.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.