Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 December 28



Category:Full Members of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 05:26, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting full members of the russian academy of natural sciences


 * Nominator's rationale: The category is problematic on the WP:V, WP:BLP, and WP:N grounds. The organization in question, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences (Russian abbreviation RAEN) appears to be a weird hybrid between a vanity press and a vehicle for promoting pseudoscience. See the references in the WP article on the subject; plus a couple of extra refs in English here, . The 'academy' does not provide a list of its members at its official website , nor does it publish regular press releases about elections of new members. So it is hard to verify the fact that somebody is a member. Membership in this academy does not confer notability, so it is hard to see what useful purpose the existence of the current category serves. On the other hand, given the association of this topic with pseudo-science, adding someone's name to this category can be viewed as derogatory, creating WP:BLP problems. E.g. I just removed this category from the Yakov Sinai page, where the addition of this category was not supported by any WP:RS. Nor could I find any sources after quite a bit  of internet searching, both in English and in Russian. For a famous mathematician like Sinai, having been listed as a member of RAEN could indeed be viewed as  derogatory piece of information. In fact, Sinai's CV at his own webpage does not list being a member of RAEN, while it lists memberships in various other academies. So I strongly suspect that he is not actually a member of RAEN, and yet his inclusion into this category went unchallenged for some 3 years. All in all, the category seems to create more problems than it's worth, particularly in view of WP:BLP concerns.  Nsk92 (talk) 17:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Since the organization doesn't publish a list of "full members" this category lacks verifiability. No opinion on the other concerns of the nominator. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Just for being non-defining to the individual involved. The negative connotations of it and the lack of official membership lists would kill the category if it was defining, but it is non-defining to begin with.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:32, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Even if we has a reliable source on who are members, membership would not be defining. We have a category for the Royal Society, because membership is restricted and is only offered to the most distinguished scientists.  However other scientific bodies give membership to anyone, or anyone with certain qualifications (such as a degree in their subject), so that we should not have categories for these.  In this case the body concerned is apparently engaged in pseudoscience, and is even less deserving of a category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Musicals by the Robert J. Sherman

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 05:30, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Musicals by the Robert J. Sherman to Category:Musicals by Robert J. Sherman
 * Nominator's rationale: Name is a typo at best. 86.161.146.60 (talk) 14:23, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Speedy per WP:C2C, clear naming convention. RevelationDirect (talk) 15:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Speedy as opposed to a Robert J. Sherman. Mangoe (talk) 15:49, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American businesspeople by family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 05:31, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:American businesspeople by family to Category:Business families of the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Others in Category:Business families by country only have one level per country, not these two levels. The nominated category is in Category:American businesspeople and the parent is in Category:American socialites, but I can't see a helpful distinction here. They should be merged, and the target should be added into Category:American businesspeople. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:24, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge unneeded level of category. Does anyone know if there is a way to figure out how many categories Wikipedia has. Some days I fear it may exceed the number of articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:36, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge -- There is no merit in the second level of categorisation. I too can see no difference.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:13, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Populated places by year of establishment subcats

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Propose upmerging:
 * Category:Populated places established in 38 BC‎ to Category:Populated places established in the 1st century BC and Category:38 BC establishments


 * Category:Populated places established in the 1030s‎ to Category:Populated places established in the 11th century and Category:1030s establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1032 to Category:Populated places established in the 11th century and Category:1032 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1094 to Category:Populated places established in the 11th century and Category:1094 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1160 to Category:Populated places established in the 12th century and Category:1160 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in the 1170s‎ to Category:Populated places established in the 12th century and Category:1170s establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1177 to Category:Populated places established in the 12th century and Category:1177 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in the 1210s‎ to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1210s establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1214 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1214 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1216 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1216 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1218 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1218 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1220 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1220 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1225 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1225 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1226 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1226 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1228 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1228 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1229 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1229 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1230 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1230 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1232 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1232 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1234 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1234 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1235 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1235 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1236 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1236 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1237 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1237 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1242 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1242 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1244 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1244 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1245 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1245 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1248 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1248 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1249 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1249 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1250 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1250 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1251 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1251 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1252 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1252 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1253 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1253 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1255 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1255 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1257 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1257 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1259 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1259 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1260 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1260 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1261 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1261 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1264 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1264 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1267 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1267 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1269 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1269 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1272 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1272 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1274 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1274 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1276 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1276 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1285 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1285 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1287 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1287 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1290 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1290 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1296 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1296 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1297 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1297 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1298 to Category:Populated places established in the 13th century and Category:1298 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1300 to Category:Populated places established in the 1300s and Category:1300 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1302 to Category:Populated places established in the 1300s and Category:1302 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1306 to Category:Populated places established in the 1300s and Category:1306 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1313 to Category:Populated places established in the 1310s and Category:1313 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1319 to Category:Populated places established in the 1310s and Category:1319 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1336 to Category:Populated places established in the 1330s and Category:1336 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1340 to Category:Populated places established in the 1340s and Category:1340 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1343 to Category:Populated places established in the 1340s and Category:1343 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1344 to Category:Populated places established in the 1340s and Category:1344 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1353 to Category:Populated places established in the 1350s and Category:1353 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1435 to Category:Populated places established in the 1430s and Category:1435 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1456 to Category:Populated places established in the 1450s and Category:1456 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1457 to Category:Populated places established in the 1450s and Category:1457 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1458 to Category:Populated places established in the 1450s and Category:1458 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1459 to Category:Populated places established in the 1450s and Category:1459 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1467 to Category:Populated places established in the 1460s and Category:1467 establishments
 * Category:Populated places established in 1474 to Category:Populated places established in the 1470s and Category:1474 establishments

Rationalle: Per Category:Populated places by year of establishment, which says: "Where reliable foundation dates exist, articles should be categorised by year for 1500 and later, by decade from the 1300s to the 1490s, by century from the 10th century BC to the 13th century and by millennium for the 2nd millennium BC and earlier. Prior to 1500, where greater dating accuracy exists, articles should also be placed in the appropriate Establishments by year category."

And these categories aren't necessary to keep their parents at a reasonable size - even the 13th century category would only be around 150 pages. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 10:45, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 *  Mostly Support/Alternate Upmerge for 1200s In general I support this nomination, now that I've clicked through the articles and see how small they are. I would upmerge the 13th century (1200-1299) by decade though based on the current size and update the category description.RevelationDirect (talk) 15:44, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support merger to centuries and to decades for the 1300s as stated., are you suggesting adding decades for the 13th century as well? I'm inclined to agree with you but I'd suggest we discuss a split separately and first agree on removing the individual years. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Correct, my suggestion was for decades there. No objection to moving forward on this nomination. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Nothing will keep us from splitting in the future in the unlikely event categories like Category:1474 establishments get too large.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge -- There clearly has to be a point at which we move from century categories to decade categories; I would not object to the point chosen.  My only concern with the concept of when places were established in Europe is that all too often the date given is the first occurrence in documents.  In England, the first mention of 80 or even 90% of villages is in Domesday Book in 1086.  However, it would be false to say that the villages were established in that year.  Most were no doubt some centuries old, but have no surviving earlier mention.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:18, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. I share Peterkingiron's concern, probably the only way to tackle this problem is to purge the categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment the date of "establishment" is somewhat distinct from the clear line in biographies of "birth". While records may not be preserved, or their accuracy may be questioned, there is a real birth date. Establishment of a settlement is what? The first person to have settled there? (if so, would that include only the people who now occupy the place, or does New York City go back to the Lenape people's, or their predecessors' settlement?) The first group of folks settling there together? (same issue) The start of continuous settlement there? (same issue) The first (semi-)permanent structure constructed there? The first governmental acknowledgement of the place? The first mention in documents? The date of "establishment" purported in such documents? Incorporation of the place - which may have occurred several times, once as a village, another as a town, another as a municipality, another as a city? As one goes further back in time, these issues make any positive categorization on when a place was established beyond a fairly wide range unlikely to be verifiable or meaningful. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Songs with multiple music videos

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 05:27, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting songs with multiple music videos


 * Nominator's rationale: The number of videos for a song is not a defining aspect of the song. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 02:49, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete The songs being grouped here do not have much in common and are unlikely so this category is unlikely to aid navigation.RevelationDirect (talk) 04:01, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. I am wondering how somebody would argue this category could be defining! --Richhoncho (talk) 09:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete' As being non-defining.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 11:05, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-defining part of a song. Anemone  Projectors  13:26, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete -- clearly a trivial feature. Many songs have cover versions by others than their initial promoters.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:20, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mayors of Statesboro, Georgia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to both. MER-C 05:31, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mayors of Statesboro, Georgia to Category:People from Statesboro, Georgia
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Only has two entries. Also upmerge entries to Mayors of places in Georgia (U.S. state) ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:19, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom but also to Category:Mayors of places in Georgia (U.S. state).John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:38, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Dual upmerge per JPL. Too small to be worthwhile.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:21, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.