Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 December 9



Category:English motorboat racers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:English motorboat racers to Category:British motorboat racers
 * Nominator's rationale: Motorboat racers represent the UK, not England, and there are not enough articles to justify diffusing the category. The use of English is also rather imprecise as several racers have mixed backgrounds, so categorising by nationality would be desirable. QueenCake (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nominator's rationale. Whizz40 (talk) 06:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Town history

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 13:06, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Town history to Category:History by city
 * Nominator's rationale: merge as the two categories seem to have the same purpose. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:16, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Support merge per nominator's rationale. Cobblet (talk) 19:36, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People associated with the Beatles

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: administrative close: category was speedily deleted as a mass deletion of blocked users' creations. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:38, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people associated with the beatles


 * Nominator's rationale: Similar category deleted in November 2012 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_November_3 with "The" rather than "the". Don't see that anything has changed. Egghead06 (talk) 11:03, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. I created the cat in 2012 mentioned above. I created it because there are people strongly associated with the Beatles, such as Mal Evans, Brian Epstein, and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who are currently categorised under the generic Beatles cat, as well as Klaus Voormann and Billy Preston who are not in the Beatles cat, but are listed in their infoboxes as being associated with the Beatles. If we already categorise and link such people, but in an ad hoc way, so some go under a generic cat, while others get an infobox listing, it tends to make sense to give them a specific defining cat. The objection is that such a cat is too loose, but so is the generic Beatles cat, and that's what is being used at the moment. I think we need to trust the judgement of editors to find a relevant association, which is what we do already. This cat would serve to group together articles which already have a defining link.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  15:52, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. The purpose of a category is to bring together articles that have the same defining characteristic. "being associated with" is categorization by trivialization. As SilkTork points out, there is a Beatles cat, and anybody who is more than "associated with" will be included in that cat. I also note that two different editors have already removed Bob Dylan from the cat, and I would have done too. --Richhoncho (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. Completely vague and thus serves no purpose. -- Kinu  t/c 18:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete "associated with" is a not a normally an objective criterion, and nothing here seems to indicate to the contrary. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:25, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete as speedy G5. Created by a sockpuppet. Nymf (talk) 18:37, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Rivers and streams of the US

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category: Rivers of the United States to Category: Rivers and streams of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Rivers of the United States by state to Category:Rivers and streams of the United States by state
 * Propose renaming Category:Rivers of the United States by county to Category:Rivers and streams of the United States by county


 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Alaska to Category:Rivers and streams of Alaska
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Arizona to Category:Rivers and streams of Arizona
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Arkansas to Category:Rivers and streams of Arkansas
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of California to Category:Rivers and streams of California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Colorado to Category:Rivers and streams of Colorado
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Delaware to Category:Rivers and streams of Delaware
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Florida to Category:Rivers and streams of Florida
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Georgia (U.S. state) to Category:Rivers and streams of Georgia (U.S. state)
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hawaii to Category:Rivers and streams of Hawaii
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Idaho to Category:Rivers and streams of Idaho
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Illinois to Category:Rivers and streams of Illinois
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Iowa to Category:Rivers and streams of Iowa
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kansas to Category:Rivers and streams of Kansas
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Louisiana to Category:Rivers and streams of Louisiana
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Maine  to Category:Rivers and streams of Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Michigan to Category:Rivers and streams of Michigan
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Missouri to Category:Rivers and streams of Missouri
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Montana to Category:Rivers and streams of Montana
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Nebraska to Category:Rivers and streams of Nebraska
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Nevada to Category:Rivers and streams of Nevada
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New Hampshire to Category:Rivers and streams of New Hampshire
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New Jersey to Category:Rivers and streams of New Jersey
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New Mexico to Category:Rivers and streams of New Mexico
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New York to Category:Rivers and streams of New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of North Carolina to Category:Rivers and streams of North Carolina
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of North Dakota to Category:Rivers and streams of North Dakota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Ohio to Category:Rivers and streams of Ohio
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Oklahoma to Category:Rivers and streams of Oklahoma
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of South Carolina to Category:Rivers and streams of South Carolina
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of South Dakota to Category:Rivers and streams of South Dakota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Tennessee to Category:Rivers and streams of Tennessee
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Utah to Category:Rivers and streams of Utah
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Vermont to Category:Rivers and streams of Vermont
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Virginia to Category:Rivers and streams of Virginia
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Washington (state) to Category:Rivers and streams of Washington (state)
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Washington, D.C. to Category:Rivers and streams of Washington, D.C.
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of West Virginia to Category:Rivers and streams of West Virginia
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wisconsin to Category:Rivers and streams of Wisconsin
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wyoming to Category:Rivers and streams of Wyoming


 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of California by county to Category:Rivers and streams of California by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Connecticut by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Connecticut by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Maine by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Maine by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Massachusetts by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Massachusetts by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Minnesota by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Minnesota by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New York by county to Category:Rivers and streams of New York by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pennsylvania by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Pennsylvania by county
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Rhode Island by county to Category:Rivers and streams of Rhode Island by county


 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Alameda County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Alameda County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Amador County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Amador County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Butte County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Butte County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Calaveras County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Calaveras County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Colusa County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Colusa County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Contra Costa County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Contra Costa County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Del Norte County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Del Norte County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of El Dorado County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of El Dorado County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Fresno County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Fresno County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Glenn County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Glenn County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Humboldt County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Humboldt County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Imperial County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Imperial County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Inyo County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Inyo County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kern County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Kern County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kings County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Kings County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lake County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Lake County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lassen County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Lassen County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Los Angeles County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Los Angeles County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Madera County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Madera County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Marin County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Marin County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mariposa County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Mariposa County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mendocino County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Mendocino County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Merced County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Merced County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Modoc County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Modoc County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mono County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Mono County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Monterey County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Monterey County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Napa County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Napa County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Nevada County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Nevada County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Orange County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Orange County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Placer County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Placer County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Plumas County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Plumas County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Riverside County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Riverside County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sacramento County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Sacramento County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Benito County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Benito County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Bernardino County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Bernardino County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Diego County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Diego County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Francisco, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Francisco, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Joaquin County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Joaquin County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Luis Obispo County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Luis Obispo County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of San Mateo County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of San Mateo County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Santa Barbara County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Santa Barbara County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Santa Clara County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Santa Clara County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Santa Cruz County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Santa Cruz County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Shasta County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Shasta County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sierra County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Sierra County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Siskiyou County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Siskiyou County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Solano County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Solano County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sonoma County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Sonoma County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Stanislaus County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Stanislaus County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sutter County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Sutter County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Tehama County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Tehama County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Trinity County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Trinity County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Tulare County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Tulare County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Tuolumne County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Tuolumne County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Ventura County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Ventura County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Yolo County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Yolo County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Yuba County, California to Category:Rivers and streams of Yuba County, California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Fairfield County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Fairfield County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hartford County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Hartford County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Litchfield County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Litchfield County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Middlesex County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Middlesex County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New Haven County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of New Haven County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of New London County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of New London County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Tolland County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Tolland County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Windham County, Connecticut to Category:Rivers and streams of Windham County, Connecticut
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Androscoggin County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Androscoggin County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Aroostook County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Aroostook County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Cumberland County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Cumberland County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Franklin County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Franklin County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hancock County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Hancock County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kennebec County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Kennebec County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Knox County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Knox County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lincoln County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Lincoln County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Oxford County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Oxford County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Penobscot County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Penobscot County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Piscataquis County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Piscataquis County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sagadahoc County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Sagadahoc County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Somerset County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Somerset County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Waldo County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Waldo County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Washington County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of Washington County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of York County, Maine to Category:Rivers and streams of York County, Maine
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Barnstable County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Barnstable County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Berkshire County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Berkshire County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Bristol County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Bristol County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Dukes County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Dukes County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Essex County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Essex County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Franklin County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Franklin County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hampden County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Hampden County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hampshire County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Hampshire County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Middlesex County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Middlesex County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Norfolk County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Norfolk County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Plymouth County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Plymouth County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Suffolk County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Suffolk County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Worcester County, Massachusetts to Category:Rivers and streams of Worcester County, Massachusetts
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Aitkin County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Aitkin County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Anoka County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Anoka County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Becker County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Becker County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Beltrami County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Beltrami County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Benton County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Benton County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Big Stone County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Big Stone County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Blue Earth County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Blue Earth County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Brown County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Brown County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Carlton County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Carlton County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Carver County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Carver County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Cass County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Cass County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Chippewa County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Chippewa County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Chisago County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Chisago County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Clay County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Clay County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Clearwater County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Clearwater County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Cook County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Cook County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Cottonwood County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Cottonwood County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Crow Wing County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Crow Wing County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Dakota County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Dakota County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Dodge County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Dodge County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Douglas County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Douglas County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Faribault County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Faribault County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Fillmore County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Fillmore County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Freeborn County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Freeborn County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Goodhue County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Goodhue County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Grant County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Grant County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hennepin County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Hennepin County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Houston County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Houston County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Hubbard County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Hubbard County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Isanti County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Isanti County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Itasca County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Itasca County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Jackson County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Jackson County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kanabec County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Kanabec County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kandiyohi County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Kandiyohi County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kittson County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Kittson County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Koochiching County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Koochiching County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lac qui Parle County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Lac qui Parle County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lake County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Lake County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lake of the Woods County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Lake of the Woods County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Le Sueur County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Le Sueur County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lincoln County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Lincoln County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lyon County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Lyon County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mahnomen County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Mahnomen County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Marshall County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Marshall County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Martin County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Martin County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of McLeod County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of McLeod County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Meeker County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Meeker County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mille Lacs County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Mille Lacs County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Morrison County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Morrison County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Mower County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Mower County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Murray County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Murray County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Nicollet County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Nicollet County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Nobles County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Nobles County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Norman County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Norman County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Olmsted County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Olmsted County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Otter Tail County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Otter Tail County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pennington County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Pennington County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pine County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Pine County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pipestone County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Pipestone County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Polk County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Polk County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Pope County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Pope County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Ramsey County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Ramsey County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Red Lake County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Red Lake County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Redwood County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Redwood County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Renville County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Renville County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Rice County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Rice County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Rock County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Rock County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Roseau County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Roseau County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Scott County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Scott County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sherburne County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Sherburne County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sibley County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Sibley County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of St. Louis County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of St. Louis County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Stearns County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Stearns County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Steele County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Steele County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Stevens County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Stevens County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Swift County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Swift County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Todd County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Todd County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Traverse County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Traverse County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wabasha County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Wabasha County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wadena County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Wadena County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Waseca County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Waseca County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Washington County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Washington County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Watonwan County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Watonwan County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wilkin County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Wilkin County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Winona County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Winona County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wright County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Wright County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Yellow Medicine County, Minnesota to Category:Rivers and streams of Yellow Medicine County, Minnesota
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Niagara County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Niagara County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Onondaga County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Onondaga County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Orange County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Orange County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Suffolk County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Suffolk County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Ulster County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Ulster County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Westchester County, New York to Category:Rivers and streams of Westchester County, New York
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Allegheny County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Allegheny County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Berks County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Berks County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Columbia County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Columbia County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Lycoming County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Lycoming County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Montour County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Montour County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Northumberland County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Northumberland County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Sullivan County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Sullivan County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Union County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Union County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wayne County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Wayne County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Wyoming County, Pennsylvania to Category:Rivers and streams of Wyoming County, Pennsylvania
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Bristol County, Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Bristol County, Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Kent County, Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Kent County, Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Newport County, Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Newport County, Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Providence County, Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Providence County, Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Washington County, Rhode Island to Category:Rivers and streams of Washington County, Rhode Island
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of King County, Washington to Category:Rivers and streams of King County, Washington


 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Guam to Category:Rivers and streams of Guam
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Puerto Rico to Category:Rivers and streams of Puerto Rico
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of the United States Virgin Islands to Category:Rivers and streams of the United States Virgin Islands
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Yellowstone National Park to Category:Rivers and streams of Yellowstone National Park
 * Propose Renaming Category:Subterranean rivers of the United States to Category:Subterranean rivers and streams of the United States
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of the Kenai Peninsula to Category:Rivers and streams of the Kenai Peninsula
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of the Seward Peninsula to Category:Rivers and streams of the Seward Peninsula
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of Southern California to Category:Rivers and streams of Southern California
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of the San Francisco Bay Area to Category:Rivers and streams of the San Francisco Bay Area
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to Category:Rivers and streams of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.)
 * Propose Renaming Category:Rivers in the Pine Barrens (New Jersey) to Category:Rivers and streams in the Pine Barrens (New Jersey)


 * Nominator's rationale: This nomination follows on from the renaming and reorganisation of seven of the US states, as per this discussion in October 2015. This proposal is for a straightforward renaming of the Category:Rivers of the United States and appropriate subcategories to Rivers and streams of x. The rationale is to have consistent naming of the US categories so that they encompass all rivers, streams etc. and that it is completed under one renaming discussion, to save piecemeal renaming in the future. (Tagging of the categories listed is now underway complete)...Jokulhlaup (talk) 10:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Reasonable expansion of scope. Dimadick (talk) 13:14, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep, but use "Rivers and streams" as a parent category of rivers. -User:DanTD (talk) 15:44, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom and the outcome of the October 2015 discussion linked above.--TimK MSI (talk) 16:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per the earlier discussion. Kmusser (talk) 17:56, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename, but to "Category:Streams in X". "Stream" is the official term that is used by the GNIS, the ultimate authority on geographical names in the US, to refer to any linear, flowing body of water, including streams. Thus, "Rivers and streams" is redundant. --Jakob (talk)  aka Jakec  02:15, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * rename per nom WP is for the common person, not experts. To categorize large bodies of flowing water as anything other than rivers flies in the face of common English usage.  Having both 'rivers and streams' in the category name (with notes indicating that this includes ALL flowing bodies of water)should satisfy most readers and editors, here--but of course not the POV extremists.  After the US, the rest of the world should be changed also. US is not special here. Hmains (talk) 03:08, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * So we should just ignore the terminology used by reliable sources, just because you say so, and I'm a "POV extremist" for wanting to get the terminology right. Absurd as hell, if you ask me. --Jakob (talk)  aka Jakec  12:47, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

comment While this discussion is going on, Jakob is systematically deleting all flowing bodies of water from Category:Rivers of Pennsylvania by county subcategories leaving empty Category:Rivers of xxx County categories and placing the articles only in Category:Bodies of water of xxx County categories. In so doing, he is violating the terms of how discussions on this page are supposed to proceed. He is producing the illogical result that Pennsylvania flowing bodies of water remain in Category:Rivers of Pennsylvania but not in the by county categories. He seems to justify this by saying this is his own category structure that he invented to prove that these articles are not about 'rivers', but instead are just about 'streams'. Hmains (talk) 17:51, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment The earlier discussion showed that the term stream is used differently by academics, who use it for everything, as opposed to the common understanding that a stream is a small river, with EB declaring that the terms river and stream are synonymous. The problem being (as shown by the many good examples) is that there is no definitive way of distinguishing between rivers and streams via naming or metrics, with the USGS admitting "There's no hard and fast rule" of differentiating between the two. Using Rivers and streams, covers all the bases, so that one person’s river, can be found (in these categories) as easily as the other person’s stream...Jokulhlaup (talk) 15:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment -- For cities, towns and villages, we could find no robust definition of where one stopped and another started: if was often a POV issue. I would suggest that the same applies here.  In my part of UK we have rivers and brooks; in other parts, they have rivers and becks.  In US, you have rivers, creeks, streams, and perhaps other names.  As I am not in US, I do not know local usage and am thus only commenting.  I see two options: to rename, on the basis that this will cover everything from the mighty Mississippi to the humblest trickle; or to keep, but add a headnote to every category that it includes all natural flowing watercourses, whether or not called rivers, including creeks and other streams.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:52, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 *  and continues even though the Cfr template says, please do not empty this category while the discussion is in progress...Jokulhlaup (talk) 16:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Possibly in preparation for ignoring a possible decision here he disagrees with and just doing as he likes. Hmains (talk) 04:53, 15 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. For simplicity and brevity. If we're going to add "streams", logically we should add all the other names like creek, beck, brook, gill, run... Also, since the decision here is likely to impact every other flowing waterbody in the world, the discussion should be widened before taking it. Bermicourt (talk) 07:32, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom, the line between a river and a stream varries with location and other factors, so we should just cover both terms.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:07, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom and earlier discussion. This is to ensure nobody will ever feel compelled to differentiate between rivers and streams, given differing specs and historical naming in different places. Re: the above Keep, there's no necessity to add other names, as 'streams' covers everything that 'rivers' doesn't.  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 21:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. I can understand where Jakob's coming from, but as others have pointed out going with just "streams", while it might impress the people at the USGS, would probably leave us with well-meaning new editors regularly recreating "Rivers of ..." categories. We don't have to slavishly follow our sources' terminology. Otherwise we're going to end up with "Watercourses of ...", which moots the distinction but confuses anyone who hasn't gone to law school or studied environmental science. Daniel Case (talk) 00:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Transracial individuals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting transracial individuals


 * Nominator's rationale: Wikipedia can't decide what a transracial individual is, how can there be a category of them? 66.87.114.203 (talk) 05:58, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * To supplement my nominating statement, I refer editors to Transracial (a disambiguation page that doesn't help define who belongs in a category of "transracial individuals") and transracial (which describes the category's intended usage of the word as "rare"). 66.87.114.62 (talk) 03:33, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment I have never heard this term before. The category currently includes 4 individuals passing as Native Americans without having Native American ancestry, and one individual passing as an African American without having African ancestry. Is this a defining characteristic? Dimadick (talk) 13:19, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The article of interest relative to this is passing (sociology) (this category is a subcat of Category:Passing (sociology)); a read there from my POV seems to indicate this category is a trivial categorization. --Izno (talk) 16:48, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Historically those passing were Euro-Americans with small amounts of African ancestry living in societies that insisted on a one drop rule categorizing those of African ancestry only by that fact and ignoring the preponderance of their ancestry. This is very different than Rachel Dolezal for whom there is no documented African-Ancestry, and just plain lied about her ancestry.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Neologism. If "passing" is defining (not sure that it could be) then presumably, all the Jews who passed as gentiles during WW2 would fit in (including the ones who "discovered" their Jewish roots long after the war, as a certain US secretary of state did), and all (formerly) closeted gays and lesbians who "passed" as straight, could get a category; what about non-Asian actors who played Charlie Chan? Further proof that "race" and "ethnicity" categories at WP are not valid since they are social constructs and highly mutable. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:29, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per Carlos. DexDor(talk) 22:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete We do not categorize by race. Beyond this, is someone like Michael A. Healy whose parents intentionally raised him as white from birth, even though his mother had enough black ancestry to be a slave transracial, or did he just never acknowledge the small amount of his ancestry that was black. What of someone with the same amount of black ancestry as Healy who never knew they had any, but it was determined by geneologists after their death?John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:24, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Actually, we do categorize by race, gender, and sexual orientation. This is no different. Just because this situation is more difficult does not make it different.  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Full disclosure, I am the editor who created the Transracial Individuals category. Even though some editors, some people have not heard of it, I would say transracial is akin to transgender, and worthy of being added to Wikipedia as a category, an article.  Just as there are people who wish to change their gender their are people who wish to change their ethnicity, race as well.  It's already being written about in notable publications like The Advocate: http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/06/13/op-ed-rachel-dolezal-caitlyn-jenner-and-idea-transracial and CBS News: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/06/12/nyu-professor-naacp-rachel-dolezal/ Neptune&#39;s Trident (talk) 16:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. Far too subjective. Questionable if this is even a "thing." Currently, the term "transracial" is used in literature about "transracial adoption," so the parents belonging to a different race than the child, which is not the usage for this category. None of the people in this category identified themselves by this neologism. As others have mentioned, this isn't "passing," since these people had none of the heritage they claimed. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and can't reflect original research or speculation. The correct course of action would be to study this concept, if it has validity IRL, publish in peer-reviewed journals, until it gains traction and gets included in secondary, published sources and everyday parlance. Yuchitown (talk) 02:44, 11 December 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Delete -- If this is to be kept, a much clearer definition is needed as to what it is about. My immediate reaction was that it was about people with parents of different races but that ought to be "interracial people".  If I guess correctly, it is about people of one race who identified so strongly with another that they pretended to belong to it.  That might provide an adequate basis for a category, as long as this does not require POV or ATTACK issues.  However, as at present structured there is no definition.  Unless a clear one is provided in a headnote, it requires TNT.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:33, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - subjective and vague; not a well-recognized and clearly defined group. Neutralitytalk 07:09, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, neither of the five articles in the category is convincingly about transracialism, they are either about concealing one's racial background (for whatever reasons) or about adopting a new ethnic identity (while ethnic is not necessarily racial). Marcocapelle (talk) 11:36, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - Are there any other opinions on this topic? It's time for a verdict I'd say. Neptune&#39;s Trident (talk) 23:20, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Muslim Chief ministers of Indian states

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:25, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting muslim chief ministers of indian states


 * Nominator's rationale: I see no reason why religion and political office-holder needs to be combined to make a category. Fails WP:OCEGRS. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 05:19, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Considering we do not have Category:Christian Chief ministers of Indian states, which considering how Christian Nagaland is is probably a much larger category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:32, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge -- In the Indian context, where people vote in practice on blocks by community ("vote banks"), religion is a significant issue in politics. I would have voted to upmerge, but the category is inadequately parented.  I would suggest the targets should be Category:Indian Muslim politicians and Category:Muslim Chief ministers of Indian states.  Alternatively, the equivalent categories for other religions should be created and populated.  For information, I understand that one of the south Indian states recently had a Christian Chief Minister.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not restricted to India alone. Easterners/Westerners around the world might be voting based on religions/sects/castes too and this might start a new trend of having politicians categories by their religious inclinations. That should be first discussed in a broader sense and not on an isolated CfD. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:44, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Categorizing people based on their religion, categorizing them based on the intersection of religion and political office is a much more complex matter.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:09, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete based on the assumption that Muslim Chief ministers of Indian states do not have a common political (Muslim-related) conviction. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:47, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep because there are very rare instances that a Muslim goes on to become CM of any Indian state, which can be believed from the fact that, out of 29 states of India, only 1 state-Jammu and Kashmir is Muslim majority with 68% Muslim population. In J&K too, only Kashmir valley is Muslim-majority while Jammu and Ladakh are not.--Nidafatimashahi (talk) 08:58, 8 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Youth choirs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:02, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Youth choirs to Category:Choirs of children
 * Nominator's rationale: No clear difference between youth and children. No advantage to separate categories in terms of category size or definition. Ibadibam (talk) 00:00, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment. We have separate (although muddled up in places) category structures for youth/child organizations (e.g. Category:Youth organizations and Category:Child-related organizations). Should they all be merged (e.g. Category:Youth religious organizations and Category:Children's religious organizations)? and if not then why just the choirs categories? DexDor(talk) 23:03, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge no clear definition of when one is one or the other. No reason to preserve this mess because the large categorization scheme is just as confusing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment—the usual distinction in the choral world is between unbroken and broken voices. A Children's choir will have only unbroken voices, while a Youth choir has broken voices. That said, with some voices not breaking until the age of 15 or 16, placing teenagers in a Children's category is fraught with cultural baggage. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:50, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Young people change very considerably with age. I would suggest that a boundary needs to be drawn at about 11-13, so that if the participants are mostly below that age they are children, but if mostly 11-18, they are youth.  I appreciate that this is a fuzzy boundary, but real life does not always fit into tight categories.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:37, 13 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.