Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 February 17



Category:Boy-Girl Groups

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 08:27, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Boy-Girl Groups to Category:Boy-girl musical groups
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. I suggest fixing the capitalization and clarifying that this is a category for musical groups. Deletion is a possibility; I don't know enough about music to know if this is a legitimate group genre or not. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete as non-defining. I've never heard of music groups with both boy and girls (or men and women) in them being referred to as "boy-girl" groups; they're just groups. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 00:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Unclear inclusion criteria. Presumably there is an age limit, otherwise bands like Blondie or Jefferson Airplane would be included. Despite that, the category includes Abba, who were aged 22, 25, 26 and 27 at the time of their first release in June 1972; and Buck's Fizz, who were aged 19, 26, 27 and 27 at the time of their first release in March 1981. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:36, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not generally considered a characteristic of the group. Gladys Knight and the Pips were put in their by me, the lead members were under 15 when it began performing, but considering how long they lasted, I am not sure that really makes any sense.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Caterpillars that resemble twigs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting caterpillars that resemble twigs


 * Nominator's rationale: Due to non-defining traits of a life-stage of certain species, and potentially subjective, editor's opinion (WP:OR) in deciding which species are thus categorized. I can think of a lot of things some caterpillars look like that don't warrant categorization. --Animalparty-- (talk) 21:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Quite a large number of caterpillars fall into this category and as the nomination says the point of acceptability into this grouping is far too debatable to be useful. This information would be better reflected in prose in articles relating to caterpillars and camouflage. If it proves to be a topic with much to say, then maybe a stand-alone article or list could be created. Still, as a category this isn't very functional. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Talkpages decorated by Hafspajen

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
 * The result of the discussion was: keep (non-admin closure) SD0001 (talk) 11:26, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting talkpages decorated by hafspajen


 * Nominator's rationale: This is a very unusual category (it's the only category named "Talkpages...", it currently has no parent categories) so we should decide whether this is a categorization scheme that benefits Wikipedia or not. A list might be more appropriate than a category. DexDor (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - It is a joke. It's not a real category. If you keept WP:Kaffeeklatsch, or Category:Tired Wikipedians - why should you delete this? Hafspajen (talk) 22:15, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, WP:WHATABOUTX. - jc37 15:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Articles cannot be kept for their humor value alone, - sure - but this is not an article. As per WP:WHATABOUTX: - this is not  something that may be a characteristic of most or all Wikipedia users, not  a grouping of users on the basis of characteristics which cannot be readily identified,  it is not on the absence of a particular characteristic, does not  limits opportunities for encyclopedic collaboration to just one or very few articles, it is not  categorised by personal preference, such as by user(s) edits or uploads, or  any grouping of users based on a shared dislike for a person, group, organisation, event, idea, philosophy, or activity - nor group users on the basis of irrelevant likes like Wikipedians who like red foxes, Wikipedians by food preference - it is does not  includes any grouping of users that are patently false and it is not  any grouping of users on the basis of a characteristic that, unintentionally or by design, triggers a negative emotional reaction in others. I actually do decorate these pages, and ever if the Swedish Wikipedia blocked  for putting Wikilove on my page overthere, I never expected this encyclopedia should react like this. Can't se how this could hurt anyone. Hafspajen (talk) 16:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Every new categorization scheme has costs (e.g. editor time fixing uncategorized categories) and categorizing user talk pages by a relationship to another editor ("Wikipedians awarded a barnstar by " ?) is, IMO, unnecessary. 21:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DexDor (talk • contribs)
 * If you'd please sign with four tildes, not five, we'd know whose opinion it is. Having to research the history for it is pretty unnecessary too. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC).


 * Delist deletion proposal. DexDor, this isn't a debate club. You haven't even pointed to a guideline that motivates deletion. This is pure user talk territory, and we're usually tolerant about that unless it's offensive or confusing or whatever. How about showing some tact and discussing the merits of your case before getting all procedural on Hafspajen's stuff? Peter Isotalo 22:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delist, please. I agree with Peter Isotalo. Being unusual is not a deletion criterion, per WP:NOTBURO. Bishonen &#124; talk 22:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC).
 * Delist. We have stuff like Category:Wikipedians with pictures; lacking a parent category isn't much of a deletion rationale, IMO. Drmies (talk) 02:55, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delist. This is the kind of stuff that helps against harassment and verbal violence. Kind of WikiLove, so to speak. Which would be a nice parent category.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   05:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha! Category:Wikipedia humor!  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   05:57, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And Category:Wikipedians by Wikipedia talkpage.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   06:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You've created another category with no parents .... and do you have any evidence for "helps against harassment and verbal violence" ? DexDor (talk) 21:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delist. This is just a small piece of humour that is doing no harm; there is no reason for it to be deleted. SagaciousPhil  - Chat 07:22, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per several sections of User_categories. In particular, per User_categories we don't do categories for individual editors, for what I presume are obvious reasons. - jc37 14:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see the relevance of those, or any, restrictions on user categories, as this isn't a user category. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC).


 * Delist, per Bishonen. - SchroCat (talk) 20:01, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per jc37, this categorizes other people's talk pages, which does not define the Wikipedian in question, since they are not Hafspajen. This kind of categorization is the same as Category: Pages edited by Hafspajen ; which is clearly inappropriate. If the category were empty, then it could be considered humorous, but it is a real category, that categorizes pages, so it isn't just humorous fluff, it is an actual category. We also do not keep things just because they are humorous, see the deletion of WP:BJAODN; Per WP:NOTFACEBOOK Wikipedia is not a social club, social circles should not be built as categories. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 00:17, 21 February 2015
 * Comment Yes, we do. We do keep things just because they are humorous - plenty plenty horn of plenty: Check: Assume bad faith and Stop that, it's silly ... Songs about Wikipedia/Don't vandalise this page. Also, mind it was not me who created it, just you know. See also:   Category:Wikipedia humor,  Category:Editors with a demented sense of humor ,    Category:Rouge editors  ,  Category:Wikipedia Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense, Category:Humorous Wikipedia essays ,  Fun,   Department of Fun, Userbox:   Don't delete the main page, Humor/Truth, Boston Tea Party, Please be a giant dick, so we can ban you,  Grief ...Songs about Wikipedia/We Will Block You....we even have media keept because it is Humorous  .Hafspajen (talk) 15:04, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No. Categories have a technical overhead that pages do not. So while we of course have pages which are relegated humour, in general (save for those who feel that they must "fight the system" by creating red-linked categories for their own vanity), we do not have personal categories. This has been re-affirmed in CFD repeatedly in the past. - jc37 02:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's the same as Category: Pages edited by Hafspajen. That would indeed be a personal category. The point here is, that Hafspajen's decorations are appreciated; they give a personal touch which helps to relativize the stupid discussions which arise from time to time, and which drive away editors. It's not just about Hafspajen personally; it's about cooperation, and the functioning of Wikipedia. Would you have some examples of the CFD's you refer to? Best regards,  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   04:58, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Just checking WP:NOTWEBHOST: Haf's decorations are comments on actual discussions, not just nice decorations. They provide "a foundation for effective collaboration."  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   05:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That fails WP:NOTFACEBOOK Wikipedia is not a social club. And if it tracks pages commented on by Haf, then it is equvialent to Category: Pages edited by Hafspajen and also NOTFACEBOOK failure. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:58, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This is what Categorization says:
 * "Every Wikipedia page should belong to at least one category. (However, there is no need to categorize talk pages, redirects, or user pages, though these may be placed in categories where appropriate.)"
 * So, talkpages may be placed in a category. The question is: is this category appropriate?  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   12:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And the answer is: No, it isn't. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delist Of the arguments for deletion, the one invoking "categories have a technical overhead that pages do not" is the most amusing. If that were an actual consideration we'd just scrap the entire category system (except for certain of its automated technical uses) which is almost completely worthless for finding anything with any confidence. EEng (talk) 02:50, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - I know notfacebook and all that, but some things waste more time and resources in their (attempted) deletion than they ever could just being left alone. Lady  of  Shalott  17:36, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A CFD discussion does more than delete a single category; it also establishes a precedent - whether this is a form of categorization that benefits the encyclopedia. IMO, it's better to discuss this before the category tree is expanded (e.g. into thousands of "Editors awarded a barnstar by " categories). DexDor (talk) 07:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Also a good argument. I admit, it was a "joke," though a serious one, since it expresses my sincere appreciation for Hafspajen's friendly edits and good humor. The talkpage-category fits into this 'attitude'. But alas, to discuss the establishment of precedents: what would be a good reason to create a category for a talkpage? Best regards,  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   07:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - this category is a blatant example of the last entry at Overcategorization/User categories - namely, a joke category. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Now that's a good argument! (Serious!)  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   07:00, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: It's an honor to be added! And who says we can't have some fun and beauty on WP?   Montanabw (talk)  05:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Some people think fun and beauty are "unnencyclopedic", whatever that means. EEng (talk) 12:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well there has been a lot of "fun and beauty" on wiki recently. Somebody needs to pay. Do you have a list of names? I dont have much traction with admins, but will get one of them drunk enough to troll through and range block whicever continent. Ceoil (talk) 14:08, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - Harmless fun. Plus Hafspajen rocks, and is highly valued by arts editors worryied about image curation. Another cat right there. Ceoil (talk) 14:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep/delist: "technical overhead" doesn't seem like a reason to delete, since we have Category:Wikipedia humor, Category:Editors with a demented sense of humor (with only two members), Category:Humorous userboxes, Category:Wikipedia administrators open to trout slapping, and Category:Rouge editors. By the way, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is about notability. Also, this isn't a user category, it's about Hafspajen's decorations to talkpages, so WP:OC/U doesn't apply. There doesn't seem to be a policy or (more importantly) reason for this to be deleted, so that's why I've said keep/delist. And please, this debate seems to be verging on NOTHERE. &mdash;George8211 / T 19:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That is not the same. Those are self-identification on user pages. This is merely user talk pages edited by Hafspajen. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 02:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Notice technical overhead. And if Hafspajen decorated every single talkpage they edited... &mdash;George8211 / T 20:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)·
 * Keep If someone wants to remove themselves from this, it's fine. This is good for building morale and thus improving editor retention. Are people saying that it's better to lose editors than have a single category? ("Saving server space" isn't even applicable, as deleted pages are still kept... just not visible) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:13, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: Yes, keep, little User:Crisco 1492, but always let people add selves to category if they wish. Is better for building morale! Wrong to add others and say "can remove selves if they wish." Opt-in, not opt-out! Self-identification! Ping little User:Joshua Jonathan. bishzilla   ROA R R! ! 10:32, 5 March 2015 (UTC).
 * Sure! Thanks Bishzilla.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   11:56, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Can someone now put a fork in this discussion, which is pointless well beyond even the norm for CfD? EEng (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, it's past its sell-by date. Socks have started commenting now! We'll have The Lady Catherine de Burgh next! Bishonen &#124; talk 19:47, 5 March 2015 (UTC).
 * Keep! Totally essential to the project!: While Mr Hafspajen is obviously too humble and inexperienced to decorate my own talk page (personally I prefer David Mlinaric who better understands those of a greater refinement), one is forced to admire the decorations that he has made to those less fortunate than myself (poor, dear little Mrs Bishonen springs immediately to mind). It's essential that a record is kept of his quintessentialy provincial works in order for social historians of the future to greater appreciate the more sophisticated and urbane tastes of those such as myself. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 20:02, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: Would someone please take that horrid animal outside - it's causing disress to my pekes. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 20:08, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Holy smoke. Somebody changed the lead image at Peke. Always Put My Pet on Wiki Movement. Hafspajen (talk) 21:25, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep Back when I joined this site in 2006, the Clinic for Wikipediholics was still a thing. We tend to take ourselves too seriously here, and as Crisco 1492 pointed out, nobody is being harassed by this category; on the contrary, it's providing some badly needed comic relief. Humor and writing an encyclopedia are not mutually exclusive. Altamel (talk) 02:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Please dear God end this absurd waste-of-time discussion! Somebody close this! Put us out of our misery! Trout the nominator! EEng (talk) 03:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Trout the nom? Why?  For not knowing in advance that a group of IWANTIT voters would show up to try to create chaos in a shameless attempt to try to hide that, in the end, this is a vanity category for users whose talk pages another user happened to drop one or more images on?  Shrugs.
 * User categories are supposed to be about collaboration, facilitating editing of the encyclopedia. Sooooo, if that's true of this category, now that you're all here, here's a challenge: Decoration is a dab page, how about picking one or more of those to edit? If you all pitch in with the fervor you have here, I'm sure we'll all be quite amazed by the results... - jc37 03:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is about collaboration. Many of us happen to find H's efforts uplifting, amusing, and inspiring. (And in the best traditions of open content, I've shamelessly stolen it). Now why don't you do us all a favor and withdraw the nomination, so you can move on to worrying about whether Caterpillars That Look Like Twigs should be a category, and the rest of us can get back to whatever it is we get back to? EEng (talk) 20:04, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * In this discussion we've had everything from by  and also  to suggestions of trouting the nom to suggestions that we improve the articles listed on Decoration to suggestions that categories have a "technical overhead" to references to WP:Please be a giant dick, so we can ban you to suggestions of making an admin drunk. I even get the feeling that some people here would have thought this was a joke if it was 1st April. &mdash;George8211 / T 21:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. If this category qualifies as Wikipedia humor, remind me not to invite any known Wikipedians to my next party. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * See User:EEng. EEng (talk) 23:04, 6 March 2015 (UTC) Anyway, it's the unknown Wikipedians I'd worry about.
 * Do I have to? Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:38, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hold your nose and click. EEng (talk) 04:41, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Category: Pointlessly dilated CfD discussions EEng (talk) 15:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep; I don't see the harm in this category, and that's reason enough to keep it for me. To those arguing that there's a performance impact, I ask: what happened to Don't worry about performance? Unless you're saying that this category is causing significant, measurable performance issues (which I must beg leave to doubt), such concerns are above our pay grade. Apart from that...well, we as a community have shown at least some tolerance for things outside the pale of the rules for the sake of humor before; the very existence of Bishzilla and the Lady Catherine attest to that. Why not show some more tolerance here? It doesn't cost us anything. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:04, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - Well admittedly it might look like a lot of fun... but I have to add that it is a creative fun ... and a little point on Wiki achivements: .... At least 30 articles were created through this kind of fun, people picking up an idea, an other comming up with an other one, many of those articles went to DYK,  at least five resulted in articles that later had Featured pictures from those article, lately it was the Ploughing in the Nivernais - both a DYK and a FP: so it is surely, in fact, beneficial to Wikipedia. Hafspajen (talk) 16:09, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Oxford events

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Oxford Wikimedia events. MER-C 07:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting oxford events


 * Nominator's rationale: The current title doesn't indicate that this is an administration category (i.e. not for articles) so a rename to something like "Wikimedia events in Oxford" might be appropriate. However, as the text says that this is for "Wikimedia" (not just "Wikipedia") events shouldn't it be a Wikimedia category like this[] ? DexDor (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. This is not a content category and should not appear so, otherwise it will collect articles -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for picking up on this, category has been renamed. Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 11:30, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bounty board

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete/UpMerge to Category:Wikipedia awards. - jc37 21:53, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Bounty board to Category:Wikipedia Bounty Board
 * Nominator's rationale: Add "Wikipedia" to the name to make clearer that this is part of Wikipedia administration (rather than being for articles) and change capitalization (it's a name). Alternatively, upmerge this category (which contains one page and one subcategory - which perhaps should be deleted) to Category:Wikipedia awards. DexDor (talk) 19:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. This is not about real world bounty boards -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. No point in keeping this when it has just two entries that could be upmerged to the WP awards category.  Nyttend (talk) 20:58, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Christian Classics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting christian classics


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OC. DexDor (talk) 19:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom; purely subjective. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: The capitalization implies this is a set, i.e. a discrete collection or publisher's imprint, while the category's description, "Books that are part of the classic literature of Christianity", does not imply the same. Note there is the Christian Classics Ethereal Library, which may or may not be related, but even if that was the inclusion criteria it may fail WP:DEFINING, as the CCEL website self-describes as a "digital library of hundreds of classic Christian books", which means such a category may be no more defining than "Books on Goodreads" or "Publications at the Wichita Public Library". Unless an explicit, defining, non-subjective set is identified, I say delete. --Animalparty-- (talk) 22:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, wildly subjective. The category was created on 15 July 2014, and neither the creator nor anybody else has added any articles to it since that date. It's populated by one book. (The Kneeling Christian, created by the same user.) I hope it's not overly personal to point out that the creator was a very new user and perhaps didn't understand the category system well. They seem to have left Wikipedia. Bishonen &#124; talk 23:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC).


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Live Search

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, merge contents to . Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting live search


 * Nominator's rationale: It is the same as Category:Bing: "Live Search" is the old name of "Bing". The majority of their entries are the same. All entries in "Live Search" are eligible for inclusion in Category:Bing. Codename Lisa (talk) 19:06, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge Identical scope as same product. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Delhi MLAs 2013–

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting delhi mlas 2013–


 * Nominator's rationale: Superseded by accurate description (close date) by Category:Delhi MLAs 2013–15. Redtigerxyz  Talk 12:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per Delhi Legislative Assembly election, 2015. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aspects of Shiva

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Aspects of Shiva to Category:Forms of Shiva
 * Nominator's rationale: In sync with Category:Forms of Vishnu and Category:Forms of Parvati. The category contains various forms/ incarnations of Shiva. Redtigerxyz  Talk 08:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support as consistent with tree. Forms is no more problematic than aspects either. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illinois Coal History

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Illinois Coal History to Category:Coal in Illinois
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. To mirror . There is no need at this stage to break the topic down by "history". Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support More in line with tree but also allows us to include contemporary topics, for which there is no benefit in separating out. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Radio owners
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Radio broadcasting companies of the United States. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Radio Owners in the United States by state to Category:Owners of radio stations in the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Radio Owners in Louisiana to Category:Owners of radio stations in Louisiana
 * Propose renaming Category:Radio Owners in New York to Category:Owners of radio stations in New York
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. I think that these categories are for people or entities that own radio stations in the jurisdictions mentioned. I'm assuming that it's obvious that they are not for people who own radios, meaning the receiving devices, since that is commonplace. I don't think we need the "by state" in the U.S. category at this stage, since there are two subcategories and nothing else in it. I'm not sure how defining this is, so I'm open to other solutions, such as deletion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - can these be "Radio station owners..." to better match the parent instead of "Owners of..."? I did a check of prefix index and the only "owners of" cats appear to refer to horse race winners. - jc37 03:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just thought "Radio station owners in FOO" was less clear, because then it sounds like the owners, rather than the stations, are in FOO. What's the important thing here—that the stations are in the place or that the owners are in the place? I think it's the former. (If a corporation was based in New York but owned a radio station in Louisiana, I would prefer to categorize it for owning the station in Louisiana rather than being a radio station owner located in New York.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:27, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I can understand that.
 * As I look closer at these, I'm wondering if this is a triple intersection which should be deleted.
 * We have radio station by owner: Category:Radio stations in the United States by owner.
 * Should we have owners by the location of something they own? To give an idea of this pandora's box... Owners of pharmacies by location of the pharmacies owned. Pharmacy owners in Lousiana. We could change this to laundromats, office buildings, parking lots etc.
 * Or to put another way, this is ownership by venue...
 * What do you think? - jc37 08:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do have my doubts about these. As you noted, there certainly are not very many category schemes for people who own things. Maybe a single should be as far as things go. Some of the articles are about corporations for which radio station ownership seems pretty central. But even that ... there are lots of radio station owners that are not really defined by that feature. I'm open to pretty much any solution here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, I tried to find anything on this. Commercial broadcasting was the closest I found.  I think that we could merge to Category:Commercial broadcasters in the United States by state. (commercial radio broadcasters?).  And the same for the subcats.  Let's kick this can down the road and see if it goes anywhere. If it doesn't, it can all be upmerged later without the "by state". - jc37 09:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge all to new target and logical parent Category:Radio station owners. There is no use dividing by American state when we don't even have a category on the plain topic itself. Subdivision many be warranted should this expand, but I'd expect national level to develop before sub-national level too. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Upon closer inspection, these owners are companies, not people. On that basis they could even be merged with Category:Radio organizations in the United States. SFB 07:51, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Those are associations (groups) of broadcasters. For the individual broadcasters, per the article Commercial broadcasting, it should be Category:Commercial radio broadcasters, if you want to drop the "by state". - jc37 00:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, we actually do already have an existing category for companies which own radio stations. You guys just hadn't found the actual wording of it, which is — and there's already a subcat for, too. They were originally created mainly by Stefaniomione, which isn't necessarily always a good thing — so the tree could potentially be nominated for a comprehensive renaming if people feel that the existing names are too awkward or non-intuitive, but we don't need a duplicate set of new "companies that own radio stations" categories sitting alongside the existing ones. We also do not need to subdivide the existing US category by each individual state in which each company happens to have holdings, per WP:OCLOCATION — and the "owners" wording implies individual people rather than companies, but people aren't what's been catted here. Upmerge all three to  rather than renaming them; if somebody wants to subsequently propose a different name for the target category, that should be done as a batch nomination of  and its subcategories. Bearcat (talk) 01:51, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. It looks to me like Bearcat is right and we should just merge these to Category:Radio broadcasting companies of the United States, since all the articles categorized are companies, not people. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, thanks for finding those, Bearcat : ) jc37 02:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per Bearcat. Even if we identified individual people as being the owners of radio stations, it is not clear that such would be defining for them. Since some people might own a radio station in a state they had never visited or virtually never visited,the division by state would not make sense.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional magicians (fantasy)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge the respective categories up.  Ricky81682 (talk) 22:00, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * UpMerge Category:Fictional magicians (fantasy) to Category:Fictional characters who use magic
 * UpMerge Category:Fictional female magicians (fantasy) to Category:Fictional characters who use magic

Many of the articles are there already, and splitting like this hinders navigation.

I understand that the goal here was purportedly by occupation, but if you look at the category contents, that's obviously not the case. Being a witch, wizrd, sorcerer, etc through some form of magic usage is different than utilising magic as a profession or as a means to making money. - jc37 02:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * UpMerge both as nom. - jc37 02:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Upmerge unclear distinction which does not aid those searching or those categorising. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * oppose "Being a witch, wizrd, sorcerer" is precisely a profession. As opposed to just "some form of magic usage", like in cases of Geralt of Rivia, whose profession is a "witcher" (as in: a monster hunter warrior powered by magical elixirs), or Imhotep (character), whose profession is a priest, or Sun Wukong, who is a fighter with a magical staff (and also a monkey). --302ET (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Your examples prove the point. These are characters with other professions who also use magic. Yes, there are a few characters who truly have magic-user as their occupation, but to split them from the rest of the magic-using characters for solely this reason does a disservice to navigation, and therefore to our readers. And "priest" does not automatically equal "magic user" by any stretch of the imagination. and by the by, these categories are named "magician", not "priest". - jc37 00:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: For recent history of these categories, see old discussions at Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 14, Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 4 and Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 12. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support merging of power with profession, but Oppose merging of genders. I therefore support the first line, but suggest Category:Fictional female characters who use magic for the second. Gender is mentioned as significant several times in the article witchcraft. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll support that outcome as well. SFB 20:26, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Splitting by gender isn't a good idea in this case, due to the fact that "magic" is what we're talking about. Switching genders is a common trope in fantasy fiction, and that aside, a character's gender is at the whim of the author. And what of situations like Wotan (comics) which was a male character until later authors decided the character should be female? Due to literary present tense, the character has been both. Or characters like Doctor Fate which have been various male and female characters. And there are magical characters which are non-human (certain plant creatures, for example), and so "gender" becomes a problem in quantifying. And by the by, "witch" doesn't mean just female magic users. So in all, splitting by gender just reduces navigation and creates WP:OR issues. - jc37 02:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per nom. Unless someone wants the male and female categories to be fully diffusing, let's not ghettoize the women, particularly fictional ones who might be able to switch.   Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  06:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Dyspeptic comment This kind of Titanic-deck-chair-rearranging underscores how ridiculously nonfunctional the entire category system truly is. EEng (talk) 14:14, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Will it reduce ambiguity? Fictional characters who use magic is subcategory of characters by superhuman feature or ability (aka Superheroes) of science fiction. Fictional magicians is fantasy oriented subcategory of characters by profession, usually in worlds where having a magical <insert title> occupation (i.e. yōkai, sorceress, witch, enchanter, wizard, magical girl, warlock, etc.) is about as common as scientists and engineers. Merging them will inevitably encourage the re-pollination of these ambiguous titles and undue previous attempts to keep these from bloating the Fictional stage magicians or those ...who use magic categories. --173.55.119.156 (talk) 06:13, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge I have become convinced that in fiction the role of gender in splitting magic users is unclear. There are clearly some creators of works involving magic (Terry Pratchet is the example I can think of the fastest) who see a strong gender role in magic. On the other hand J. K. Rolling presents male and female magic as essentially the same thing. Warlock, wizard, witch, enchanter, magician, sorcerer, sorceress, enchantress and other terms I have not thought of all come into play. I think the unified target category will best categorize this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - Category:Fictional female magicians (fantasy) was created to prevent the recreation of the highly subjective Category:Fictional witches; which was pollinated with nearly every notable spellcaster who just "happens" to be a woman. --71.177.78.98 (talk) 08:03, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Support both Many of these fictional works don't specify a specific class of magic user, and the different 'classes' of magic user are generally subjective applications to the character based on the opinion of the creator of the work. I see no reason these separate categories would be useful. ―  Padenton &#124;&#9993;  18:24, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose, whereas I can clearly see the usefulness to keep the nominated category (with magician as defining characteristic) I really have my doubts about the usefulness of the target category other than as a container category. 'Characters who also use magic', that's not really defining, it's hardly different from 'characters in fantasy fiction'. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:33, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Filmmaking
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: No consensus to merge.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 11:55, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Filmmaking to Category:Film production
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. Basically the same concept while 'Film production' sounds more professional. WWbread （Open Your Mouth?） 00:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: WWbread, you should put a notice of this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film as I'm sure they have opinions on this proposed merger. They could refer to two distinct occupational areas. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 17:51, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment There is clearly a lot of overlap here, but the target doesn't seem right for some things, like Category:Screenwriting. There are quite a lot of considerations to be made her about how this idea of production of a film sits within the overall parent of Category:Film. Category:Film industry may also warrant some merging here. I agree with Liz that the Film WikiProject should be involved as these are quite high level structures. We need buy-in from the topic experts who we would expect to maintain it. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment I think there is a qualitative distinction between the two but they seem to be used synonymously here. I personally associate "filmmaking" with the art and craft of making films i.e. directing/cinematography/editing and "film production" with a far broader scope that encompasses not only filmmaking but also Film budgeting/Principal photography/Post-production etc. There currently is no rhyme nor reason for how the articles are divided between the two categories (some things appear in both cats), so unless clear qualification criteria can be established for each category then perhaps merging is the best option. I've put some film articles through GA so am familiar with a lot of the terminology present in these categories. Betty Logan (talk) 21:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.