Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 February 26



February 26

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all. MER-C 08:11, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Athletes from places that use American English

 * Propose renaming Category:Federated States of Micronesia athletes to Category:Federated States of Micronesia track and field athletes
 * Propose renaming Category:Filipino athletes to Category:Filipino track and field athletes
 * Propose renaming Category:Marshallese athletes to Category:Marshallese track and field athletes
 * Propose renaming Category:Palauan athletes to Category:Palauan track and field athletes
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. These athletes are from places that are former U.S. territories. (Three of them are still U.S. associated states.) The places therefore use American English and these categories should be renamed to match the other athletes categories for places that use American English, such as, , , etc. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:ENGVAR -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support American variety of English is more common in these regions so there is potential for confusion at the current title. SFB 20:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, but keep the original titled categories as soft redirects.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 09:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Support in these places athlete alone is not likely to be seen to mean this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:18, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Olympic athletes from places that use American English

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all. MER-C 08:11, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of American Samoa to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of American Samoa
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of Guam to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of Guam
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of the Marshall Islands to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of the Marshall Islands
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of the Federated States of Micronesia to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of the Federated States of Micronesia
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of Palau to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of Palau
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of the Philippines to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of the Philippines
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of Puerto Rico to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of Puerto Rico
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic athletes of the United States Virgin Islands to Category:Olympic track and field athletes of the United States Virgin Islands
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. This nomination is supplemental to the one immediately above and is based on the same rationale and to match the format of . Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support American variety of English is more common in these regions so there is potential for confusion at the current title. SFB 20:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:ENGVAR -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 06:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, but keep the original titled categories as soft redirects.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 09:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:18, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

World Championship in Athletics athletes from places that use American English

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for American Samoa to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for American Samoa
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for Canada to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for Canada
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the Marshall Islands to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the Marshall Islands
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the Federated States of Micronesia to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the Federated States of Micronesia
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for Guam to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for Guam
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the Northern Mariana Islands to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the Northern Mariana Islands
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for Palau to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for Palau
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the Philippines to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the Philippines
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for Puerto Rico to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for Puerto Rico
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the United States to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:World Championships in Athletics athletes for the United States Virgin Islands to Category:World Championship in Athletics track and field athletes for the United States Virgin Islands
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename. This nomination is supplemental to the two immediately above and is based on the same rationale. Canada is included in this one because Canadian English reflects U.S. English on this point: see . Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * support per WP:ENGVAR -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose This proposal elongates an already wordy category name to disambiguate a term which does not require disambiguation. Regardless of whether you read "athlete" as "track and field athlete" or "sportsperson" it doesn't matter – no other types of athletes compete at the World Championships in Athletics so there is no potential for confusion. On the contrary, this introduces confusion be adopting multiple naming conventions when "athlete" is sufficient, regardless of what you think it means. I would also prefer a bulk move of the whole tree to use "competitors" over "track and field athletes/athletes" on the grounds that unity is important and possible, and competitor is shorter than the above proposition. SFB 20:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per SFB.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 09:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:IRAS objects

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:IRAS catalogue objects. MER-C 12:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting iras objects


 * Nominator's rationale: That a particular telescope (e.g. IRAS) has looked at, for example, the Andromeda Galaxy or NGC 922 is a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic of a galaxy, comet etc. Articles about galaxies should not be categorized below Category:Telescopes.  This category could be listified, but many of the articles don't mention IRAS in the article text.  This form of categorization could lead to articles about some astronomical objects being placed in thousands of categories ("Footown Observatory objects"?). DexDor (talk) 22:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom; trivial. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Category:IRAS catalogue objects. The nomination has completely misunderstood the purpose of the catalogue. These are not just objects which were 'looked at' by the IRAS satellite - they are in fact objects which were listed in the IRAS catalogue. That's a separate entity, albeit composed using the satellite as part of its mission. The difference is subtle but important. As an analogy, Category:Henry Draper Catalogue objects contains stars with entries in the Henry Draper Catalogue, not stars seen by Henry Draper. Admittedly this isn't clear from the category name, which is why I propose renaming it. Modest Genius talk 15:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That an object has been listed in the IRAS catalogue is equally non-defining. The IRAS catalogue is presumably (we don't have an article about the catalogue) a list of (some of) the objects (anything from a comet to a galaxy) that have been viewed using that telescope. We don't, for example, categorize works of art by which auction catalogs they have appeared in. DexDor (talk) 07:28, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep and rename, agree with Modest Genius. — Huntster (t @ c) 21:56, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename per Modest Genius, who does a better job of explaining the issue than I could hope to. StringTheory11 (t • c) 16:17, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep I find it hard to understand how, for an object whose primary or only name is its IRAS catalogue number (IRAS 16293-2422 for example), that its IRAS cataloguing could not be defining. However, for other objects, Messier 109 for example, it seems improbable that its IRAS cataloguing is defining at all. There will be intermediate, debatable situations, of course. Therefore, as often in these sort of discussions, we should remove the articles that should not be in the category and, if need be, review in the light of the outcome. Yes, rename it and edit the category entry to explain its intended use. Thincat (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Stars with proper names

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting stars with proper names


 * Nominator's rationale: This is categorizing stars (astronomical objects) by a characteristic of (one of) their names (i.e. how humans refer to them) rather than by a characteristic of the stars themselves. It also places articles about stars in Category:Catalogues. DexDor (talk) 22:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete trivial, categorizing how a star is referred to is OC by name. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep this is a defining characteristic for humans which is what the encyclopedia is for, humans. Almost all stars with proper names are stars that are naked eye visible. Stars with proper names participate in the celestial mythologies of various cultures astrologies -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This category selects articles based on the names of the objects. A category for "stars that are naked eye visible" (or "stars of apparent magnitude ...") would be a different category and would fail WP:OC, WP:OC etc.  This information is better presented as a list - such as List of brightest stars. DexDor (talk) 07:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep- but restrict to stars that have names not assigned via a systematic naming scheme. That is, it ought to include Betelgeuse, Barnard's star and Mira (at a stretch also Proxima Centauri) but not Delta Scuti or HD 20868. Reyk  YO!  08:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep ― per arguments of 70.51.200.101 and User:Reyk. Just a clarification: star names are unique proper names, designations such as "greek-letter constellation-name" aren't regarded as names but designations according to astronomy terminology, same goes for "HD number" and similar; in this context note that "Proxima" is not a greek letter. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 11:41, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per Reyk etc. Proper names are often discussed and defined in astronomy books as the Greek/Latin/Arabic names such as Sirius, Betelgeuse etc. Their origin and legitimacy is a subject of much discussion. All stars known by Bayer designation only (or HD, HIP etc.) should not be on the list. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per Ryek and Rursus. Having a proper name means that these objects have attracted major attention from the public and/or have an important role in the history of astronomy. There are surprisingly few of these - most stars have systematic designations instead. It's not arbitrary because Wikipedia didn't decide which ones were given names - and all which were are included. Modest Genius talk 15:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: most of the stars appearing in that category as Bayer designations do have proper names, which just need including via LISTAS. Modest Genius talk 16:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per Ryek and Rursus above, who have expressed a system of inclusion with clear purpose rather than being something more arbitrary. Nice. — Huntster (t @ c) 20:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indochina

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:56, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting indochina


 * Nominator's rationale: No indication that "Indochina" as a geographic term is in common usage, or ever included all of what is listed in the category. For instance, Britannica lists Indochina only in the French Indochina meaning. A feasible alternative may be Continental south-east Asia, which is a more descriptive term. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - despite an 1886 map on the article claiming to include the countries, there is insufficient evidence of any current reliable sources that verify that the term is in current usage. Creating a category based on an article as source with insufficient RS seems insufficient to create a category. satusuro 14:03, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My intention was to create a Category on geographical term Indochinese Peninsula. As far as I know, this term is used to describe continental part of Southeast Asia, i.e. a landmass that stretches from Myanmar to Vietnam and to Singapore in the south. I am familiar with the other definition of Indochinese Peninsula, as well (i.e. from Vietnam to approx. Bangkok). There are both definitions in use. I see them as definition of Indochinese Peninsula in the broad sense and the other one in the narrow sense.


 * I wondered, why there was no distinction between the terms Indochina and Indochinese Peninsula on english Wikipedia, since I understand the term Indochina to be more of a geopolitical, cultural and historical one. Since there was no discussion on this topic, I would be glad to see one now. So please satusuro, by all means, I'm looking forward to your (and from the others, too) contribution to this topic on wikipedia.


 * I wanted to name the Category for what it is: Category:Indochinese Peninsula - in the broad sense of the definition, the one that I am familiar with as a geographer. I did so on sl.wikipedia. On en.wikipedia, I used the existing page name, since there has been no distinction between both terms. I'm aware that the distinction exists though. Odd enough, there is also no distinction between Arabia and Arabian Peninsula, for instance (it is nice to read de.wikipedia as an exception to the rule!). I assume this to be a rather similar case. I find regions to be often very difficult to define (see Levant for instance). I hope there will be a distinction of some sort between Indochinese Peninsula and Indochina in the future. In this sense, I see the point in creating of the Category:Indochinese Peninsula. Cabana (talk) 16:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This response fails to address the issue that (a) the article re this subject remained with no WP:RS for over 5 years, the 1886 maps is hardly what can be identified as an example of broad usage and acceptance (b) failure to understand or apply WP:RS suggests that the ideas are great but do not stand basic requirements of wikipedia inclusion.  (c) to play with the notions of indochinese peninsula and indochina is fine on talk or afd space, but not what WP:ABOUT requires. satusuro 22:51, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. The term is still being used and not just in historical context, see e.g. . The absence of an article about it on WP must be an accidental omission. I'll notify Wikiproject Asia about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oops - WikiProject Southeast Asia exists for a start - 5 years and the article has no wp:rs of any substance - I am not doubting the capacity of an enterprising editor to qualify the usage(or not) - there is no effort to have improved the article - the current state of the article does not justify tying in a category - as it is close to encouraging WP:OR and WP:HOAX if one is creating the category based on the article in its current form satusuro 11:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, I'll notify the Southeast Asia project as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * leaning delete - not a term we'd categorise anything by these days. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. The term is still being used, but  research  demonstrates that  almost every  reference to  it  shows different borders of this hypothetical  geographical zone. Traditionally, Indochine was the area colonised by  the French comprising  Vietnam, Lao, and Cambodia, but  journalistic licence today  in  various concepts use it  to  include anything  up  to almost the whole of Southeast Asia. No,I  cam't  see a compelling  reason for having  a category for something  so  loosley  defined in the absence of an official  geographical  area. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But then we should delete nearly every region, shouldn't we? For example, Western Europe isn't defined any better but we still have Category:Western Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People educated at The Haberdashers' Aske's Boys' School

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename/merge back as proposed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:03, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People educated at The Haberdashers' Aske's Boys' School to Category:People educated at Haberdashers' Aske's Boys' School
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge. Category moved with absolutely no discussion after the name of the article was also changed without discussion (I have moved it back - the mover can open an RM discussion if he wants it moved). The definite article is not used consistently even on the school's own website. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:52, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support – pending RM discussion on article. (Is 3 apostrophes a record for a school name?) Oculi (talk) 12:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dutch popes

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:11, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting dutch popes


 * Nominator's rationale: Small category with low likelihood of significant expansion. Editor2020, Talk 04:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT - "...unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme..."  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 08:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT, exception clause. The large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme is . Oculi (talk) 11:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete due to abuse of the smallcat exception. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, it is not part of a large sub-categorization scheme, since only very few countries are represented. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment see also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_February_24 of two days earlier. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete this is a small category that is not part of a large subcategorisation scheme – the scheme barely populates 13 nationalities, let alone the hundreds of potential ones. SFB 20:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT - see my comments on the Polish also. Johnbod (talk) 05:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Category:Popes by nationality and all its subcats, except: Greek, Syrian, Italian, and French, which should be re-catted to Category:Popes. German is questionable due to conflation of "German" meaning of the Germanic peoples", rather than "of nationality of the country Germany". - jc37 02:09, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:English popes
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:10, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting english popes


 * Nominator's rationale: Small category with low likelihood of significant expansion. Editor2020, Talk 03:59, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT - "...unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme..."  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 08:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT and consensus at many previous discussions. Oculi (talk) 11:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete due to abuse of the smallcat exception Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, it is not part of a large sub-categorization scheme, since only very few countries are represented. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete this is a small category that is not part of a large subcategorisation scheme – the scheme barely populates 13 nationalities, let alone the hundreds of potential ones. SFB 20:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a really silly argument. It is "large" because it covers 100% of popes to whom a nationality can be sensibly given. That there have never been any popes from Thailand etc etc really is neither here nor there. Johnbod (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is a silly argument at all. I would define a large categorisation scheme as one that populates well the majority of the elements which comprise the chosen sub-definition (nationality). I don't really understand your logic, which suggests that any categorisation scheme that divides all the popes on a given feature is by definition a "large" one. SFB 22:09, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT - see my comments on the Polish also. Johnbod (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Category:Popes by nationality and all its subcats, except: Greek, Syrian, Italian, and French, which should be re-catted to Category:Popes. German is questionable due to conflation of "German" meaning of the Germanic peoples", rather than "of nationality of the country Germany". - jc37 02:09, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Winner of the Vienna Fashion Award
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting winner of the vienna fashion award


 * Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization per WP:NON-DEFINING and WP:OCAWARD. A minor award rarely (if at all) cited when talking about fashion. The only reason this award is mentioned in any bios is that the creator of this category added it along with creating the award's article, which has no secondary sources to establish notability.   Mbinebri   talk &larr; 02:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.