Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 June 16



Category:1980s jazz albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 1980s jazz albums


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete. Do we really need to start categorizing genres of albums by which decade they were released. There are so many genre categories and many albums cross multiple genres that going down this road will simply lead to overcategorization – not to mention the genre warring that already goes on in a lot of articles as it is. Such albums are already succinctly categorized by year and its genre (typically via its "albums by artist" category) per WP:ALBUMS. I don't see a need to take this to another level. Thanks. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 23:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete I agree. I saw it for the first time today and my anguished heart sank at the thought of all the work I'll have to do recategorising albums and then having arguments/silently seething as albums are wrongly categorized instead of creating beautiful lush laden informative prose which I never seem to have time to do because I exist to CROSS my T's and DOT my I's and file them away in a neat box. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 15:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep That sort of thing can be done using AWB. A decade category for jazz albums doesn't seem unreasonable. It's if we start doing years it'll get too much. We have films by genre by decade. I'm sure User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao could easily add decade categories feeding off albums in jazz album and a certain year categories. For me a jazz buff, being able to browse through 1950s jazz albums etc would be most useful.♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:03, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment in regard to the above: recategorizing wouldn't be difficult, with the proper tools. Neutral on the category argument because I'm not hep to the jive, man...ahem, because I don't know enough about jazz to have an informed opinion. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment replaced by Keep, the category doesn't seem to violate any guideline. If it does, nominator should make this more explicit. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not about a guideline but a precendent being set that should allow for albums by decade for every music genre because when someone sees it for one, they think it should apply to all. This just brings another element of potential genre warring not to mention overcategorization for albums that cross genres. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 15:46, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't really worry about that. If someone starts creating similar categories for a genre that is actually too small for subdividing by decade, these categories can be nominated here to become deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:52, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. An album is categorized by year of release and artist. The "albums by" category is further categorized by genre. Most artists have a decade and those that exceed that have templates to show what was issued when. That makes this category surplus to requirements. Then there's all the future "genre discussions" which fans have, but not musicians...generally... --Richhoncho (talk) 10:41, 19 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Atlanta historic properties

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:City of Atlanta-designated historic sites (via a messy, rough consensus). I could not find any subcategories as were mentioned in the nomination. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:48, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Atlanta historic properties and subcategories to Category:Places designated as historic or landmark sites by the City of Atlanta (or alternate name?).
 * Despite the broad title of the category, the category does not match every historic property in Atlanta (which would be hard to define in any case); rather it contains only sites designated by the City of Atlanta. (The parent article is list of historic buildings and districts designated by the City of Atlanta). Neutralitytalk 19:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Other locally-landmarked or designated buildings have clearer category names (Category:Davenport Register of Historic Properties, Category:Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments‎, Category:Philadelphia Register of Historic Places‎, Category:San Francisco Designated Landmarks‎). Neutralitytalk 19:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Alt rename Category:Historic buildings of Atlanta, short and concise. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:25, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What's your view on this alternative? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It might work, but it isn't quite clear on who designates the site. How about Category:City of Atlanta-designated historic sites (or Category:City of Atlanta-designated historic buildings)? That is short, but is clear on who makes the determination. Neutralitytalk 15:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be my most preferred option (it is that important who designates?) but I'd be okay for the sake of consensus. The current category name with "properties" is really confusing, let's get rid of that first. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:46, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It's really important who designates, because otherwise we have unclear inclusion criteria. Neutralitytalk
 * I rather like the first of your two alternatives - I prefer "sites" to buildings. I'd support that one. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 02:42, 27 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Tentative oppose both, but I lean towards the former more than towards the latter. It's too long - my chief objection - but it's accurate in that it notes designation by the city of Atlanta as a criterion for inclusion. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 14:23, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- The target may well be strictly correct, but will be much better expressed as a headnote further defining the category, rather than as the category name. My preference is to keep category names as short as possible.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you think of the alternative Category:Historic buildings of Atlanta? This is as short as the current name. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:57, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That would certainly do: nice and concise. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:24, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Note to closer: (at this moment) there is clear consensus about the necessity to rename. Therefore please don't close as 'no consensus' even if there is no consensus about the exact target. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:15, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: Yes, should be short but include some mention of the City of Atlanta to distinguish from Category:National Register of Historic Places in Atlanta, Georgia, perhaps Atlanta (or City of Atlanta) designated historic places (or buildings) Hugo999 (talk) 23:57, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Official historical monuments of France

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. There seems to be a consensus among participants that a rename is a good idea, but there is no consensus here on what the name should be. The category was also not tagged with Template:Cfr. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:45, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Official historical monuments of France and subcategories to Category:Monuments historiques of France, the official French title, which is the name of the article Monument historique and also the commons category.♦  Dr. Blofeld  16:04, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: I believe that when referring to listed heritage sites we should use the official naming as it's a formal listing.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:06, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Support. The current title is too clunky; using the French would be more accurate. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 16:31, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment It should be "Category:Monuments historiques of France" if we want to use the correct French name for "historical monuments". You can't just use the category names from fr.wiki because all of their structure categories are in the singular.Category:Church in FranceCategory:Castle in FranceCategory:Cemetery in FranceCategory:Fort in France... Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:27, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure - I have no objection to using the plural. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Mixing up English and French in a category name sounds very clumsy, I think it should be either Category:Monument historique exactly as the article name, or Category:Listed monuments in France, similar to Category:Listed monuments and memorials in the United Kingdom. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:29, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Clumsy? Obviously you can't have them ALL in one category, they'll be split by department so you have to say in xx.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:26, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What I said before applies similarly to category names of departments, although that's not part of the nomination now. Having that in mind, the most practical solution is then to use the latter solution, Category:Listed monuments in France and apply that to the departments too. Hopefully there will be other countries included as branches in the listed monuments tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The only objection I have to such terminology is that "listed monument" does not necessarily equal "Monument historique". It implies only that a monument has been listed on a register...what that register may be is not clear.  I don't know much about historic preservation in France, but my concern is that if there are other historic registers (as I suppose there may well be), "listed monument" could be taken to suggest an entry on one of those. Using "monument historique" in a category name isn't perfect, I know, but to me it's the best option because it's the clearest.-- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 13:37, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * If there would be multiple historic registers in France, Category:Listed monuments in France would need to serve as a parent of them. But for now, that's not an issue yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose This is an English encyclopedia, category names are in English. Beyond this, there is thecommon name rule. Lastly, category names that are descriptive are generally the best way to go.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:24, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you think of the alternative of Category:Listed monuments in France, similar to Category:Listed monuments and memorials in the United Kingdom? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:43, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Egypt

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Gosh this is difficult to interpret. But I think that this is what was the result: delete Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Egypt and merge its contents to Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa; make sure Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa is properly within the Category:Establishments in Africa by millennium and Category:4th-millennium BC establishments trees; delete Category:4th-millennium BC establishments by country. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:56, 26 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Propose upmerging Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Egypt to Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa
 * Propose deleting Category:4th-millennium BC establishments by country


 * Supplementary nomination for alternative proposed below:
 * Propose upmerging Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa to Category:Establishments in Africa by millennium and Category:4th-millennium BC establishments (added 26 June 2015)


 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, it is the only entry of Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa and the only entry of Category:4th-millennium BC establishments by country. Just generally this millennium has too little contents for splitting the establishments by country. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Egypt is separate because those places are within Ancient Egypt and keeping it separate allows for Category:Establishments in Egypt by millennium to be complete rather than have it diffuse into Establishments in Africa when all the establishments are within Egypt anyways (perhaps "Ancient Egypt" should be treated as a separate former country from Egypt currently but that's enough discussion for another time). I don't know if there's likely to be other establishments within Africa for that time period but I'd think it's possible (most likely minor cities or something but something I suspect). Establishments by country should be kept because it's part of the overall structure to have an establishments by country subcategory within each millennium, century, decade and year establishment category. There's no need to break the entire structure just because it's underpopulated in one category. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- There is too little history anywhere to need much splitting. Keep Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Egypt and parent it to Category:4th-millennium BC establishments, deleting anything between.  Too little possible content.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:33, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support alternative proposal of Peterkingiron. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Note to closer: I have tagged the Africa category as a procedural nomination per the alternative proposal. Let the discussion run for at least another week. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:04, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * My understanding of User:Peterkingiron's alternative nomination was as follows:
 * Propose upmerging Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa to Category:Establishments in Africa by millennium and Category:4th-millennium BC establishments. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:18, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Category:Establishments in Africa by millennium would be incomplete if Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Egypt was not contained within it somehow, so we should either make it a direct sub-cat if Category:4th-millennium BC establishments in Africa is not kept, or keep that one after all. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:35, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * 1000 years is such a long time, that I cannot see that millennium categories are useful to have. If the object is to parent centuries and we have a category for every century from 4000 BC to the present (and I doubt we will get much that precise so far back), we would only have 60 or so subcats.  That is perfectly manageable.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree with User:Fayenatic london, we should keep consistency in the structure of the categories, so support additional proposal added 26 June to the original nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:17, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - per nom. There was no Egypt in 4th millennia BCE, neither modern nor Pharaonic.GreyShark (dibra) 10:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.