Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 November 20



Category:Airports in Cincinnati

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Airports in Ohio except for CVG; also merge to Category:Transportation in Cincinnati, Ohio except for Clermont County Airport. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:07, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Airports in Cincinnati to Category:Airports in Ohio
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Category has only 3 entries. Two of the entries are for airports not located within Cincinnati. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Merging with Category:Airports in Ohio wouldn't be correct, because Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is in Kentucky. All categories related to Cincinnati are tricky for this reason. Generally, categories such as Category:People from Cincinnati, Ohio, and Category:Transportation in Cincinnati, Ohio, have been taken to more or less mean "in the Greater Cincinnati area". Category:Airports in Cincinnati is slightly more coherent because all three airports are owned by the City of Cincinnati. However, I recognize that a three-article category may not be very useful. A few more airports (currently without articles but linked from List of airports in Ohio) are located in the Greater Cincinnati area, so I would favor a rename to Category:Airports in Greater Cincinnati or Category:Airports in the Cincinnati metropolitan area, by analogy with Category:Airports in the Chicago metropolitan area. – Minh Nguyễn &#x1f4ac; 20:31, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * As a rule, it's very rarely helpful to directly subcategorize airports all the way down to an individual city. For one thing, airports are not always located directly in the primary city they serve, but are quite frequently found in a smaller town or rural area outside of the actual city limits — and for another, there are very few cities actually served by enough distinct airports to escape the WP:SMALLCAT problem, as there are very rarely more than three possible entries for any "airports in city" category. An airport should rightly be categorized in the general "transport(ation) in city" category for the city it serves, without regard to whether it's in that city geographically, but an "airports in city" subcategory should generally not be created except maybe for the very occasional exception. Metropolitan area categorization isn't as bad, because it can rope in smaller local airports and aerodromes that might not warrant inclusion in a city-specific category, but would still require more than just three entries to escape SMALLCAT. Upmerge per nom, or rename per Mxn as "airports by metropolitan area" if there are additional entries that could be added to that besides the three existing ones. Bearcat (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Rename and Expand to Category:Airports serving Cincinnati. Only 1 of the 3 articles is actually in Cincinnati, the other two serve Cincinnati, including the main one in Kentucky. As far as the actual name, we don't have clear naming format with Category:Airports in the Tampa Bay area, (lower case A) Category:Airports in the San Francisco Bay Area (capital A), and Category:Airports in the London region so I'm open to other rename proposals. The related main article is Cincinnati metropolitan area if that helps. RevelationDirect (talk) 14:06, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Category:Airports serving Cincinnati is a good name for the category. I've gone ahead and added more local airports to the category and wrote a new article about Cincinnati West Airport. – Minh Nguyễn &#x1f4ac; 17:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. The category should be limited to entities within the city boundaries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:57, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge. Since the nomination a number of airports in Ohio have been added to this category - probably in order to populate the category - but this only makes clear that Ohio is a more appropriate level to categorize airports. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:58, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport (CVG) isn't even in Ohio, and that Cincinnati–Blue Ash Airport is owned by the city but not located there. I think the fact that the city's main airport is in another state makes it more important to put the area's aviation articles under one roof. A reader looking for the CVG article would find it more quickly if it's located within the Category:Cincinnati, Ohio, tree than if they have to guess that it's under the Category:Kentucky tree. – Minh Nguyễn &#x1f4ac; 07:28, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * (Meant to ping, sorry.) – Minh Nguyễn &#x1f4ac; 07:29, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point, this means that the category should also be merged to its other parent category, Category:Transportation in Cleveland, Ohio. That applies only to the airports of Cleveland though, not to the recently added airports in Ohio. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Most of the recently added airports are as close or closer to Cincinnati than CVG, and the Blue Ash and Cincinnati West airports are affiliated with the city. So I'd include those at least, but I understand that it may be a stretch to put the Clermont County Airport under the Cincinnati tree. – Minh Nguyễn &#x1f4ac; 00:33, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Early Sinn Féin TDs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:14, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Early Sinn Féin TDs to Category:Sinn Féin TDs (pre-1923)
 * Nominator's rationale: Add a date and to match existing Category:Sinn Féin TDs (post-1923). Snappy (talk) 10:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Question - which category would 1923 SF TDs go into? Gob Lofa (talk) 10:48, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Those elected at the Irish general election, 1922 would go into the pre-1923 category. At the Irish general election, 1923, De Valera and company used the name Republican not Sinn Féin. The next Sinn Féin TDs were elected in 1927. So probably, post-1923 is the answer. Snappy (talk) 11:21, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Then you're making it look like there's a separate category for 1923 SF TDs. Why not call it 'pre-1924'? Gob Lofa (talk) 14:10, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * How is it any different to Category:Sinn Féin MPs (post-1921) and Category:Sinn Féin MPs (pre-1921)? Where do the 1921 SF MPs go? Perhaps instead of pre/post it should be pre/since. originally created Category:Sinn Féin TDs post 1923, maybe they would like to answer. Snappy (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * A tightly written scope definition should do the job. It's already there for the post category. The split point is the end of the Irish Civil War. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:08, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Suggestion -- I am not an expert on the history of Irish independence. However, as I understand it, SF won a number of seats in the 1918 UK General Election, but the SF members refused to take their seats and instead assembled in a (to UK minds) unconstitutional assembly at Mansion House, Dublin.  I am not clear how much de facto power this assembly had, but it can in a sense be seen as a precursor of the post-Treaty Irish Parliament.  I think the solution is for 1918-21 SF MPs to be included in a TDs category, despite any question about the legitimacy of Dublin assembly.  The date in the post-1921 category is misleading, since it refers to MPs of Provisional SF entitled to sit (but absent from) the UK Parliament from about the 1980s.  I do not think there were any SF MPs for at least 50 years after 1921, and when there started to be they did not come from Official SF, which may have been the Ulster branch of the RoI party.  There were a number of parties all (no doubt) claiming to be the legitimate descendants of the 1905 founded SF, but it is probably better to treat the original and the successive fragments as distinct parties.  My conclusion is that the 1918-21 SF members should be categorised both as MPs and as TDs and those elected in 1922 and 1923 as TDs, even if the term was not devised until 1923: as I understand it TD is an abbreviation for the Irish translation of MP, so that this is not stretching things too far.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you suggesting? Snappy (talk) 15:16, 22 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Question, is it really useful to make a split by pre-some year and post-some year? Can't the two categories be merged? Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 6 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.