Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 October 21



Category:French colonialism

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:French colonialism to Category:French colonial empire
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, unclear how the nominated category distinguishes itself from the parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:06, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I've notified WikiProjects France and Colonialism about this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:49, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree it doesn't really need to distinguish itself, I agree with the upmerging. Akseli9 (talk) 18:55, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Medieval Catalan and Occitan history

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:38, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:Medieval Catalan and Occitan history
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, seemingly redundant container category combining part of France and part of Spain (Aragon), while the combination is only based on their closely related (medieval) languages - see Category:Occitano-Romance languages. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:52, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Full upmerge -- while there is a linguistic link and they are adjacent areas, they are otherwise disparate. Laguage does not dictate politics in this context.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:37, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * An upmerge is not necessary per se, the subcategories of Category:Medieval Catalan and Occitan history are already contained in the medieval history of France and Spain. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:17, 24 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Zionist political violence

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming: I believe the category Category:Zionist political violence should be renamed into Category:Zionist terrorism. The Zionist political violence category is currently in the WikiProject Terrorism, I find it hypocritical for this to be named 'violence' while categories like Category:Islamic terrorism, Category:Jewish religious terrorism, Category:Palestinian terrorism and several other instances.
 * I know this was discussed on Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 9, but I am not convinced with the outcome and I suggest reopening discussion on this. The argument that there are not enough sources to verify this is actually false, a quick internet search shows thousands of results. Including here, here, here, here, here, here and several other instances. --Makeandtoss (talk) 13:31, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Alternative: create child category Category:Zionist terrorism. I suppose this will get a difficult discussion, if only because there is no clear definition of terrorism, as the Wikipedia article Terrorism also mentions. However there seems to be a sort of consensus that acts of terrorism can only be conducted by groups or individual people (but not states) directed against a state or ruling government. From that perspective I would consider that Zionist terrorism may be a valid category if it will only contain articles with violence against the British rulers before the independence in 1948, e.g. the King David Hotel bombing. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * If (as it currently does) this category sits below various "terrorism" categories then it would be reasonable for it to also include the word "terrorism". DexDor(talk) 20:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: Marcocapelle. Uhm, actually not at all. Terrorism is also considered as 'attacks against civilians for political or other ideological goals' (i.e: Zionism). Not to mention; types of terrorism include:
 * Civil disorder: A form of collective violence interfering with the peace, security, and normal functioning of the community.
 * Political terrorism: Violent criminal behaviour designed primarily to generate fear in the community, or substantial segment of it, for political purposes.
 * These two types alone fulfill all the components of the category.--Makeandtoss (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Here starts the difficult part about the definition of terrorism. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:07, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * What we are doing right now constitutes to original research, no? Aren't we just expected to rely on sources?--Makeandtoss (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The underlying question of this discussion is to determine if the definition of terrorism includes ethnic violence between two parties (in this case by Zionists on Palestinians) while the attacked party doesn't rule the country. Based on the sources as mentioned in Terrorism it's not clear if that type of ethnic violence is generally considered to be part of terrorism. If you wish to maintain that such ethnic violence can be part of terrorism anyway it may be helpful to provide some similar examples of ethnic violence that are (more clearly) generally considered to be of terrorist nature. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Its not ethnic violence, between two ethnicities. Almost all articles included in category are attacks of Zionist militias on Palestinians, while the remaining articles are attacks by Zionist militias on Britain. Not to mention that ethnic violence is, in fact terrorism. --Makeandtoss (talk) 21:37, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Just for clarity, I inserted a summary of my proposal at the beginning of my contribution. Honestly I had expected much more people to react. If nobody else reacts I consider that this alternative proposal has insufficient support and then I would support the original nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:16, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment -- I think there is a potentially viable category here, but neither the present name nor the target is a wholly satisfactory one. The subject is the struggle leading to the formation of the state of Israel, in which there certainly were incidents that others would regard as terrorism.  I am looking to have a focused category that cannot be used by Arabs as an ATTACK category against Israel.  I would suggestCategory:Zionist terrorism (1940-1948).  The initial date should be when the first Zionist attack took place, not necessarily 1940 and the last the point at which the UN-controlled ceasefire line between Israel and Jordan became functional.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:47, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I highly disagree. It is a satisfactory one because it is similar to other related categories. Articles in the category like; Moshe Levinger, Kafr Qasim massacre, Khan Yunis massacre, Rafah massacre are all irrelevant to the 1940-1948 period. It could be also updated in the case that there is an upcoming Zionist terrorist attack. --Makeandtoss (talk) 18:34, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Support – The majority of terrorism definitions includes attacks against civilians for political, religious and ideological goals. There's also a strong argument that Zionism covers the criteria of three goals to a certain degree. Political violence fits within the definition of terrorism and Zionism is no exception for an alternative, euphemistic term to be used. Tanbircdq (talk) 19:29, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose - there was a long discussion on this topic at the Zionist political violence and Palestinian political violence articles, where it was concluded to remove the word "terrorism" from both topics; reversal proposal of that move in 2009 failed; see also this discussion. I guess that discussion was a strong argument, requiring to restart the entire discussion once again if reversal of that decision is proposed. Furthermore, we need to rename "Palestinian terrorism" category to "Palestinian political violence" to match Palestinian political violence article.GreyShark (dibra) 21:44, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * All the articles in the category are proven to be terrorist attacks, by sources. That move proposal was a very weak discussion, and the Allegations of state terrorism by Israel is irrelevant to this category. And on the contrary we should rename this category to 'Zionist terrorism' so it can match 'Palestinian terrorism' category.--Makeandtoss (talk) 22:06, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Category titles don't directly match the head article if it's not appropriate to do so. GreyShark is confusing the matter by using a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument of previous discussions about articles that are irrelevant to this discussion. As Makeandtoss has stated, the category should be changed to a more consistent title so long as there's WP:RS supporting that the articles in the categories are terrorist attacks. Tanbircdq (talk) 22:05, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Rename to match its actual content. The category includes activities by well-known terrorist organizations such as the Irgun. Dimadick (talk) 10:14, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * So?..--Makeandtoss (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People by company in the United Kindgom

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedily renamed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:10, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:People by company in the United Kindgom to Category:People by company in the United Kingdom
 * Nominator's rationale: Last word misspelled. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:13, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Close nomination, the category has already been listed on CFDS. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.