Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 April 16



Category:24-hour television news channels

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep for now, but there is a willingness to consider further suggestions for a better name. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:09, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:24-hour television news channels to Category:Television news channels
 * Category:24-hour television news channels by country to Category:Television news channels by country


 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Argentina‎ to Category:Television news channels in Argentina
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Australia to Category:Television news channels in Australia
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Brazil to Category:Television news channels in Brazil
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Canada to Category:Television news channels in Canada
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in China to Category:Television news channels in China
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in France to Category:Television news channels in France
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Germany to Category:Television news channels in Germany
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in India to Category:Television news channels in India
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Indonesia to Category:Television news channels in Indonesia
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Iran to Category:Television news channels in Iran
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Italy to Category:Television news channels in Italy
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Japan to Category:Television news channels in Japan
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Moldova to Category:Television news channels in Moldova
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Pakistan to Category:Television news channels in Pakistan
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in the Philippines to Category:Television news channels in the Philippines
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Romania to Category:Television news channels in Romania
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Russia to Category:Television news channels in Russia
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Spain to Category:Television news channels in Spain
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Taiwan to Category:Television news channels in Taiwan
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Turkey to Category:Television news channels in Turkey
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in Ukraine to Category:Television news channels in Ukraine
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in the United Kingdom to Category:Television news channels in the United Kingdom
 * Category:24-hour television news channels in the United States to Category:Television news channels in the United States


 * Nominator's rationale: A TV channel is a TV channel, not just an individual program/show/series. Apart from that, I can't see why we're limiting this to 24-hour channels. While some channels will have a 24/7 full news program, most others - including listed ones - will repeat old and/or trash material. These days, only few channels will still show a nightly test pattern, but if some do, there is no good reason to exclude them, while including channels airing old/trash material at nights. PanchoS (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * For the record, the "24-hour" part was added because people had a tendency to add any television station that aired any news at all to the category, even broadcast stations that follow the typical broadcast "mostly entertainment programming but with 6 p.m. and 11 p.m. newscasts mixed in" model. But this category tree is meant for things like CNN, CBC News Network or BBC World, stations whose programming is all news, and not for every single station that airs any news at all. I'm not wedded to the "24-hour" part, if somebody has another alternative — nominator does have a point that some channels will only air news until midnight, and then run infomercials or a test pattern or the owner's ruminations on God and the Devil overnight, thus making them "18-hour" news channels instead of "24-hour" news channels — but the category name does have to explicitly clarify the distinction between "dedicated news channel" and "regular channel that happens to air a couple of hours of news within a schedule that's mostly not news", because it's not meant to include the latter. Oppose nomination as constituted, but I'm open to another alternative which explicitly maintains the necessary distinction if somebody's got one to offer. Bearcat (talk) 20:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Questions should we categorize channels by content at all? Can we always clearly distinguish news from entertainment? Does a channel have to provide news 100% of the time to be in this category, or at least 80% or what? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:54, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep but some of the categories must need a lot of purging. I find it hard to believe that Pakistan manages to have sixteen 24-hour news channels.  Al Jezeera is broadcast in UK, but is not a British news station.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:00, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment 24-hour television does not mean 24 hours of live or new programming, it means 24-hours of programming, unlike channels/stations/networks that sign off for a part of the day, which then air static or test patterns for some time; "All-news" would be channels that only air news (and perhaps infomercials/full-program-length commercials) regardless of the hours of programming -- 70.51.45.100 (talk) 07:11, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:News television series

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to programmes/programs according to spelling in  Category:Television programs by country:
 * Category:News television series to Category:Television news programmes
 * Category:American news television series‎ to Category:American television news programs
 * Category:Australian news television series‎ to Category:Australian television news programmes
 * Category:Belgian news television series‎ to Category:Belgian television news programmes
 * Category:Brazilian news television series‎ to Category:Brazilian television news programmes
 * Keep Category:British television news programmes
 * Category:Canadian news television series‎ to Category:Canadian television news programs
 * Category:Chilean news television series‎ to Category:Chilean television news programmes
 * Category:Chinese news television series‎ to Category:Chinese television news programmes
 * Category:Colombian news television series‎ to Category:Colombian television news programmes
 * Category:Croatian news television series‎ to Category:Croatian television news programmes
 * Category:Dutch news television series‎ to Category:Dutch television news programs
 * Category:Finnish news television programmes to Category:Finnish television news programmes
 * Category:French news television series‎ to Category:French television news programmes
 * Category:German news television series‎ to Category:German television news programs
 * Category:Greek news television series‎ to Category:Greek television news programmes
 * Category:Hong Kong news television series‎ to Category:Hong Kong television news programmes
 * Category:Indonesian news television series‎ to Category:Indonesian television news programmes
 * Category:Irish news television programmes to Category:Irish television news programmes
 * Category:Israeli news and current affairs television programmes to Category:Israeli television news programmes
 * Category:Italian news television series‎ to Category:Italian television news programmes
 * Category:Japanese news television series‎ to Category:Japanese television news programs
 * Category:Malaysian news television series‎ to Category:Malaysian television news programmes
 * Category:Mexican news television series‎ to Category:Mexican television news programmes
 * Category:New Zealand news television series‎ to Category:New Zealand television news programmes
 * Category:Norwegian news television series‎ to Category:Norwegian television news programmes
 * Category:Pakistani news television series‎ to Category:Pakistani television news programmes
 * Category:Philippine news series to Category:Philippine television news programs
 * Category:Polish news television series‎ to Category:Polish television news programmes
 * Category:Romanian news television series‎ to Category:Romanian television news programmes
 * Category:Russian news television series‎ to Category:Russian television news programs
 * Category:Singaporean news television series‎ to Category:Singaporean television news programmes
 * Category:South African news television series‎ to Category:South African television news programmes
 * Category:South Korean news television programmes to Category:South Korean television news programmes
 * Category:Spanish news television series‎ to Category:Spanish television news programmes
 * Category:Swedish news television series‎ to Category:Swedish television news programmes
 * Category:Taiwanese news television series‎ to Category:Taiwanese television news programmes
 * Category:Ukrainian news television series‎ to Category:Ukrainian television news programs
 * Category:Venezuelan news television series‎ to Category:Venezuelan television news programmes
 * – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:News television series to Category:Television news shows


 * Category:American news television series‎ to Category:American television news shows
 * Category:Australian news television series‎ to Category:Australian television news shows
 * Category:Belgian news television series‎ to Category:Belgian television news shows
 * Category:Brazilian news television series‎ to Category:Brazilian television news shows
 * Category:British television news programmes to Category:British television news shows
 * Category:Canadian news television series‎ to Category:Canadian television news shows
 * Category:Chilean news television series‎ to Category:Chilean television news shows
 * Category:Chinese news television series‎ to Category:Chinese television news shows
 * Category:Colombian news television series‎ to Category:Colombian television news shows
 * Category:Croatian news television series‎ to Category:Croatian television news shows
 * Category:Dutch news television series‎ to Category:Dutch television news shows
 * Category:Finnish news television programmes to Category:Finnish television news shows
 * Category:French news television series‎ to Category:French television news shows
 * Category:German news television series‎ to Category:German television news shows
 * Category:Greek news television series‎ to Category:Greek television news shows
 * Category:Hong Kong news television series‎ to Category:Hong Kong television news shows
 * Category:Indonesian news television series‎ to Category:Indonesian television news shows
 * Category:Irish news television programmes to Category:Irish television news shows
 * Category:Israeli news and current affairs television programmes‎ to Category:Israeli television news shows
 * Category:Italian news television series‎ to Category:Italian television news shows
 * Category:Japanese news television series‎ to Category:Japanese television news shows
 * Category:Malaysian news television series‎ to Category:Malaysian television news shows
 * Category:Mexican news television series‎ to Category:Mexican television news shows
 * Category:New Zealand news television series‎ to Category:New Zealand television news shows
 * Category:Norwegian news television series‎ to Category:Norwegian television news shows
 * Category:Pakistani news television series‎ to Category:Pakistani television news shows
 * Category:Philippine news series to Category:Philippine television news shows
 * Category:Polish news television series‎ to Category:Polish television news shows
 * Category:Romanian news television series‎ to Category:Romanian television news shows
 * Category:Russian news television series‎ to Category:Russian television news shows
 * Category:Singaporean news television series‎ to Category:Singaporean television news shows
 * Category:South African news television series‎ to Category:South African television news shows
 * Category:South Korean news television programmes to Category:South Korean television news shows
 * Category:Spanish news television series‎ to Category:Spanish television news shows
 * Category:Swedish news television series‎ to Category:Swedish television news shows
 * Category:Taiwanese news television series‎ to Category:Taiwanese television news shows
 * Category:Ukrainian news television series‎ to Category:Ukrainian television news shows
 * Category:Venezuelan news television series‎ to Category:Venezuelan television news shows


 * Nominator's rationale: "Television news series" is a quite awkward term (I'd almost say neologism) that seems to be inspired by using the scheme set by as a passepartout for all genres. "Television news series" isn't an acknowledged synonym per News program. I doubt that it is widely understood (at least not correctly) rather resonating with special interests series, Infotainment or even.
 * Now the choice of "Television news shows" isn't obvious. While "Television news programmes‎" has some precedent (see ), and while "Television news programs" is most common on Google and the [ Library of Congress subject heading], we're trying to avoid words with spelling variants per WP:ENGVAR. I'm therefore proposing "Television news shows", which renders quite some Google hits including on Google books and which is broad enough to encompass and Breakfast television/morning shows.
 * Note that for now I'm not proposing a switch from using demonyms (like "French television news shows" or "Spanish television news shows") to country names (like "Television news shows of France" or "Television news shows of Spain") as I want to get the more obvious problem fixed first. --PanchoS (talk) 17:29, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Addition: Note that this also avoids the ambiguity of "news television" which tends to refer only to dedicated news channels, while "television news" encompasses both programs on news channels and news programs on general-interest channels. It also brings the categories into line with parent . --PanchoS (talk) 18:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

News television series: Survey and discussion

 * Oppose, I don't see how there's a problem here that requires us to rearrange two words. There's no confusion here as to what the current category means, and I don't see why the proposed name is less awkward when it actually inserts the descriptive modifier "news" in the middle of the underlying noun "television series". One could then more easily confuse "television news" to be the subject of these shows, such as programming on E! or the TV Guide channel. I'm also perplexed by the arbitrary choice of "shows" when "series" is by far the dominant term used in our category structure, with "programmes" second. I'm not necessarily opposed to a proper rename, but I think this particular issue should have been discussed in a better and wider forum first to gauge support (including for the idea that there's even a problem to be solved here) and better alternatives. It seems at best like unnecessary work, and at worst would involve a loss of clarity. postdlf (talk) 17:59, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * "in a better and wider forum?" CfD is the best and widest forum we have for discussing categories. --PanchoS (talk) 18:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Alt rename, the articles in the category generally mention something with news program(me) so Category:Television news programs or Category:Television news programmes seem the better choices for a new category name. I don't see why ENGVAR issues would make us avoid using the term program(me) in a category name. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * * I'm fine with your alternative proposal. Should I add it as a variant, or do you think it'd be better to restart the CfD? --PanchoS (talk) 23:31, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd say just keep it the way it is now. People have the room here to (dis)agree with any of the proposed variants and to come up with other alternatives. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:20, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Relisting comment: It would be helpful if the nominator would add a full list of the alternative names.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Object -- Calling everything a "show" is an Americanism. The categories with other names, such as the British one (which reflects British usage) should be kept.  Where American usage is prevalent, I have no objection to renaming.  However Category:Television news programmes with American subcats using "programs", as suggested by Marcocapelle is probably the best solution.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:06, 17 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Albums produced by MSTRKRFT

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Albums produced by Masterkraft (producer). Marcocapelle (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Albums produced by MSTRKRFT to Category:Albums produced by Masterkraft or Category:Albums produced by Masterkraft (producer)
 * Nominator's rationale: The producer is known as Masterkraft and not MSTRKRFT.  Versace1608   Wanna Talk? 13:49, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Looking at the edit history, this category was originally located at . The problem is that Masterkraft the producer does not actually have a Wikipedia article at all, but instead the title Masterkraft exists only as a redirect to MSTRKRFT the band — so the category was then erroneously albeit in good faith moved to this spelling. But the producer is a different person from the band, so this should never have happened at all. However, by the same token whereby a film director does not get a "Films directed by So-and-so" category regardless of how many of the films have articles already until he or she also has a WP:BLP which properly demonstrates and sources his or her own independent notability, a category for "Albums produced by Masterkraft" should not exist until Masterkraft actually has an article — because if this is moved back to the producer's correct spelling while that spelling still exists as a redirect to the band instead of an article about the producer, then in all likelihood somebody will eventually recommit the same error again. Delete, unless somebody is ready and willing to tackle an article about the producer. A proper article now exists about the producer, so rename per nom. Bearcat (talk) 17:48, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I was able to find reliable sources about the producer and will create an article as soon as possible.  Versace1608   Wanna Talk? 18:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I created an article about Masterkraft and it can be accessed at Masterkraft (producer). I'd would appreciate a redirect of this category to its rightful title. Thanks in Advance.  Versace1608   Wanna Talk? 22:05, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional Okhrana agents

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:58, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Fictional Okhrana agents
 * Nominator's rationale: Per the spirit of WP:C1, an unpopulated category
 * There is only one article in this category, Karla, and it is miscategorized. According to that article, Karla was not a member of Okhrana but his father was. (The Okhrana were a spy agency in Czarist Russia.) No objection to recreating this later if we get up to 5 or so true articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:01, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: Notified Dietic as the category creator and this discussion has been included in WikiProject Russia. – RevelationDirect (talk) 11:01, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Suggest merge to Category:Fictional Russian agents, which does not seem to exist, perhaps because the successor category would be Category:Fictional Soviet agents. I suspect that we have such a category, but I have failed to find it.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:11, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The one article is already in Category:Fictional KGB agents, so no merge needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Medical and health organizations by medical specialty

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: discussion merged to Categories for discussion/Log/2016 April 14. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Medical and health organizations by medical specialty to Category:Specialised medical and health organizations
 * Propose merging Category:Medical and health organizations by medical condition to Category:Specialised medical and health organizations
 * Nominator's rationale: Proposal to merge Category:Medical and health organizations by medical condition and Category:Medical and health organizations by medical specialty into one new category Rathfelder (talk) 18:03, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Commment (leaning against) - I started these categories, I suppose. (1) While there is arguably some overlap here, the two categories are not perfectly contiguous.  "Medical condition" includes things like malaria, stuttering, obesity, not all of which are really considered "medical specialties".  Similarly, "medical specialty" includes things that are definitely not medical conditions, like broad categories such as "pathology" and "radiology" and "bioethics" and "forensics" and "hospices".  It still seems to me better to have two separate categories than just lump them all together. I'm not sure why, if lumping them together, we wouldn't just upmerge to Category:Medical and health organizations.  (Except that I created these subcategories to usefully separate the various disease and professional specialty groups.) (2) If, however, the wisdom of the crowd votes to lump them together, then I would suggest a different name.  First, I pause to note that you are spelling "organization" with English but "Specialised" with UK spelling. Second,  "category:Specialized medical and health organizations" doesn't really explain that they're organized by specialty.  Anyway, my 2c. --Lquilter (talk) 22:23, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Female Biography

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: move headnote to article and delete category. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting female biography


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OC category for a biographical dictionary, serving only to contain that dictionary's compiler and a master list of the women biographied in it -- so with just two entries, it's also a WP:SMALLCAT. Adding all the articles about all the individual women who are named in the list would not be appropriate, as it would not constitute a WP:DEFINING characteristic of those women -- and in practice, this has a tendency to get misused as a catchall for any biographical article about a woman, even if she isn't actually profiled in the eponymous work for which it was intended. Comparable categories for other biographical dictionaries (e.g. ) exist in project space to contain worklists, not in article space to contain biographical articles about the people biographied in them. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 17:35, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Merge the headnote to the list article then Delete. The whole subject is about the compiler of a 19th century biographical dictionary and those included in it.  This is not enough to make up a useful category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Plant articles needing images

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Wikipedia requested images of plants‎. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:00, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Plant articles needing images to Category:Plant articles requesting images
 * Nominator's rationale: The word "need" doesn't describe what this category is used for. The articles in this category are requesting pictures; they don't require or need them. Anarchyte  (work  &#124; talk )   10:18, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Most other subcats of Category:Wikipedia requested images of biology use the format Category:Wikipedia requested images of plants‎. DexDor(talk) 11:41, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to the change to the commonest wording, but it still seems a bit odd to me: articles don't request anything, editors do; the categories should be named "... articles with image requests". By the way, there are other categories with the same style as plants, e.g. Category:Bird articles needing images and Category: Gastropod articles needing images with over 22,000 entries. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:37, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I see that my comment above may not be clear: I oppose Category:Plant articles requesting images but would not oppose Category:Wikipedia requested images of plants. If the change is made, the preferred parameter in WikiProject Plants should be changed to yes. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:37, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

On the matter of image-requested, WP:CFD is not the place for that (the template's own talk page, or the talk page for the WikiProject, would be much better), and please note that in cases like these, where a category is populated according to the yes/no setting of a parameter in a WikiProject banner template, the name of the category is independent of the name of the parameter that triggers inclusion in that cat. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:02, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose Category:Plant articles requesting images, not consistent with any existing categories. Support Category:Wikipedia requested images of plants‎, for consistency's sake. I don't necessarily object to other possible names, but naming should be consistent across the categories of organisms lacking images. Plantdrew (talk) 20:24, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose Current name communicates the idea quite well, and yes, the articles do need images. First Light (talk) 16:10, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * REname -- Category:Wikipedia requested images of plants, as the best option available. I assume that this is an administrative (talk-page) category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename to per WP:C2C for consistency with parent cat  and most of its immediate subcats.
 * It is the place for this to be raised, because pages are added to the category by the template, not manually, so implementing the change requires the template to be edited. To aid editors, maximum consistency is desirable. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:03, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In the template, the category is set by NOTE_3_CAT, and the name of the parameter that is used to trigger that category is set by note 3. The values of these are independent of each other. We discuss the former here, not the latter. -- Red rose64 (talk) 00:07, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.