Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 April 26



Category:Regional American culture

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Regional American culture to Category:Culture of the United States by region
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename to be consistent with other container categories ("X by Y") and reflect that this category includes child categories related to the United States in particular (e.g. Category:Northern Mariana Islands culture) and not categories related to the American continent in general. Ibadibam (talk) 22:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * keep 'American' here, as throughout WP, refers to the people of the United States and no one else and to just the United States not other political entities in North or South America.  This is a subcat of Category:American culture which is solely about the United States.  Current name is correct for WP.  Hmains (talk) 17:31, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose American in Wikipedia means the United States, the name is correct.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:28, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1956 establishments in Tanzania

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: deleted by user request. Ricky81682 (talk) 06:23, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 1956 establishments in tanzania


 * Nominator's rationale: Tanzania didn't exist in 1956 Rathfelder (talk) 20:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Since the category is currently empty, I suppose the former content has been moved to Category:1956 establishments in Tanganyika, right? In that case support per nom. 21:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC) (Marcocapelle (talk) 07:57, 27 April 2016 (UTC))
 * Delete: I'm the creator of the Category; the point was to categorize Ifakara Health Institute, which someone has since categorized under Category:1956 establishments in Tanganyika. - Paul2520 (talk) 00:11, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1950s establishments in Tanzania

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy deleted. Ricky81682 (talk) 06:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 1950s establishments in tanzania


 * Nominator's rationale: Tanzania not created until 1964 Rathfelder (talk) 19:38, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete: Good point. I started the category, and didn't realize that at the time. - Paul2520 (talk) 00:12, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Speedy DeleteTanzania didn't exist in the 1950's and the category creator agrees with this nomination. No need for lengthy TFD....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 09:49, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

More subtypes of incest

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk 00:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting cousincest


 * Propose merging cousincest in mythology


 * Nominator's rationale: following recent precedent at Categories for discussion/Log/2016 April 14. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:08, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reopened that discussion and relisted it at Categories for discussion/Log/2016 April 28. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:05, 29 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The creator of this category . – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:27, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: Following the recent creation of similar categories by new accounts, I have opened an SPI enquiry into those accounts here. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Update: the editor admitted to using multiple accounts, and that one has now been blocked. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:05, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete both. These are neologisms that are not found in reliable dictionaries and if sources do not describe the mythological relationships as incest (or cousincest), then neither should we. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:22, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per my comments on the cited prior discussion. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:10, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per my comments in the previous discussion. I'm not convinced we should merge the second one, since I don't think they were considered incestual relationships. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Alt rename to and . I agree with all your points: it's a neologism, and these were (and mostly still are) not considered incestuous. However, the topic is still relevant and sufficiently distinct, so there's no reason to purge it altogether. --PanchoS (talk) 06:36, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename per Pancho. Ninefive6 (talk) 13:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename per PanchoS. Cousin relationships are not legally considered incest in most of the world (some US states are principal exception). Given that, any title containing "incest" is not globally valid. And cousincest is simply a questionable neologism. SJK (talk) 00:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, don't fancy a rename, cousin relationship is a pretty trivial characteristic, there is no article about it either (except for a redirect to Cousin marriage). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:17, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Upon reflection, I agree with Marcocapelle on the proposed rename, which was made after my !vote was already written. I'm not sure that cousin relationships is a distinct topic as such. There is WP article on it, as noted. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed, we currently don't have a main article, but beyond the current content, certainly more can be added, including Cousin relationships between British monarchs and consorts, Cousin marriage, possibly Parallel and cross cousins and Coefficient of relationship. Also, Category:Incest in film and Category:Incest in mythology might be full of miscategorized articles that would better fit in (in film/mythology). If we don't have a corresponding non-incest category, these articles will end up being added to the incest categories again and again. --PanchoS (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Well into the 19th-century cousin marriage was common throughout the United States, and remains legal in many parts. In some cultures the marriage of first cousins is down-right encouraged. Even where it technically meets the definition of incest (sexual relations between two individuals too closely related to marry) it rarely is considered to be true incest, the term is normally reserved for sex between parents and children or between siblings. I do not think there is evidence it is a distinct category of things, and at times our understanding of the sources might interpret as first cousins those who actually are second or third cousins.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Merge/delete - just because somebody added this to the urban dictionary or tv tropes doesn't mean we should categorise by it. - jc37 09:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Secession

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. I will retain redirects on the "secession" categories. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:15, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession by country‎ to Category:Separatism by country‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Algeria‎ to Category:Separatism in Algeria‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Angola‎ to Category:Separatism in Angola‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Australia‎ to Category:Separatism in Australia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Azerbaijan‎ to Category:Separatism in Azerbaijan‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Bangladesh‎ to Category:Separatism in Bangladesh‎


 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Belgium‎ to Category:Separatism in Belgium‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Bosnia and Herzegovina‎ to Category:Separatism in Bosnia and Herzegovina‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Brazil‎ to Category:Separatism in Brazil‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Cameroon‎ to Category:Separatism in Cameroon‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Canada‎ to Category:Separatism in Canada‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in China‎ to Category:Separatism in China‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Colombia‎ to Category:Separatism in Colombia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Croatia‎ to Category:Separatism in Croatia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the Czech Republic‎ to Category:Separatism in the Czech Republic‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the Democratic Republic of the Congo‎ to Category:Separatism in the Democratic Republic of the Congo‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Denmark‎ to Category:Separatism in Denmark‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Equatorial Guinea‎ to Category:Separatism in Equatorial Guinea‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Ethiopia‎ to Category:Separatism in Ethiopia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in France‎ to Category:Separatism in France‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Georgia (country) to Category:Separatism in Georgia (country)
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Germany‎ to Category:Separatism in Germany‎
 * Propose merging Category:Secession in India‎ to Category:Separatism in India‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Indonesia‎ to Category:Separatism in Indonesia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Iran‎ to Category:Separatism in Iran‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Iraq‎ to Category:Separatism in Iraq‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the Isle of Man‎ to Category:Separatism in the Isle of Man‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Italy‎ to Category:Separatism in Italy‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Japan‎ to Category:Separatism in Japan‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Kenya‎ to Category:Separatism in Kenya‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Lebanon‎ to Category:Separatism in Lebanon‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Malaysia‎ to Category:Separatism in Malaysia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Mali‎ to Category:Separatism in Mali‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Mexico‎ to Category:Separatism in Mexico‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Moldova‎ to Category:Separatism in Moldova‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Morocco‎ to Category:Separatism in Morocco‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Mozambique‎ to Category:Separatism in Mozambique‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Myanmar‎ to Category:Separatism in Myanmar‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Namibia‎ to Category:Separatism in Namibia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the Netherlands‎ to Category:Separatism in the Netherlands‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in New Zealand‎ to Category:Separatism in New Zealand‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Nigeria‎ to Category:Separatism in Nigeria‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Pakistan‎ to Category:Separatism in Pakistan‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Papua New Guinea‎ to Category:Separatism in Papua New Guinea‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the Philippines‎ to Category:Separatism in the Philippines‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Poland‎ to Category:Separatism in Poland‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Portugal‎ to Category:Separatism in Portugal‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Russia‎ to Category:Separatism in Russia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Saint Kitts and Nevis‎ to Category:Separatism in Saint Kitts and Nevis‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Serbia‎ to Category:Separatism in Serbia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Senegal‎ to Category:Separatism in Senegal‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Somalia‎ to Category:Separatism in Somalia‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in South Africa‎ to Category:Separatism in South Africa‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Spain to Category:Separatism in Spain
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Sri Lanka‎ to Category:Separatism in Sri Lanka‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Sudan‎ to Category:Separatism in Sudan‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Sweden‎ to Category:Separatism in Sweden‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Syria‎ to Category:Separatism in Syria‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Turkey‎ to Category:Separatism in Turkey‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Ukraine‎ to Category:Separatism in Ukraine‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the United Kingdom‎ to Category:Separatism in the United Kingdom‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in the United States‎ to Category:Separatism in the United States‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Secession in Yemen‎ to Category:Separatism in Yemen‎


 * Nominator's rationale: rename, while secession may be the goal of separatism, the goal hasn't been achieved (yet) in the above categories. These categories are about separatism ("work in progress") rather than about secession ("goal achieved"). This is a follow-up nomination after this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment I have removed the Cypriot category from the above list. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose‎. Per our current article on separatism, the definition does not only include secession movements. It covers autonomy movements, racial separatism or segregation movements, religious separation movements who want to gain independence from a wider religious group, and separatist feminism and queer nationalism supporters who think they should form a separate community or ethnic group based on their gender or sexuality. Somehow, I don't think we should redefine the category to include these kind of movements. Dimadick (talk) 08:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Why not? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:49, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose: If you separate from pre-existing country Foo, you secede. I agree with Dimadick that "separatism" adds all sorts of extra things which complicate the overall utility of the category.—Brigade Piron (talk) 21:46, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * For the record, I also disagree with the nom's characterisation of the linguistic issue. The Katanga secession failed, yet is never refered to as the Katanga separation for example.—Brigade Piron (talk) 21:48, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Should this nomination fail, there is no reason why we wouldn't create the tree at a parent level. After purging from content that fails the definition of actual Secession, we will then have dozens of categories falling empty or being nominated per WP:SMALLCAT. We can go that route just as well, but the more diligent approach might be the nominator's proposal. --PanchoS (talk) 06:54, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Per our current article on Separatism, secession is merely the ultimate goal of secessionists. A secession may fail, and may still be called "secession", but in most cases these movements are far too weak to even wage a secession. Mostly they even are mischaracterized as being "secessionist", when in fact they represent the typical spectrum between seeking decentralization, autonomy, confederalism or secession. I'm not against subcategories wherever there is enough content that is correctly characterized as actually waging secession. But for the vast majority of cases,  is more correct and more useful.
 * Support. At the risk of expanding the scope of this category to encourage the creation of more articles on frivolous fringe movements, "secession" refers to completed legal separation of one polity from another. Many articles under these categories refer to academic ideas or small groups which propose separation on some grounds, but which group(s) and what boundary exists to separate one group for another, is not clear. That's separatism, not secession. Shrigley (talk) 02:59, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See also the related discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2016 May 30. --PanchoS (talk) 13:22, 2 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Support. Actual secession is infrequent enough that it would have obvious WP:SMALLCAT problems throughout the tree. Expanding the scope to include separatism in general will fix that concern. ~ RobTalk 00:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hiroshima Carp players

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. While this is a small category, it's part of an overall categorization scheme. This is an explicit exception listed in WP:SMALLCAT. Those supporting the existing categorization scheme were not convinced by the perceived minor nature of the name change. (non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk 00:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Hiroshima Carp players to Category:Hiroshima Toyo Carp players
 * Nominator's rationale: The team was known as the "Hiroshima Carp" from 1949 until 1967. In 1968 "Toyo", the name of the main sponsor, was added in the middle of the name. This is a minor name change to the club and does not warrant separate categories for players depending on what year they played. (As a side note, the corresponding category on the Japanese Wikipedia is "Hiroshima Toyo Carp and Hiroshima Carp players") Only four articles were listed in the category and three were also included in the "Toyo" category. I have already taken the liberty of moving/removing them so that the category is currently empty. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:13, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep and rebuke WP Baseball consensus is that players categorized by the name of the teams they played for. Minor league teams regularly change names. Take for instance Oklahoma City. That franchise has played under the names Indians, 89ers, and RedHawks. There are categories for players who played for each of those names. At least one player in the Hiroshima Carp category played for the team long before the name change was done. He was never a Hiroshima Toyo Carp player. His article shouldn't reflect something he never did.
 * Please also note the nominator of this category for deletion emptied the nominated category. That is inappropriate behavior when nominating a category for deletion or merging. I have refilled Hiroshima Carp again but the nominator only knows if there are more articles that need to be put back....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Your Oklahoma City example is an entirely different scenario. The Indians folded five years before the 89ers were formed, so they are completely different organizations. Looking at the article of the latter organization, subsequent name changes seemed to accompany changes in stadium, ownership or the league they played in.
 * But in Hiroshima's case there was no change to the organization other than the sponsor's name (a company that had long been a shareholder in the team) being inserted into the name. Today, despite "Toyo" being in the official name, it is omitted in the majority of news articles, both English and Japanese. An argument could be made pursuant to WP:COMMONNAME that the "Toyo" could be removed, but that is a separate issue. In any case, separate categories based on when the sponsor/owner claimed naming rights still seems unnecessary to me. Further, I can't see why the rules that apply to the categorisation of American minor league players have to apply gospel to a Japanese team.
 * On the other issue of emptying the category, I can't remember how I even came across the category, but I discovered the category of four articles inside a larger category of approximately 160. It seemed unnecessary based on the history of the club as a whole, so I made what I considered an uncontroversial move. After being left with an empty category that I consider superfluous, I looked into how to have it deleted. I expressly mentioned the removal of the four articles in the nomination so that it could be undone if it was improper. So the "please note" paragraph and the calling for a "rebuke" seem a bit unwarranted, but I thank you for restoring the articles to the category. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 04:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:02, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per standard practice for baseball team name changes. Spanneraol (talk) 15:24, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hiroshima Carp

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus per the above. (non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk 00:35, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Hiroshima Carp to Category:Hiroshima Toyo Carp
 * Nominator's rationale: The above "players" sub-category is the only thing listed in this category. If the above category is deleted, this will become empty and should be deleted also. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 02:13, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.