Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 27



Category:Checkuser requests to be listed
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 September 6%23Category:Checkuser requests to be listed

Category:Programs acquired by ABS-CBN

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:27, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting programs acquired by abs-cbn


 * Nominator's rationale: I don't understand what this category is about. This is not Category:ABS-CBN shows but some odd subset of shows that were "acquired" by ABS-CBN. Further, I can't find a source in any of these articles about how they were "acquired" by a particular network. It seems like it's listing broadcasts but that categorization would drive almost every television article into complete overcategorization chaos. Ricky81682 (talk) 21:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. WP:OCAT.  We should only categorize shows by original broadcaster.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Surreal Life participants

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure)  SST  flyer  06:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting the surreal life participants


 * Nominator's rationale: Like other categories on this page this category is not for people who became known through being on a reality show but for people who were already known before appearing in it. We should not categorize them in this manner. Mars Felix (talk) 18:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:PERFCAT.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:30, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Association of American Universities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure)  SST  flyer  06:06, 8 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Association of American Universities to Category:Members of the Association of American Universities
 * Nominator's rationale: Per previous precedent at CfD, university association categories have been renamed to clarify they are referring to membership, not a relationship to the topic in itself. Regards, James (talk/contribs) 15:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete none of the universities are notable/defined for membership in this organization. We categorize on what is defining; there are numerous organizations encompassing universities but rarely are they notable. See, e.g., Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_December_1 which we deleted. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not an accreditation body, only a trade organization and it doesn't seem defining. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:24, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete -- as we have done for numerous other university associations. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:24, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename/keep: This is indeed defining. Neutralitytalk 05:53, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! contestants

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:37, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting i'm a celebrity...get me out of here! contestants


 * Propose deleting ich bin ein star – holt mich hier raus! contestants


 * Propose deleting i'm a celebrity...get me out of here! (uk) contestants


 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT Rob Sinden (talk) 13:59, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Support - these people are celebrities separate from the shows and shouldn't be categorized for being on the show. Mars Felix (talk) 17:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete performer by performance. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:38, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:PERFCAT unless what I said below regarding Category:Strictly Come Dancing participants happens, in which case place the UK contestants is some kind of new category. It's also worth noting that most celebrity reality series have a navigation template and a list, which I think is better than having a category in these cases. anemone  projectors  17:53, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete -- it inevitably fails PERFCAT. We have that to prevent category clutter.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Only Way Is Essex cast members

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge to Category:Participants in British reality television series. -- Tavix ( talk ) 17:10, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting the only way is essex cast members


 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT Rob Sinden (talk) 13:59, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Question - it appears that the project does categorize people who are on reality shows who are not or were not otherwise famous before their participation and regardless of what other things they may additionally become known for. See for instance the contents of Category:Participants in British reality television series which includes this category. Am I correct in thinking that such categories are acceptable for those whose primary reason for fame is the reality show but not acceptable when they were famous or known before their reality show participation? Mars Felix (talk) 17:59, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Should it be upmerged to that category then? Appearance on a specific show is a performance, but if they are solely notable for being a reality show contestant, then the more general parent category would be the WP:DEFINING category, in the same way that we categorise people as Category:Actors but not by the films or shows they appeared in.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:02, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Category:Participants in British reality television series should probably be purged of the celebrities per WP:PERFCAT also. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep as I believe everyone in the category can claim TOWIE as their original claim to fame, therefore it is defining. Unless, as discussed above, Category:Participants in British reality television series is purged of celebrities and kept only for people who became famous through (non-celebrity) reality TV, and then this should be upmerged to that. anemone  projectors  17:42, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:Participants in British reality television series. Changed my mind. I think this category should contain all (and only) people who became famous through British reality TV. anemone  projectors  12:05, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:Participants in British reality television series which in turn may be upmerged to Category:British television personalities where we do not need to bother about the difference between professional and 'lay' TV personalities. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - all of the people in this cat became known through this show. It is certainly defining for every one of them. Jim Michael (talk) 21:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The parent category would be the WP:DEFINING category. There isn't a Category:Eastenders cast members, even though a lot of people are famous just for being in Eastenders.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:39, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The parent cat would include various people, including those who didn't become famous through reality TV because they were already famous for other things, such as an acting career. Every one of the people in this cat would be routinely described as TOWIE participants, not more vaguely as reality TV participants. People becoming famous through reality TV is a relatively new thing. Jim Michael (talk) 17:57, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It would not be defining for those who were notable or famous before their reality TV appearance, so they should not be included in the parent category. anemone  projectors  09:20, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete This is a performer by performanc category, something that our guidelines explicitly discourage.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:33, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Except for the fact that they're real people in real storylines - not performers doing performances. Jim Michael (talk) 21:34, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Reality television is not "real people in real storylines", it is non-trained people acting in ways that are meant to have the aura of being more authentic, or competition that is just plain competition. Either way, it is form of casting, they are described as cast members, and so performance, and so we should not categorize by a particular show.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:05, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say that TOWIE members are acting - there's no script and the storylines are real. The show is not a competition. The cat should be renamed, because they're not cast members or actors - they're real people who live in and around Brentwood. Jim Michael (talk) 18:48, 4 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Strictly Come Dancing participants

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. If someone is up for the task, they can go though the professinals at List of Strictly Come Dancing contestants and make sure they're in the relevant dancer category(ies). -- Tavix  ( talk ) 17:01, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting strictly come dancing participants


 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT. Rob Sinden (talk) 13:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - this looks to be something of a hybrid category, containing people who were famous before going on the show and people who became famous through their appearance on it. Would it be advisable to change the category name to something that reflects that it should only be used for the people who gained their fame from the show? Mars Felix (talk) 18:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Would they not be categorised in one of the subcategories of Category:Dancers? That would be the WP:DEFINING category in my mind.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the suggestion regarding The Only Way Is Essex above is a really good one, therefore I say purge this of "celebrities" who were famous before appearing on the show, and upmerge the rest to Category:Participants in British reality television series. Though I wonder if there's scope for a subcategory for just "celebrities" who have appeared in British reality TV series, keeping them separate from "civilians". anemone  projectors  17:50, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - changed my mind. I agree with Peterkingiron that the professional dancers should be categorised as dancers, not reality tv participants. However, post-deletion, List of Strictly Come Dancing contestants should be moved to the parent categories. We still have "winners" categories to deal with as well. anemone  projectors  12:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * DElete -- PERFCAT.  The professional dancers should be in a dancer category.  The celebs (if really such) will be notable for other reasons.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:19, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:British dancers or a subcategory of it. I presume professional dancers will be in there already, lay dancers may be added if dancing is their main reason of notability. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:28, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete another performer by performance category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:33, 28 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nonexistent or unplayable musical instruments

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:35, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nonexistent or unplayable musical instruments


 * Nominator's rationale: delete as we don't categorize things by what they are not. See also this earlier discussion which is still open. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:09, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete An odd mixture of fictional animal instruments, bells that are not rung, and a historical instrument we don't have the design for. There may be a category in there somewhere (or not) but this WP:OCMISC grab bag doesn't aid navigation. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:28, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete after ensuring that nothing will be orphaned. It is too miscellaneous to be worthwhile.  Perhaps upmerge.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:17, 31 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Historical Figures from Kavajë

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Historical Figures from Kavajë into Category:People from Kavajë
 * Nominator's rationale: "historical figure" is undefined, we don't have any other historical figure categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Merge – per nom. Oculi (talk) 06:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia categories named after presidents

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: renamed. Pinging to implement the proposed broadening. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 12:53, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Wikipedia categories named after presidents to Category:Wikipedia categories named after heads of state
 * Nominator's rationale: It would make sense to broaden this to cover all heads of states so that it can parallel . If renamed, it would need to be re-parented and populated with non-presidential heads of state, which I am happy to do. Yes, the proposed category could just be created and populated as a parent category of the nominated one, but frankly, I don't see the point of having both since these are administrative categories only. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:24, 27 July 2016 (UTC)


 * If we made the change, categories like Category:Elizabeth II and many other heads of state (kings, queens, sultans, emperors, party general secretaries, generalissimos, and what-have-you), would belong, which may not be a bad thing, since "president" is a shared name IMHO, but just wanted to point out the expansion likely. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: we have Category:Wikipedia_categories_named_after_royalty, nearly all the children categories of which would be added to the newly named one above but not all (so we cannot just add this as a child category) such as Category:Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, and several others like her husband, his son, and daughter-in-law all of whom with categories... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yup, I was anticipating the expansion to include non-presidential heads of state, which include some, but not all, of those in Category:Wikipedia categories named after royalty. As you say, the presidential one is just kind of a categorization by shared name. Presidential heads of state vary greatly in their actual role and level of power. But the one thing that they do have in common is that they are heads of state. Renaming will also prevent non-head of state presidents from being added, such as presidents of corporations or associations. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:47, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment -- This is tagged as a container and maintenance category, What is its purpose?  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This comes up every time one of these is discussed. It was created largely because some users objected to, for instance, appearing as a subcategory of, presumably because not everything contained in  is a president of Cuba. I understand the reasoning but find it to be a bit pedantic and surely perplexing to the average reader. Why they are admin categories, I don't really know, though someone recently suggested they were made admin categories as a "sop" to those who wanted them to be deleted. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Neutral I said my peace on how much I don't find these categories useful here. If the people that see value with this tree want to make changes, I don't want to get in the way. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:35, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Tim! (talk) 12:31, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Rename the current name is a shared name one. The President of Israel and the President of the US do not really have a shared position. Arguably the current name is also ambiguous. On its face presidents of companies among other things could in theory be put here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.