Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 October 20



AEL Limassol F.C.

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories for discussion/Log/2016 November 13 with links to article names. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:16, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:AEL FC managers to Category:AEL Limassol F.C. managers
 * Nominator's rationale: The team was commonly known as AEL Limassol (uefa.com), with a Greek team also called themselves AEL FC from Larissa (which common name was disputed, UEFA use Larissa FC, the club just use AEL, media use AE Larissa and other combination) Nevertheless, the current category system was for the Cyprus club, which should be moved to distinguish the two clubs (a rough inspection, seem most of the wasn't mis-cated). Matthew_hk   t  c  15:13, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I also nominated
 * Category:AEL FC players to Category:AEL Limassol F.C. players
 * Category:AEL BC players to Category:AEL Limassol B.C. players (A.E. Larissa from Greek also have basketball section) Matthew_hk   t  c  15:15, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Matthew_hk   t  c  15:19, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Really we need separate articles about the football and basketball clubs... GiantSnowman 19:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Apostolic Nuncios to Naples

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories for discussion/Log/2016 November 13 with alternative for consistency. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:58, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Apostolic Nuncios to Naples to Category:Apostolic Nuncios to the Kingdom of Naples
 * Nominator's rationale: An opposed speedy. Original nomination suggested changing "Naples" to "Kingdom of Naples" per the parent category . A copy of the speedy nomination is included below. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Category:Apostolic Nuncios to Naples to Category:Apostolic Nuncios to the Kingdom of Naples – C2C per Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:51, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "Nuncios" should be decapitalized, also per Category:Apostolic nuncios. Brandmeistertalk  08:22, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Brandmeister: But cf the format of all of the subcategories! Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:46, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I Oppose. Please note that the best source on this issue, the Biaudet (Les nonciatures apostoliques permanentes jusqu'en 1648 ), always refers to it as "Naples" and never as "Kindgom of Naples". Actually at the time the system of nunciatures did not follow the formal nations, but the system of courts (in this case the court of the vice-king of Naples), being the King of Naples already served by the nunciature in Madrid. The same for Category:Apostolic Nuncios to Venice which is the correct name also according to the Biaudet (not "To Republic of Venice", which would be wrong) A ntv (talk) 10:00, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This might be one situation where a descriptive title would be more helpful than the actual title that was used. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:46, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment. The issue here is that Wikipedia is wrong more often by including the regime of a country directly in the name of an article instead of as a parenthesized disambiguator, e.g. Kingdom of Great Britain instead of Great Britain (kingdom). This is primarily a problem of article space though. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:37, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I opposed because the nunciature was not "to the Kingdom of Naples" but "to the court in Naples". The title "Nunciature to (of) Naples" is correct and is supported by scholars texts as the referred Biaudet, as well as the Karttunen. When the kingdom of Naples became the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, the nunciature of Naples continued. I suggest to stay stick to sources WP:STICKTOSOURCE. To change the title of such category is an historical error. A ntv (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go so far as to say it would introduce historical error. There are plenty of instances in history where names are applied retroactively to things that did not use that name at the time. We're not necessarily bound to following sources that are contemporary or closer to the events in question that we are. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:48, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Modern scholars may introduce new names, but this shall be done by scholars not by wikipedians (or it is WP:OR). I referred to the works of the Biaudet who published in 1910 his researches in the Vatican Archives for a period up to 1648: he was not contemporary or closer to the events in question. See also Origine e Carattere della Nunziatura di Napoli, 1523-1569 by Villani 1958, or the eminent Fonti per la Storia d'Italia: Nunziature di Napoli 1962. A ntv (talk) 22:33, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not doubting anything specific you have said, just the overgeneralized nature of your broader statements. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose (1) Brevity is a virtue for categories (2) there is no room for ambiguity, since the Pope did not send multiple ambassadors to the same place. This is in addition to the issues others have raised.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:39, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Art and Entertainment

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedied as empty category. Bearcat (talk) 02:22, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting art and entertainment


 * Nominator's rationale: Category created by an editor solely for their autobiography article, Seiyt. Drm310 (talk) 02:25, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Empty category, unclear scope. Dimadick (talk) 14:40, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * No debate necessary — in a case like this, we can just speedy delete the category as empty. Bearcat (talk) 02:22, 21 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fireworks festivals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename  Category:Fireworks shows to Category:Fireworks events, merge/rename the rest as listed in the alternative proposal below the relisting comment. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:38, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fireworks festivals into Category:Fireworks shows
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Asia into Category:Fireworks shows in Asia
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Europe into Category:Fireworks shows in Europe
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in North America into Category:Fireworks shows in North America
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Oceania into Category:Fireworks shows in Oceania
 * Nominator's rationale: from reading the articles, it seems virtually impossible to draw a line between 'fireworks festivals' and 'fireworks shows'. Neither fireworks festivals nor fireworks shows has a main article, we just have Fireworks with a section Fireworks celebrations throughout the world. I'm proposing to (re)name the categories after the top category Category:Fireworks shows but would also be fine with naming them Fireworks shows or Fireworks celebrations. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - Hello. This just popped up on my feed as I am considered article creator. I am fine with Marcocapelle's nomination, as I can see the sense in several arguments from several perspectives. Note I only created this category because I found a "Category:Firewors festivals in COUNTRY" category floating around somewhere, and felt I should expand the category. I looked, assuming it was Canada or the US that spurred me, but that cats have undergone some confusing name changes since then - I'll have to look around to find the orignal. The creator of that category might actually have some useful thoughts to contribute here. Earflaps (talk) 21:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: I think the original country cat might have been one of these now upmerged section here at categories for discussion. So I think might be beyond me to check w/out admin powers :/ Earflaps (talk) 22:01, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment – 'Shows' is not a good name, eg I hope there is no . There is and also . There is also . So I would suggest a rename of 'shows' to 'events' (to include 'competitions' and 'festivals', which might well be different) and leave the festivals alone. Oculi (talk) 22:19, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, so the alternative proposal is to merge Category:Fireworks shows into Category:Fireworks festivals without renaming the continent categories. I've tagged Category:Fireworks shows for that purpose as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose -- Neither "shows" nor "festivals" is wholly satisfactory, but "festivals" is better if anything. Some of the articles relate to annual events at which there is a firework display, for example at New Year or a national day.  Two articles relate to festivals of light at which there are displays.  Strictly they are "festivals with fireworks", rather than fireworks festivals.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * You don't oppose the merge, do you? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:01, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Fireworks display, according to the fireworks page, is a synonym for fireworks show. I wonder if that might work better than show, as it only denotes the visual, not the gathering of people, which could be left with the festival branch perhaps. Although not all gatherings are festivals, just like not all concerts are music festivals, so festival remains a vague category in this case. Earflaps (talk) 00:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * On the merge item, my vote should be reverse merge, for reasons given. I would not oppose Occuli's suggestion of "events", which is probably more neutral.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:36, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Agree that 'events' is the most neutral term. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:47, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: shows, festivals, events, or displays?

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 00:26, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So the discussion above has led to the following alternative:
 * Propose merging Category:Fireworks festivals and Category:Fireworks shows into Category:Fireworks events
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Asia into Category:Fireworks events in Asia
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Europe into Category:Fireworks events in Europe
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in North America into Category:Fireworks events in North America
 * Propose renaming Category:Fireworks festivals in Oceania into Category:Fireworks events in Oceania
 * Marcocapelle (talk) 06:55, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Now Support revised nom, for reasons in earlier discussion. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.